New kid on the block.

[Icarus]

Hello one and all. I am charged with the responsibility of introducing myself. Here goes.

I am a long term atheist, not a militant one even though I feel the urge sometimes. I can endure the theists but I cannot help but feel sorry for them and their grand delusions. That may be an indication of arrogance but i deny that charge. I do not consider myself the ultimate authority on the theory of everthing so I am open to becoming more informed.

I have been an active participant in various forums for quite some time. The defunct ATT, WWGHA, IGI, etc. HAF a long time ago.

Things that annoy me: People who are absolutely certain that the KJV is the inerrant word of god. (Almost none of those people have the slightest idea about the origin of the King James version or the manner in which it was dictated and vetted.), People who refuse to read books that might conflict with their beliefs, Grover Norquist, The Texas legislature....followed by Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee and lately North carolina. Faith healer, scum bag, charlatons like Benny Hin. People who picket (sometimes bomb) planned parenthood clinics. Missionaries who teach third world illiterates that they will burn in hell if they do not embrace jesus as their lord and saviour. Even though I am a Univ of Fla alumni, and a gator football fan, I resent Tim Tebow and his John 3:16 thing.  Most of all, not just annoyance but anger, at those people who in their heart of hearts believe atheists to be criminal miscreants with no sense of charity, kindness, or moral compass.

OK if that mini rant disqualifies me from participation, tell me now.  I have told you my innermost feelings as well as stating that I am not a millitant loudmouth. And one or two other things. I am a voracious reader of non fiction stuff. I might regale you with some of the things I have read, not necessarily religious stuff.. .In addition, I am as old as dirt so I have been around the block a few times.

[Crow]

Hi Icarus,

Is it just Christianity that you have the major gripe with? Also what made come back to HAF after the hiatus?


Welcome back.

[Recusant]

Hello and welcome back to HAF, Icarus. 

. . . believe atheists to be criminal miscreants . . .

Interesting choice of words. "Miscreant" in its original incarnation meant "non-Christian, pagan, infidel."

OK if that mini rant disqualifies me from participation, tell me now.

What follows is my opinion, and is not to be construed as a statement of HAF policy: I think that the underlying ethos of this site is exemplified by the fact that rule # 1 encourages members to remember to be civil. I understand this as applying to our conduct toward our fellow members, though overly abusive (and unsubstantiated, unjustified) sentiments expressed toward specific groups of people, including various stripes of theist, isn't particularly encouraged. In other words, I think that there was nothing against the rules of HAF in your post, especially considering that you gave what seemed to me to be a reasonable basis for your execration of certain personalities and types.

I hope that you enjoy your time reading and posting here.

[Icarus]

Oh no! I have no particular axe to grind with Xtians. There are enough other "faiths' to fill all the gaps.  Though my area is not necessarily a bible belt community, there are more christians than any other persuasion. Matter of fact I have several life long, cherished friends who are active christians. I respect them because they never try to proselytize. They respect me by not doing so. Life is good.  .

My OP said that I was angry with people who believe atheists to be the embodiment of Satan himself.  Withhout their knowledge or consent I tithe. Yes, tithe.  I buy groceries for down and out, honestly hungry people, with the tithe money. Not part of any organization or community program. I do it independently without telling anyone.(I am telling strangers in this case I suppose) I am a volunteer teacher for high school dropouts who are trying to earn their GED certificate. I also spent several years on a committee that disburses CDBG funds to various community needs. I do not need or want attaboys for any of these unselfish pursuits. That's why I am a bit cross at the slings and arrows thrown mostly by christians who ignorantly paint non believers with too broad a brush.

[xSilverPhinx]

My OP said that I was angry with people who believe atheists to be the embodiment of Satan himself.  Withhout their knowledge or consent I tithe. Yes, tithe.  I buy groceries for down and out, honestly hungry people, with the tithe money. Not part of any organization or community program. I do it independently without telling anyone.(I am telling strangers in this case I suppose) I am a volunteer teacher for high school dropouts who are trying to earn their GED certificate. I also spent several years on a committee that disburses CDBG funds to various community needs. I do not need or want attaboys for any of these unselfish pursuits. That's why I am a bit cross at the slings and arrows thrown mostly by christians who ignorantly paint non believers with too broad a brush.

Welcome Icarus!

Oh don't worry, you don't have to convince us that atheists can be good people...

[Sweetdeath]

Welcome ^^
Always looking forward to move new people on these forums.

[The Magic Pudding]

Hello

[OldGit]

Welcome back, Icarus.

[Icarus]

Answering Crow's question; what made me come back?  Whitney used to be a participant at ATT. She often mentioned HAF. A few my to my excursions to HAF revealed that it was clearly intended to be a civilized forum. Almost too constrained but still OK. Scanning this forums current  topic list, I can see that it has loosened up a bit while still maintaining a reasonable degree of decorum.

Another forum has not lost me but there are off putting problem members. One in particular stands out as a person who is voluminous as well as incessant with her writing, unbearably opinionated and invariably insulting. All that and she is clearly an educated person with a great deal of both general and subject specific knowledge. She has, alas, poisoned the well.

I will go back there because there are at least a few writers who exhibit enormous intellectual achievement. It is a pleasure to read their posts whether I agree or not. I suspect that some members here are also capable of grand esoteric dispensations..

[Guardian85]

Welcome, Icarus. Or should I say welcome back?

Don't worry about the occational rant. Everybody needs to let it out sometimes. We actually have a thread for that.

[markmcdaniel]

Welcome back. It sounds like you will add a lively voice to our discussions.

[Icarus]

Confession: I must do some more posts so that I can achieve my 10/50 status. I will regale you with the tales that reveal why I am a non believer. I've already told you that I am as old as dirt, so if the following chronology causes you surprise, don't be.

In the midst of the great depression. the thirties depression, I lived in a bible belt, tobacco farming, town in Georgia. My father moved around a lot in order to try to earn a living. That's why we happened to be in the bible belt, at least for a time. All little boys were presupposed to go to Sunday school if not church. So I was enrolled in a nearby Sunday school at the tender age of six.

The male teacher person continually said that our offerings were for god. I brought nickels for the offerings as a good boy would. Let it be known that five cents was not chump change in those days. Inquisitive little dude that I was, I wondered how the money was transported to god, Him being up in the sky and all. I asked the teacher that pointed question one fine day and he slapped my face for being impertinent. I got no answer about the transfer mechanism. I was thinking airplanes maybe. Innocent question gets me slapped, something wrong here.

Contemplating my stinging cheek and the apparent secretiveness about the answer, I began to think that these might be snake oil salesmen who only wanted my fathers desperately earned money. That was the beginning of my doubts. Even at that tender age, I knew that my little dog was an atheist because he did not know or care about someone who lived in the sky. Of course the dog did not know what words like atheist or agnostic meant. He only knew that he loved me and I loved him. No gods needed.

Later when I was a teen ager I lived in various foster homes. I was required to go to church as a condition of residence. OK no problem. I went to the church of my foster guardians. I paid attention in church and learned that  I had to be saved in the church of god or I would burn in hell.  Living in a different home that ascribed to the teachings of the Baptist faith, I learned that failure to be baptised in that baptist church was an assured route to hell. In the one case it was the COG that claimed my soul and in the other case it was the Baptists who insisted that the other outfit was sinfully wrong. Wait a dammed minute, I thought. Both these preachers can not be right. Either, one of them is lying, or maybe both of them, or maybe the whole deal is some sort of cruel scam, or maybe neither of them know what the hell they are preaching about.

I fell in love with the girl next door when I was sixteen. Her father was a church deacon. No way we could go to the movies on a date. Sure as hell could not go to the high school sock hop. (Sock hop: that is a school dance for you late model individuals). Of course I had to go to the girl friends church where I learned from the preacher, that I had original sin and that I would burn in hell if I did not repent and accept jesus as my lord and savior and that dancing was a vertical expression of a horizontal desire. HMMPH! I thought, like this clod does not have any desire...what is he a eunuch or something?

The last straw was a at another church where I was required to go to Sunday school. A very pretty young girl in the class rejected my invitations for a date, not even to buy her a coke at the local drug store. She steadfasty refused the offers from some of the other male students. Long story short, she worked in the church office part time. It came to pass that the 45 year old, and very much married, preacher man was regularly banging the pretty young girl.

The sum of all those episodes did it for me. I ain't going back to anyones church except for weddings and funerals of people I care about. I swear to you that I did not make all this stuff up. May the hammer of Thor strike if it not true.

Speaking of making stuff up, I will tell of the writings of a practically famous 1940s book author in a different post.

[Stevil]

That was an awesome read. You remember the great depression, far out!

[MadBomr101]

Nope.  Sorry.  I'm gonna have to call shenanigans on you.  You had me up until this part...

The last straw was a at another church where I was required to go to Sunday school. A very pretty young girl in the class rejected my invitations for a date, not even to buy her a coke at the local drug store. She steadfasty refused the offers from some of the other male students. Long story short, she worked in the church office part time. It came to pass that the 45 year old, and very much married, preacher man was regularly banging the pretty young girl.

Everybody knows clergymen only bang young boys.  It's practically a commandment.

Despite this, your age and experience suggest you have a lot to offer to a discussion board so welcome and post often.     

[Amicale]

Icarus, it's great to meet you. I truly enjoyed reading about your past experiences. My grandparents told me about growing up during the Great Depression (they were born in the mid to late 20s) and wow, what incredible stories they have - mostly of the true value of a nickel back then, family relations, the way religion invaded and informed their lives, and also the incredible lengths they went to, to have a date with one another.  So, thanks for your interesting perspective, sir, and hello!