North Korea launched a missle over Japan....
Shit would probably get real with any other president. This guy is probably just gonna flaunt his dick some more.
Kim whatizname is messing with our heads. He knows full well that we are capable of reducing his country to smoldering ash. He is also aware that we are not likely to entertain that thought in a serious way. I suspect that we are between a rock and a hard spot with this nut case leader..... Kim I mean, not The Donald.
He has pissed off the Japanese, big time with this latest missile that flew over Japan. Cannot blame them.
What next?
Well seeing Japan can't use their military for international means...the us either has to shit on North Korea or somehow alter Japan's constitution to allow them to fight for themselves. Assuming they could. They haven't been involved in war since WW II.
If we attack N. Korea there will be a short but horrifically devastating war. Kim will lose, but the damage done will be appalling,
Quote from: OldGit on August 30, 2017, 09:40:27 AM
If we attack N. Korea there will be a short but horrifically devastating war. Kim will lose, but the damage done will be appalling,
Hmm, I wonder how China would react to such an attack just over its border - a very sensitive border for them - even on an "ally" they only want as a buffer state and is more like a liability in all other respects.
Face is more important than rationality in the East.
Later: even if China took no military action they, currently, have quite a grip on America in terms of investment and trade. If they called in all their loans, grabbed Apple etc and stopped exporting to America - wonder who would suffer the most? The American oeople have the right to demonstrate and other "democratic" things, the Chinese (so far) are forced to do as they are told. Political control in America might fail, disasterously, faster than in China.
I am not sure that even if Europe and Scandinavia joined in boycotting Chiba it would make much impression. It would not be in the best interests of Africa and S. America, continents with severe problems of their own, to side with America against China - even if they wanted to.
Remember what happened in 1950. MacArthur ignored advice and orders and kept advancing towards the Yalu river. Suddenly a massive Chinese army appeared and joined in the fight.
Quote from: OldGit on August 30, 2017, 10:23:03 AM
Remember what happened in 1950. MacArthur ignored advice and orders and kept advancing towards the Yalu river. Suddenly a massive Chinese army appeared and joined in the fight.
Hmm, but China had a far, far smaller stake and sense of reliance invested in tge rest if the world then. Starting a fighting war, even a conventional one, is not something either sude wants to contemplate I think - hence the sabre ratling on America's side and the more verbal rattles from the Chinese. A trade/economic war may be more likely IMO.
Did you know that N. Korea runs a global insurance fraud scheme?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/23/uk-freezes-assets-of-north-korean-company-in-south-london-insurance-nuclear-weapons
http://www.businessinsurance.com/article/20170113/NEWS06/912311413/Insurance-fraud-pads-North-Korea-state-income
etc.
El Trumpo has agreed thst S. Korea should upgrade its ballistic misdile capability:
QuoteSouth Korea agrees to revise missile treaty in face of North Korean threats] (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/02/south-korea-agrees-revise-missile-treaty-face-north-korean-threats/)
I can see their reasoning but, well let's just raise NK's irrational paranoia level several more points, with the consequential risk of them getting their defence in first . . .
Or at least, don't announcr it to the whole world.
Wait, that sounds familiar...
North Korea: Tremor detected in sign of possible nuclear test (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-41139445)
QuoteA large earth tremor has been detected in North Korea, raising speculation that the country has carried out its sixth nuclear test.
US seismologists said the 6.3 magnitude quake in the north-east of the country was a "possible explosion".
It is in the area where the North has conducted previous nuclear tests.
Stop press - NK has announced that it was an H-bomb, and deliverable by missile.
Quote from: OldGit on September 03, 2017, 09:53:32 AM
Stop press - NK has announced that it was an H-bomb, and deliverable by missile.
163 cruise missile on their way to NK.
Quote from: Tank on September 03, 2017, 10:29:40 AM
Quote from: OldGit on September 03, 2017, 09:53:32 AM
Stop press - NK has announced that it was an H-bomb, and deliverable by missile.
163 cruise missile on their way to NK.
Seems NK stocking up and readying their own cruise missiles.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/08/07/us-spy-satellites-detect-north-korea-moving-anti-ship-cruise-missiles-to-patrol-boat.html
(OK! Sorry it's Fucks News)
V1's were cruise missiles. Not rocket science :grin:
Quote from: Tank on September 03, 2017, 12:38:20 PM
V1's were cruise missiles. Not rocket science :grin:
I think a "cruise missile" with its GPS/terrain following/optical recognition systems is a tad more advanced than a V1 running on a compass, gyro and timer!
QuoteNorth Korea's New KN19 Coastal Defense Cruise Missile: More Than Meets the Eye
http://thediplomat.com/2017/07/north-koreas-new-kn19-coastal-defense-cruise-missile-more-than-meets-the-eye/
Just thinking, is "cruise missile" getting to be generic for any battlefield, non-ballistic missile system? The original conceot was for a mid-speed, mid-range, terrain following, low level, self-navigating, missile. A device that could be, literally, programmed to read a map, match it to the terrain and tgen determine the actual target.
Anti-ship missiles are pointed at a ship, recognise its shape, maybe head for the most vulnerable area if known, and just go for it. A "semi-intelligent" self-guided missile designed for armour penetration at high velocity and low level. Not much terrain to follow at sea . . .
A subtle distinction.
Both are vulnerable to high rate, multi-barrel auto-cannons. If you "see" them early enough . . .
I think that's the way we're going. Much easier for the news to call any missile a cruise missile than to add that level of nuance to their reporting. And I'm not sure it really matters to most people. It launches, flies for a while, then goes boom. For most people that's all they really need to know.
Things are getting quite warm over NK in the UN.
It very much depends on China and how they respond to the threat of the US boycotting states that deal with NK. Hitting China in the wallet is being touted as the best bet, but I would not put any money on it.
China wants the US and NK to reduce their "joint exercises" but the US says this is "insulting" and that no nation should be expected to lower their guard against another who threatens them. The subtext that that threat is unjustified, imaginary, irrational has not yet been voiced. Yet the comparison between the "responsible" and "irresponsible" nuclear nations has been made.
I am wondering if Iran has a finger or two in this pie. They had helped NK with missile technology in the past. The pundits are surprised how quickly NK has developed these technologies, Iran bas lots of experience.
Later: seems there are those repeating the above but nothing on the radio about it so far. Could be speculation.
Trump (sort of) cools things down. The rhetoric takes a more concilliatory tone.
QuoteTrump says military action is not his 'first choice' on North Korea
President Donald Trump said Wednesday that military action is not his "first choice" to address North Korea's ongoing moves to develop its nuclear and ballistic missile programs, hours after he spoke by phone with Chinese President Xi Jinping.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/06/politics/donald-trump-north-korea-xi-jinping/index.html
Let's just hope he does not tweet or otherwise send any further confusing or conflicting messages.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dumpaday.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F09%2F4-5.jpg&hash=c6e1377a1e3de2e73fa040c61cd060bc87847b07)
Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2017, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: Tank on September 03, 2017, 12:38:20 PM
V1's were cruise missiles. Not rocket science :grin:
I think a "cruise missile" with its GPS/terrain following/optical recognition systems is a tad more advanced than a V1 running on a compass, gyro and timer!
It wasn't a ballistic missile, that would be the V2. All the above are refinements to the basic concept of the cruise missile.
NK will never give its nukes up voluntarily. They consider them a necessity for maintenance of the regime. They will starve their own citizens before giving them up. So the question becomes whether the West - particularly the USA - can live with a nuclear NK. If so, then we enter a new phase of existence where the threat of a nuclear attack is real, as NK will only get better at launching missiles. If not, then the USA must destroy NK's nukes, which will lead to a very destructive (even if relatively brief) war. My guess is that at some point, the USA will decide that it cannot live with a nuclear NK, and it will take action. That's my guess - with Trump it's impossible to predict.
Trump will ban NK from earth. Then he will make a business deal with Kim to make more friendly relations. Then Trump will tweet out "how much great NK is now. It's stunning, how great NK is. America made NK great again"
Quote from: Tank on September 07, 2017, 12:54:42 AM
Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2017, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: Tank on September 03, 2017, 12:38:20 PM
V1's were cruise missiles. Not rocket science :grin:
I think a "cruise missile" with its GPS/terrain following/optical recognition systems is a tad more advanced than a V1 running on a compass, gyro and timer!
It wasn't a ballistic missile, that would be the V2. All the above are refinements to the basic concept of the cruise missile.
Yeah, but what refinements! Basically the difference between hitting London or hitting a specific building in London.
Quote from: Dave on September 07, 2017, 03:09:27 AM
Quote from: Tank on September 07, 2017, 12:54:42 AM
Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2017, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: Tank on September 03, 2017, 12:38:20 PM
V1's were cruise missiles. Not rocket science :grin:
I think a "cruise missile" with its GPS/terrain following/optical recognition systems is a tad more advanced than a V1 running on a compass, gyro and timer!
It wasn't a ballistic missile, that would be the V2. All the above are refinements to the basic concept of the cruise missile.
Yeah, but what refinements! Basically the difference between hitting London or hitting a specific building in London.
A specific window in a specific building in London :grin:
Quote from: Tank on September 08, 2017, 09:55:48 PM
Quote from: Dave on September 07, 2017, 03:09:27 AM
Quote from: Tank on September 07, 2017, 12:54:42 AM
Quote from: Dave on September 03, 2017, 12:47:27 PM
Quote from: Tank on September 03, 2017, 12:38:20 PM
V1's were cruise missiles. Not rocket science :grin:
I think a "cruise missile" with its GPS/terrain following/optical recognition systems is a tad more advanced than a V1 running on a compass, gyro and timer!
It wasn't a ballistic missile, that would be the V2. All the above are refinements to the basic concept of the cruise missile.
Yeah, but what refinements! Basically the difference between hitting London or hitting a specific building in London.
A specific window in a specific building in London :grin:
I was gonna say that but left it out!
China is showing a bit more muscle, I think that means they are mire worried/pissed off over NK than they admit. It was only about a week ago they were saying sanctions would not work, but they are complying with them. That is not quite the normal Chinese way.
QuoteChinese government orders all North Korean firms to close in China
QuoteThe Chinese government has ordered all North Korean companies based in the country to close as a result of UN sanctions over Pyongyang's latest nuclear missile tests.
China's commerce ministry said on Thursday that North Korean firms or joint ventures in China will be shut within 120 days of the UN decision, which was announced on 12 September.
The move comes amid intense international pressure on China to act to rein-in its neighbour.
Beijing had previously ordered banks to stop working with the North Korean regime following US concerns the Chinese government wasn't being tough enough on the North Korean nuclear threat.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-north-korea-firms-companies-close-beijing-commerce-nuclear-missile-crisis-us-a7971541.html