Happy Atheist Forum

I work with one of the most wonderful women i've ever met. I'm completely enamored with her. She's funny, smart, principled, kind, generous and very sexy. I've worked with her for six months and in that time, we've got to know each other very well. We've been on a few dates but since then she's let me know she only likes me as a friend. She was very honest with me and was caring enough to take my feelings into account. I do believe she genuinely felt bad for me. No problem, i can handle rejection. My respect for her gives me the objectivity to be just a good friend to her. It's sad, but it is a fact of life.

This was all 2 - 3 months ago. Since then, something has come to light; She is deeply Christian.

I don't know about you guys but there really aren't many people that age in the UK still practicing Christianity. it still exists of course, but they are generally conveniently segregated from other parts of society just because of their lifestyle. I certainly wouldn't have met her in any other situation other than work. Because of this, she is the only deeply religious person i currently know.

I was surprised but very interested. I guess i've built up a few misconceptions over the years as to what constitutes a young religious person (she is 24). The drably dressed goody-two-shoes jobsworth image i had in my head was completely blown out of the water by her demeanour and general attitude. I mean, she looks GOOD. She understands irony and has an advanced sense of humour. She's as cynical about the government as i am. We can literally talk for hours on any subject.

It was just one of these chats we were having in the pub the other day when the conversation steered towards religion. I'd been holding off for a while as i didn't want to offend her with my theories. I guess she may have been feeling the same way. Nonetheless  we broached the subject. I asked her if, 'as a decent citizen, someone who is good all their life and loves the people around them unconditionally, if there were to be an afterlife, would they have a place in heaven?'
Her answer was - 'If they believed in God, yes. If they didn't believe in God, then no...'

I was actually quite stunned. She said it so straight-faced. Here is someone i look up to enormously. Someone who has an enviable strength of character and a charm and grace i've rarely seen in anyone else in such large quantities and she quite matter-of-factly told me something that really should only belong in a comic book or fairy tale...

I asked her if it made her sad that i was going to hell and she said yes. She told me most of her friends were going to hell (as they are equally atheist or, at least agnostic as i) and that her middle sister will also be going to hell. Right...

So, whilst people like me, my family, friends and colleagues go through life having fun, doing what we do as rational, normal humans with a zest for life and laughter, she'll have the same exposure to all of this but every single good thing that happens to her will be tarnished with the underlying fear that many of the people she loves are going to burn in hell for the rest of eternity. I don't need the threat of eternal damnation to be a good person. She seems to think she does. How sad is that?

That really pisses me off. How dare such a twisted ideology create so much emotional pain for someone so utterly entrancing? How can someone so rational take to such jibberish? The only explanation i can come up with is that Christianity is one hell of an efficient brainwashing device. It rules through fear and fear alone. Luckily she is of the ilk that Christianity should be used for good deeds (she regularly helps at local shelters for the homeless etc) and this is something i have no problem with. She's used the context for good - something we all know is easily reversed - but there is still that fear and pain underlying everything she does and i HATE christianity for it.

How dare they ruin such a wonderful person?

I will continue being a good friend to her (this is her request as much as it is mine). She understands my view but thinks i am wrong. She prays for me but respects my feelings (as i do hers). She certainly has not preached or tried to convert me and i have done no such thing to her - as much as i'd like to of course, but i feel it would be very unfair of me to do so.

I don't believe her religious convictions have anything to do with her only wanting to be a friend to me, though. I think it is quite straight forward. She simply isn't attracted to me that way. So for anyone thinking i was a little jaded because of that, that isn't the case.

So, i'm in love with a Christian girl. She possesses all the hallmarks of the saintly altruism so widely spoken about in the Bible, but then it is as easy to be that way without religion and without all the fear, dogma and sadness. So much sadness.

Sounds like a difficult situation, karadan.

There are plenty of smart, funny, wise people who believe in one religion or another.
Since I am a former Catholic, I can tell you that in my case I really wasn't walking around thinking about all the people around me going to hell.  That can create some serious mental/emotional issues to be sure.  Rather, I would guess that she doesn't actively think about it, and her reply to your question was just  a conditioned response.

The human mind and emotions can create a myriad of amazing scenarios.  You and she are on different paths.  If you can really accept her for what she is, that will have to include her belief in God, Heaven and Hell - and who's going where!

I agree that it is sad.  I do feel a certain amount of pity for the deeply religious... but I also have to admit a bit of envy.  Wouldn't it be nice to really believe and know what was going to happen and why?

Maybe there was a tree outside the Garden of Eden that some people missed - the Tree of the Knowledge of Logic and Science.

Cast out?,
JoeActor

For what its worth, I think everyone is responsible for their own decisions and their own behavior and their own beliefs.  I don't think anyone "ruined" her --- in a way, if her beliefs are "ruining" her, then she's "ruining" herself.  I think you have to take this facet of her personality into consideration when you evaluate her.

Plus - aren't you glad now that you're just friends?  Imagine having gotten romantically involved and then having this come to light later.  Big mess!

I'm married to a wonderful woman. I consider myself deeply 'blessed' in a way. She loves deeply, she's smart, funny, gorgeous, has good taste, and she's also a Christian. If I were an atheist before we met, I don't think it would have ever worked out. It presents a lot of difficulties. But once those difficulties are discussed and dealt with it deepens the relationship in a way. We've overcome a lot to love one another, and we can appreciate eachother for reasons we wouldn't have been exposed to in a relationship of the same belief structure.

Plus I've rubbed off on her quite a bit and she's not so 'evangelical'. But if you pinned her down in a discussion about hell she would probably say I'm going there according to the Bible. Or she would say she just doesn't know. But, she believes her place is to love me no matter what. And it's genuine, it's not like she's 'doing it for the marriage', you know? We had a difficult time making sure we weren't together just for the sake of marriage. But we're over that now and things are really good. I don't mind my wife being a Christian, because it's not like belief is really something we choose. We're exposed to something and if it is emotionally supportive then we adopt it. Or we allow ourselves to be molded by it.

This girl was probably raised in the church and it's her support structure. She builds her life around it. It comforts her and gives her a sense of purpose. There's a story to her life that has a wonderful ending, even despite the pain caused by the idea of friends going to hell. So I feel for you, it's sad. But like Steve said, it's better to know up front. You don't want to go down that road knowingly.

Quote from: "SteveS"For what its worth, I think everyone is responsible for their own decisions and their own behavior and their own beliefs.  I don't think anyone "ruined" her --- in a way, if her beliefs are "ruining" her, then she's "ruining" herself.  I think you have to take this facet of her personality into consideration when you evaluate her.

Plus - aren't you glad now that you're just friends?  Imagine having gotten romantically involved and then having this come to light later.  Big mess!

Possibly. From my perspective, i'd be happy datng her. Her beliefs intrigue me, they do not scare me. I'd consider it a small concession if it meant i could be with her because she has so many amazing traits. Most relationships need concessions or compromise. How many husbands snore and how many wives have out of control shopping habits?
If anything, i'd learn from her. I'm sure i've become quite closed minded about certain things over the years, and with her unique perspective (from my perspective) could teach me much.

I don't think she is ruined. On the contrary. I believe she's very much fixed - or was never broken in the first place. She obviously comes from a very loving and stable background. I just think it is a little sad she has to carry around that baggage for the rest of her life. But as Joeactor said, she probably doesn't go around thinking about all the people around her going to hell all the time, and that her answer to me was a conditioned response (that was quite a helpful thing to say by the way. Thanks, joe).

I guess, the proof for me would be that my feelings for her didn't waver one bit once i found out she was Christian. If anything, my affection for her grew and i'm not really sure why. Had this question been posed to me before we met, i'd have probably said i'd run a mile.

Quote from: "myleviathan"I'm married to a wonderful woman. I consider myself deeply 'blessed' in a way. She loves deeply, she's smart, funny, gorgeous, has good taste, and she's also a Christian. If I were an atheist before we met, I don't think it would have ever worked out. It presents a lot of difficulties. But once those difficulties are discussed and dealt with it deepens the relationship in a way. We've overcome a lot to love one another, and we can appreciate eachother for reasons we wouldn't have been exposed to in a relationship of the same belief structure.

Plus I've rubbed off on her quite a bit and she's not so 'evangelical'. But if you pinned her down in a discussion about hell she would probably say I'm going there according to the Bible. Or she would say she just doesn't know. But, she believes her place is to love me no matter what. And it's genuine, it's not like she's 'doing it for the marriage', you know? We had a difficult time making sure we weren't together just for the sake of marriage. But we're over that now and things are really good. I don't mind my wife being a Christian, because it's not like belief is really something we choose. We're exposed to something and if it is emotionally supportive then we adopt it. Or we allow ourselves to be molded by it.

This girl was probably raised in the church and it's her support structure. She builds her life around it. It comforts her and gives her a sense of purpose. There's a story to her life that has a wonderful ending, even despite the pain caused by the idea of friends going to hell. So I feel for you, it's sad. But like Steve said, it's better to know up front. You don't want to go down that road knowingly.

That's a great story. Thanks

It is good to know it can work out. You sound like a diamond couple.

Okay, karadan, I'm reading you loud and clear.  I guess, just keep yourself in the running.  People can always change their minds.  Maybe she'll think differently about a relationship with you as time goes by.

Quote from: "karadan"Most relationships need concessions or compromise.

You speak truth!  

Cheers, and best of luck!