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Old Testament Pfft, Jesus is the MAN!

Started by Stevil, May 11, 2012, 09:39:33 PM

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Stevil

We sometimes have Christians on this forum state that the OT was a bit crazy
But that the teaching of Jesus made up for that, with Jesus being Mr Perfect and all.

So, again finding myself alone in a hotel room, and hotel rooms invariably having Gideon's bible, I decided to read some.

I found this gem
From Matthew, this was a psycho-bable from Mr Perfect himself

"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' "For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.


So I would like to know, do Christian's starve to death? Those horrible pictures of starving kids in Africa, god is not providing, is this because they don't seek the kingdom of god?
Why am I overweight? I do not seek the kingdom of god.

Jesus also blurted out
"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you
For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.


So are these starving children not asking for food?

And what about when Jesus said
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow for tomorrow will worry about its own things, Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
What kind of crap advise is this, are we to max out our credit cards, hire purchase and the like and just get what we want for today?
What about the squirrels that save nuts for the winter months or the birds that build nests so that they can have babies in the future?
Why do we bother educating ourselves, for the joy of knowledge on that day?
Why do we build schools, hospitals, roads, stadiums, recycle stations, if not for our futures?


Can anyone explain the "wisdom" of Jesus here?

xSilverPhinx

I think the guy was a guy of his times, and preaching mainly to the poor who did have to struggle for their day to day survival. Good crutch, basically. Good meme in fertile ground.

But what about the quote where Jesus himself said that he had come to fulfill the OT or something like that?
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


AnimatedDirt

Quote from: Stevil on May 11, 2012, 09:39:33 PM
Can anyone explain the "wisdom" of Jesus here?

Obviously from the context you read it, it makes no sense.

If you read it in the context of a believer it makes perfect sense.

One must take into account many aspects of Jesus' words to gain their meaning.  The audience being one aspect.

When speaking about caring for others and/or the problems of the world, we have Commandments 5-10 which Christ says all the Law and the Prophets hang on these; Love God and love your neighbor.

Can God end starvation?  Yes.  Why doesn't He?  I don't know, I can't formulate an answer which would satisfy you, however what I can do is simply say that Christianity has failed to love their neighbor of which the evidence is clear.

Stevil

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 11, 2012, 10:36:10 PM
Can God end starvation?  Yes.  Why doesn't He? 
So if Jesus = god then did god break his promise when he stated
"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' "For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.


And yet Christians, whom seek the kingdom of god and his righteousness, starve to death because although god knows they need to eat and drink, and god has clearly promised to add those things to "you" (being the person seeking kingdom of god yadda yadda), god does not live up to this promise.
Was god lying, or has god since become incapable of fullfilling this need (e.g. died or sick or incapacitated), or is there no such thing as god?

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: Stevil on May 11, 2012, 10:46:38 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 11, 2012, 10:36:10 PM
Can God end starvation?  Yes.  Why doesn't He? 
So if Jesus = god then did god break his promise when he stated
"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' "For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.


And yet Christians, whom seek the kingdom of god and his righteousness, starve to death because although god knows they need to eat and drink, and god has clearly promised to add those things to "you" (being the person seeking kingdom of god yadda yadda), god does not live up to this promise.
Was god lying, or has god since become incapable of fullfilling this need (e.g. died or sick or incapacitated), or is there no such thing as god?

Difficult to answer.  I don't readily have the answer.  I accept I haven't all the answers.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 11, 2012, 10:36:10 PM
Can God end starvation?  Yes.  Why doesn't He?  I don't know . . .

I think "I don't know" is a better answer to the first question.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Ecurb Noselrub

There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

Stevil

#7
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 12, 2012, 04:44:15 AM
There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.
But

"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

This is a personal statement, not an address to humankind as a whole but to each individual.
The god is not providing food for the needy individual regardless if that individual seeks the kingdom of god.

God fails on his promise to the individuals.

The written word was "and all these things shall be added to you", not with the dependency that humanity sorts itself out with regards to food distribution.

And when the written word says
"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?'
Are you assuming this "not worry about what to eat" is with regards to food production and not food distribution?
So we are to worry about food distribution????

This poorly articulated statement has cost millions of lives, who wrote the bible? It wasn't the inspired word of god was it?

DeterminedJuliet

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 12, 2012, 04:44:15 AM
There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

Soooo, does this mean that if you give thanks before your meal, you should be giving thanks to the people who sent it to you and not God? Only seems fair. If God doesn't get the blame for people starving, he shouldn't get the thanks for people eating.
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Asmodean

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 12, 2012, 04:44:15 AM
There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.
If I hire some incompetent fool to manage my distribution department and not fire him when he demonstrates his incompetence and foolishness, then the failure is mine.

...So how exactly did your supposed god not fail?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Ali

QuoteSufficient for the day is its own trouble.

I've actually always liked that quote.  I kind of read it as meaning "Don't go looking for hypothetical things to worry yourself over; there are enough things to worry about in the here and now."  I say that to myself sometimes when my mind is going too many places at once.


Sandra Craft

#11
Quote from: Ali on May 12, 2012, 03:08:59 PM
QuoteSufficient for the day is its own trouble.

I've actually always liked that quote.  I kind of read it as meaning "Don't go looking for hypothetical things to worry yourself over; there are enough things to worry about in the here and now."  I say that to myself sometimes when my mind is going too many places at once.

That's one of my biblical favorites too, for the same reason.  Altho I grew up "sufficient unto the day is the trouble thereof" which I think is a more elegant wording, but probably just because I grew up with it.

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 12, 2012, 04:44:15 AM
There is more than enough food in the world to feed all 7 billion of us. The reason people starve is because of people.  God has given sufficient food, and expects us to distribute it, just like the disciples did with the loaves and fishes.  We have failed, not God.

I would consider this, if it were not for the all-knowing claim made for god.  

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

ThinkAnarchy

Quote from: Stevil on May 11, 2012, 09:39:33 PM


"Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' "For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
"But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.



From what I remember from church. They used this passage, or a similar one, to get donations. Through altruism god will reward you with more money than you donated. There were always success stories of the person who gave their last penny to the church or a hungry family and instantly became wealthy.
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

Stevil

Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on May 12, 2012, 07:39:18 PM
From what I remember from church. They used this passage, or a similar one, to get donations. Through altruism god will reward you with more money than you donated. There were always success stories of the person who gave their last penny to the church or a hungry family and instantly became wealthy.
Kinda like buying a lotto ticket LOL

Stevil

Quote from: Ali on May 12, 2012, 03:08:59 PM
QuoteSufficient for the day is its own trouble.

I've actually always liked that quote.  I kind of read it as meaning "Don't go looking for hypothetical things to worry yourself over; there are enough things to worry about in the here and now."  I say that to myself sometimes when my mind is going too many places at once.
Except, I'm sure Ali, you go to great trouble to ensure your child's future is bright.