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General => Politics => Topic started by: karadan on November 19, 2008, 01:55:27 PM

Title: The reaction to the election.
Post by: karadan on November 19, 2008, 01:55:27 PM
From what i've seen across the pond, the majority of America seems to be happy with the election results. I was wondering if there are any outspoken people proclaiming it was a fix or conspiracy. I've not been able to find anything much on the views of republicans on his victory. I just guess i thought that if he did win, the bible belt would erupt in a frenzy of hatred and venom.

Has any of that been happening at all? Or have republicans on the whole bowed to defeat gracefully?
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: jcm on November 19, 2008, 04:50:30 PM
Quote from: "karadan"I've not been able to find anything much on the views of republicans on his victory.

You must not listen to a lot of talk radio. Do yourself a favor and don’t listen. To these creeps Obama is a socialist, who wants to take your guns away, kill your babies, punish the rich, reward the unproductive, destroy our military and declare defeat in Iraq.
 
A lot of republicans I’ve talked to are scared to death.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: rlrose328 on November 19, 2008, 05:13:38 PM
Quote from: "karadan"From what i've seen across the pond, the majority of America seems to be happy with the election results. I was wondering if there are any outspoken people proclaiming it was a fix or conspiracy. I've not been able to find anything much on the views of republicans on his victory. I just guess i thought that if he did win, the bible belt would erupt in a frenzy of hatred and venom.

Has any of that been happening at all? Or have republicans on the whole bowed to defeat gracefully?

I'm not in the bible belt, but there has been PLENTY of screaming from people I know locally.  I'm in a county that went 68% Obama (according to CNN) but those that lost are VERY vocal about how horrible things will be now.  If you pop up to Facebook and look at the Flare there, you will find a preponderance of buttons that proclaim "11-4-08, USA RIP" and "don't blame me, I voted for McCain" and "Socialist States of America" and worse.  I find very few that proclaim joy that Obama is the president.

He won by such a large margin (compared to the past several elections) but those who voted FOR him are less likely to be chest-bangers I guess.  I don't watch FOX News, so I don't know what the commentaries are there... I'm guessing they can't be good, though.  There is much unhappiness in the lower states, though.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: curiosityandthecat on November 19, 2008, 05:39:58 PM
Quote from: "jcm"To these creeps Obama is a socialist, who wants to take your guns away, kill your babies, punish the rich, reward the unproductive, destroy our military and declare defeat in Iraq.

So, by extension, Obama supporters are that, too? I knew I voted for the right guy!  :|
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Asmodean on November 19, 2008, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: "jcm"To these creeps Obama is a socialist,
My government are social democrats. And my country is above the USA when it comes to the standard of living... So uh... What's the problem with socialism? (Note: I'm a liberal democrat. I'm not a socialist. However, I do not say socialists are wrong because they are socialists)

Quote from: "jcm"who wants to take your guns away,
OOH! That's bad... Very bad... ... ...  :D

Quote from: "jcm"punish the rich,
Why not? Put their rich criminal @sses in jail. You do know that rich rhymes with the b-word, right?  :( Well, one CAN dream.

Quote from: "jcm"destroy our military
Same comment as guns

Quote from: "jcm"and declare defeat in Iraq.
Well, someone better do that... sooner or later... Or are they settling for an eternal stalemate rather than admitting that not only was the war based on a bunch o' lies, but that it has also actually begun when Bushy declared victory (at least it began casualty-wise for the allied troops)?
 
Quote from: "jcm"A lot of republicans I’ve talked to are scared to death.
Rub it in and practice your maniacal evil laughter MUAHA... Heh... Well, you get the idea  :D
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: jcm on November 20, 2008, 03:36:36 AM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"
Quote from: "jcm"To these creeps Obama is a socialist, who wants to take your guns away, kill your babies, punish the rich, reward the unproductive, destroy our military and declare defeat in Iraq.

So, by extension, Obama supporters are that, too? I knew I voted for the right guy!  :|

you hold 'em down and i'll grab the meat cleaver  

 ...maybe a little much?  :D
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: jcm on November 20, 2008, 03:51:31 AM
QuoteMy government are social democrats. And my country is above the USA when it comes to the standard of living... So uh... What's the problem with socialism? (Note: I'm a liberal democrat. I'm not a socialist. However, I do not say socialists are wrong because they are socialists)

HITLER! YOU ARE HITLER!!!!!!!

QuoteOOH! That's bad... Very bad... ... ...  Why IS that bad, exactly?

If you don’t have guns then how are you going to shoot abortion doctors?

QuoteI doubt he'll go around with a poleaxe hacking off the heads of babies passing by... Thus, HE will not be killing no babies, yes?  

No I read on his website that he plans on performing all abortions himself. He just loves doing that.

QuoteWhy not? Put their rich criminal @sses in jail. You do know that rich rhymes with the b-word, right?  

3% more in taxes is not punishment nor does it mean the wealthy are no longer wealthy.

QuoteRub it in and practice your maniacal evil laughter MUAHA... Heh... Well, you get the idea  

I usually smiles and nod while doing that on the inside J
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: curiosityandthecat on November 20, 2008, 03:54:20 AM
Quote from: "jcm"you hold 'em down and i'll grab the meat cleaver  

 ...maybe a little much?  :D

Know what goes great with grilled idiot?

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages39.fotki.com%2Fv1291%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2Fpotatoes-vi.gif&hash=ff6202530bc3b639487d69aa84939d9e934f12b2)

 :D
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Titan on November 20, 2008, 04:09:23 AM
It's the capital gains tax that is scaring people more than the 3%.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: jcm on November 20, 2008, 04:12:22 AM
Quote from: "curiosityandthecat"
Quote from: "jcm"you hold 'em down and i'll grab the meat cleaver  

 ...maybe a little much?  :D

Know what goes great with grilled idiot?

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages39.fotki.com%2Fv1291%2Fphotos%2F8%2F892548%2F6116196%2Fpotatoes-vi.gif&hash=ff6202530bc3b639487d69aa84939d9e934f12b2)

 :D

you and your little animations!...where the hell do you find them?????
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: jcm on November 20, 2008, 04:27:42 AM
Quote from: "Titan"It's the capital gains tax that is scaring people more than the 3%.

yeah what is it going up to, 75, 85%? something like that?
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Asmodean on November 20, 2008, 11:28:18 AM
Quote from: "jcm"HITLER! YOU ARE HITLER!!!!!!!
Meprefers to think of me as Napoleon II  :raised: How about using crossbows? You can even stick a carving of jesus to the underside!  :(  The poleaxe is SO much more... Spectacular...   :pop:

Quote from: "jcm"3% more in taxes is not punishment nor does it mean the wealthy are no longer wealthy.
Well as long as it doesn't get as bad as it is here, higher taxes are not that bad a thing. Here, some people with high income have to pay half of it to the state. Robbery, I call it.

Quote from: "jcm"I usually smiles and nod while doing that on the inside J
Ah... Works too... I just find a good fit of maniacal laughter very rewarding. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.scuba2000.com%2Fforum%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fevillaugh.gif&hash=60eb1197ab7267dd0be5eee0bd377d9b5e1085c2)
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: karadan on November 20, 2008, 11:49:58 AM
Well, that puts a downer on the election. I was hoping stuff like this wouldn't happen :(

Just read the 'Obama assassination threat' thread. That makes some sobering reading. What is it with uneducated people not being able to accept defeat gracefully? Why couldn't they take a leaf out of McCain's book? I thought his defeat speech was pure class.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Sophus on November 22, 2008, 01:52:21 AM
I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: karadan on November 26, 2008, 10:21:59 AM
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Kylyssa on November 29, 2008, 06:13:35 PM
Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.

Palin is the reason a few card carrying Republicans I know voted for Obama.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Chemistry08 on December 04, 2008, 06:39:48 AM
Quote from: "jcm"who wants to take your guns away,
OOH! That's bad... Very bad... ... ...  :raised: Why IS that bad, exactly?

Honestly, in a perfect world taking away guns would be awesome. Sadly, we live in a far from perfect world.

"Cum catapulatae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt." -Julius Caesar

Translation: ""When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

I'm sure that if Barack Obama were to pass legislation to remove all guns from the USA, every pistol packing gang banger would go to the nearest dumpster to dispose of there illegally possessed weapon. NOT!!

Criminals would love for all citizens to be be defenseless, who wants to be shot back at while committing a crime?!?!

I can see why the vast majority of atheists tend to be towards the left, politically. In regards to the separation of religion and government, I'm on the left. But some of the views of these far left democrats are so unrealistic that they rival the unrealistic belief in a deity!
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Zarathustra on December 04, 2008, 09:43:31 AM
Quote from: "Kylyssa"Palin is the reason a few card carrying Republicans I know voted for Obama.
That fact makes me appreciate her a whole lot more.  :lol:
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Zarathustra on December 04, 2008, 09:52:51 AM
Quote from: "Chemistry08"Criminals would love for all citizens to be be defenseless, who wants to be shot back at while committing a crime?!?!

I can see why the vast majority of atheists tend to be towards the left, politically. In regards to the separation of religion and government, I'm on the left. But some of the views of these far left democrats are so unrealistic that they rival the unrealistic belief in a deity!
What is so unrealistic about it? I live in a society where guns ARE outlawed... do I live in an unreal country?
The practical consequence of that politics in my society, goes against all that you write. So unrealistic, it isn't:
Our crime rate is much lower than yours, our murderrate pr. citizen is infinately lower than yours, we have never had "high-scool-killings" or any mass murderers, our crimesolving rate is much higher, and so on and so forth.
Another consequence is that I am never afraid to let my kid play in the streets, and that I have never held a gun nor heard it been shot. (Except in the movies.)
How does that compare to a belief in a deity?
I think your post sincerely lacks the "yes, we can!"-thought... And that is a pity, since I really like the fact that it is OK to be an idealist again.  :lol:
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Chemistry08 on December 04, 2008, 03:26:59 PM
There are more guns in this country than people (>300,000,000). How could you go about removing all from society. They tried it with alcohol in the prohibition era and that just lead bootlegging and illegal 'underground' bars. How could you go about doing this!? And why take guns from the hands of law abiding citizens because of a handful of criminals. Not to mention it is a constitutional right, the one constitutional right to defend all others.

Anybody who has never shot a gun should, its a lot of fun! Our media portrays guns as evil when in actuality people are.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: rlrose328 on December 04, 2008, 06:05:31 PM
IMHO, Americans have such an "I can do what I want and everyone else be damned" mentality.  Greed fuels our every motive (on a grand scale, anyway).  They'd NEVER give up their guns.

For me, I'd rather live in Denmark where I don't have to be afraid to leave my house after dark, no matter HOW safe I know my neighborhood is.  I love the freedom I have in America, but it has come with a horrible price that I'm not sure I like paying on a regular basis.

I think it's the sense of entitlement that is bred into Americans that causes so much of the problem.  We feel we deserve everything, and more and more, people use guns to ensure they get it, be it to threaten someone to get what they want or to kill to get what they want.  Why can't people just be happy with what they have and help out others who have nothing?
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: oldschooldoc on December 04, 2008, 10:13:49 PM
Quote from: "rlrose328"I think it's the sense of entitlement that is bred into Americans that causes so much of the problem.  We feel we deserve everything, and more and more, people use guns to ensure they get it, be it to threaten someone to get what they want or to kill to get what they want.  Why can't people just be happy with what they have and help out others who have nothing?

 :hail:
I agree, totally. The sense of entitlement in this country is outrageous. I own a gun, but it's only a .22 caliber hunting (if you can call it that) rifle. The only thing I ever shoot with it is cans and bottles for target practice. I used to own a handgun, until I realized that just having it in my home could be cause for harm (you never know who might find it and want to try it out). I would give up my rifle in a heartbeat if my new President said we had to. There are other ways to protect yourself.

And yes, why can't we all just help out others who have nothing?
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Zarathustra on December 05, 2008, 01:50:57 AM
rlrose and oldschooldoc:
I understand why Americans love the concept of entitlement, that is part of what we admire about your country.  :lol:  

To Chemistry08:
I must confess that you have a point regarding the amount of weapons currently floating around in your country. It would be a tramendous task collecting them. But there is a quicker solution: Sooner or later people would run out of bullets if you simply stopped selling them. But again; you do have a point.  :confused:
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: nikkixsugar on December 05, 2008, 02:32:45 AM
Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.

I'm glad Obama won, I voted for him. I'm glad Palin ran, because she is just TOO FUN to make fun of.

"She can see Russia from her house!"
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Whitney on December 05, 2008, 02:37:16 AM
Where did so many people get the idea that Obama wants to take 'our' (I don't have one) guns away?  He specifically stated that he does not want to take the guns away, he just wants better gun control.  It's already illegal for citizens to own some types of weapons (you can't have an atom bomb) because they are simply unnecessary for self defense reasons.  Similarly, you don't need a bazooka to defend your property from a robber.  It also doesn't hurt anyone to have to go through a waiting period so their background can be properly checked.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Chemistry08 on December 05, 2008, 02:57:24 AM
Quote
Quote from: "Chemistry08"And why take guns from the hands of law abiding citizens because of a handful of criminals. Not to mention it is a constitutional right, the one constitutional right to defend all others.

Anybody who has never shot a gun should, its a lot of fun! Our media portrays guns as evil when in actuality people are.
What is so fun about it?  I remember reading very recently about an eight year old boy somewhere in the US, who shot himself in the head with a machinegun. While supervised by his dad and a shootinginstructor. He died.
... - I have an 8-year old. Doesn't sound like a fun father-son moment to me. :confused:
The story that you reference is unfortunate. I remember reading it as well. It was most definitely negligent in more ways than one but certainly no more negligent than say the misuse of a common kitchen knife that can easily and has killed many children to date.

The joys of shooting are the same as one would get from any hobby that people do for pure enjoyment. Testing and exercising human ability just, as with any other sport, stimulates the mind in my opinion. The joy that comes with practice and improvement. Its the same as throwing darts, playing tennis, golf, basketball, ect. All are games that involve accuracy, competition, and achievement. Also, collection of guns is fun!

This may seem a half-assed answer but it is very difficult to explain emotions and why things are fun. The real question, in my opinion is, why wouldn't it be fun?
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Chemistry08 on December 05, 2008, 03:14:22 AM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"Where did so many people get the idea that Obama wants to take 'our' (I don't have one) guns away?  He specifically stated that he does not want to take the guns away, he just wants better gun control.  It's already illegal for citizens to own some types of weapons (you can't have an atom bomb) because they are simply unnecessary for self defense reasons.  Similarly, you don't need a bazooka to defend your property from a robber.  It also doesn't hurt anyone to have to go through a waiting period so their background can be properly checked.

What a presidential candidate says during their campaign in know way portrays their true desires. All we can do is look at his history on the issues. He has voted in favor for every gun control law to date, including the D.C. gun-ban, as well as the bill banning concealed carry and handgun ownership in his home state of Illinois.

This right is important because it was given to us, by the founding fathers, to stand up to an overpowering government. The right to keep and bear arms is the protector of all others. Without it, without the government fearing the people in some sense, what other rights would they take from us!?

I leave you with a couple of quotes:

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Whitney on December 05, 2008, 03:22:44 AM
In a practical sense....do you think we could form a militia capable of overthrowing the government if it were necessary?

I think the purpose of the 2nd amendment is no longer one which could be realized.  That doesn't mean we should completely toss it out, but we also have to realize that the founding fathers could in no way foresee all the various weapons we have now nor the size of our military force.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: curiosityandthecat on December 05, 2008, 03:25:51 AM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"In a practical sense....do you think we could form a militia capable of overthrowing the government if it were necessary?

I think the purpose of the 2nd amendment is no longer one which could be realized.  That doesn't mean we should completely toss it out, but we also have to realize that the founding fathers could in no way foresee all the various weapons we have now nor the size of our military force.

That's a good point. Kind of reminds me of the first 20 seconds of this:

[youtube:2py4wt74]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nknAzQPHE[/youtube:2py4wt74]
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Sophus on December 05, 2008, 03:26:10 AM
Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.

I wasn't crazy about Palin but McCain was by far and away my preference over Obama. But even though I don't think Obama is going to do a single thing he promised (expect provide "temporary" relief) I will support him as our President and wish him the best. He seems a decent fellow (for a politician).
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Chemistry08 on December 05, 2008, 03:45:43 AM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"In a practical sense....do you think we could form a militia capable of overthrowing the government if it were necessary?

I think the purpose of the 2nd amendment is no longer one which could be realized.  That doesn't mean we should completely toss it out, but we also have to realize that the founding fathers could in no way foresee all the various weapons we have now nor the size of our military force.

Power in numbers!! For instance, there are over 80 million gun owners residing in this country. United States military 1,436,642 (active duty) 1,458,500 (reserves). Even if a tenth of the gun owners in this country stood up for their 2nd amendment right, the US military would be heavily out numbered. And how many of the enlisted do you think would fight against their own country!? Not to mention against a right that they probably exercise as civilians!?

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
-Thomas Jefferson
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Chemistry08 on December 05, 2008, 03:49:24 AM
Quote from: "Sophus"
Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.

I wasn't crazy about Palin but McCain was by far and away my preference over Obama. But even though I don't think Obama is going to do a single thing he promised (expect provide "temporary" relief) I will support him as our President and wish him the best. He seems a decent fellow (for a politician).

Hallelujah!! HAHA! It sounds like another atheist who leans towards the right. That is a rare find!
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: Sophus on December 05, 2008, 03:58:23 AM
Quote from: "Chemistry08"Hallelujah!! HAHA! It sounds like another atheist who leans towards the right. That is a rare find!
Actually, I'm usually pretty liberal I just happen to trust John McCain much more than any politician. He is a remarkable man who without a doubt puts his country first.
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: oldschooldoc on December 05, 2008, 06:50:26 PM
Quote from: "laetusatheos"Where did so many people get the idea that Obama wants to take 'our' (I don't have one) guns away?  He specifically stated that he does not want to take the guns away, he just wants better gun control.  It's already illegal for citizens to own some types of weapons (you can't have an atom bomb) because they are simply unnecessary for self defense reasons.  Similarly, you don't need a bazooka to defend your property from a robber.  It also doesn't hurt anyone to have to go through a waiting period so their background can be properly checked.

You know, at my work there are a few guys who refuse to believe Obama isn't going to take their guns. They cling to his statement about clinging. Coincidence? I think not. He is not going to take peoples' guns away, at least not all of them. Who needs an Uzi or AK47? Nobody, except the military (when necessary for defense of course).
Title: Re: The reaction to the election.
Post by: karadan on December 17, 2008, 11:12:22 AM
Quote from: "oldschooldoc"
Quote from: "laetusatheos"Where did so many people get the idea that Obama wants to take 'our' (I don't have one) guns away?  He specifically stated that he does not want to take the guns away, he just wants better gun control.  It's already illegal for citizens to own some types of weapons (you can't have an atom bomb) because they are simply unnecessary for self defense reasons.  Similarly, you don't need a bazooka to defend your property from a robber.  It also doesn't hurt anyone to have to go through a waiting period so their background can be properly checked.

You know, at my work there are a few guys who refuse to believe Obama isn't going to take their guns. They cling to his statement about clinging. Coincidence? I think not. He is not going to take peoples' guns away, at least not all of them. Who needs an Uzi or AK47? Nobody, except the military (when necessary for defense of course).

I've always found America's preoccupation with guns rather odd. As a Brit, i just don't see the point. I've fired guns before and it was fun. I used to shoot on a range for the CCF. I've also been clay pidgeon shooting many times. It had its time and place, though. I certainly do not want to own one.

I couldn't imagine living in a country where eveyone is not only allowed to own guns but positively encouraged to worship them. The level of gun nuttery in the USA is bizarre. Considering Canada have pretty much the same laws but hardly any of the gun crime, makes it all the more strange.

I used to be part of a forum and one time a guy posted pictures of the armoury under his house. He had over 2000 guns.....  :hmm:  

If the laws were changed in the UK so that everyone was allowed to own guns, i'd move to another country in a heartbeat.