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Re: Hello, my brothers from another mother.

Started by rlrose328, April 20, 2008, 03:45:02 AM

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Unprofound

Hey, so, um, generic introductory post much? I am Alex, I am a student, anything naive or stupid that I say can just be attributed to my age, right? I just turned 18, so I'm not sure how much longer I can rely on that excuse, but heyyy. I know there is a lot that I don't know the first thing about, and I'm always open to learning, or even examining "facts" I've already accepted.

I'm surprised at myself for not arriving here sooner; I've been calling myself an atheist for some time now but I recently realised I'm very poor at it. Not that I have church-going lapses or anything like that, what I mean is this - I am sheerly basing my belief stance on "common sense". I don't have a repertoire of witty one-liners at my disposal, and I tend to avoid hardcore religious debate because I get quite irritated when people use "I'll pray for you" as a parting shot, and I find myself feeling better all around just keeping to myself. Unfortunately, when they come to your door it's not really an option, is it?
Coming here has opened my eyes to the sheer amount of information and debate there is, so I expect to be busy reading threads for some time. Maybe you'll see a lot of me?  :P

My reason for being here is quite simply, I am being bested in arguments by the Jehovah's witnesses that live down the street. In my defence, I was utterly unprepared for them and they are battle-hardened fanatics. I know, collective sigh of weariness, right? Should have just said not interested and closed the door, yeah? I'll put it down to my endearing youthful optimism - I engaged them in conversation. They're coming back next week. Apparently I gave the impression of one that can be salvaged. What I'm looking for by coming here (I kind of went off on a tangent there, sorry), well I'd just like to know how you deal with that particular breed of zealot? Are there a few short comebacks that will pointedly put across that atheism is a belief, not a vacancy for another? I tried the timid debating thing and it cost me an hour and a half and a return visit. I'm never going to believe a word of it, even if I wanted to.

Wasn't sure where to ask that sort of thing, so I figured I'd ask as I was helloing everyone. (I helloed you good, oh yeah I did.)

McQ

Welcome, Alex! Thanks for the introduction. And feel free to rely on the age thing as long as it serves you!  :D

The jehovah's witlesses are quite a handful, aren't they? Not as tough as the mormons, though. You'll be able to find out a lot here, so jump in!
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

myleviathan

Welcome, Alex - I just want to say, common sense is so underrated! Why can't people accept that we don't believe because there's simply no reason to?? They think there is something wrong with us!

      And about those Jehovah Witnesses - the key is not taking them too seriously. There is no possible way to debate reasonably with someone who takes the Bible so literally. Don't bother. If you get joy out of rediculous conversations with religious folk like I do, then my advice would be to not argue the Bible with them. I always try to bring it back to emotional and cognitive reasons for belief or unbelief. They don't know how to handle that quite so well. Example : "Some people such as yourselves are emotionally rewarded for believing in the sweeping historical drama laid out in the Bible because it gives you a sense of purpose. I find it emotionally draining and logically impossible to believe in a God who sacrifices his own son to save us from the evil he created." Then just watch the fireworks and laugh.
"On the moon our weekends are so far advanced they encompass the entire week. Jobs have been phased out. We get checks from the government, and we spend it on beer! Mexican beer! That's the cheapest of all beers." --- Ignignokt & Err

Mister Joy

Welcome Alex! :| . In this way they can lead you on a seemingly endless one-sided merry go round where victory is impossible no matter what you do or say until you eventually just give up out of lethargy and frustration. I'm betting that what you really failed to do was force them into a sensible discussion to begin with. Sadly impossible anyway because it requires both parties to be consenting, which Jehovah's witnesses very rarely are, in spite of their pretences. I think of them as glorified door-to-door salesmen, even when they aren't going door to door. With salesmen, it doesn't matter if they're trying to sell you shampoo, bird's eye photos of your house or a theistic mind set: ultimately they don't care about what you have to say or what you're actually after, all they really want is to drain you of your will so you're weak to their demands. That is their argumentative tac.

My advice to you is not to bother discussing beliefs with JWs at all. I also suggest, for the ones that do go door-to-door, that you get a German shepherd so you can let it loose on them. It cuts out the awkward rigmarole of trying to politely get them to leave, it makes for entertaining family viewage and, best of all, the conniving little sods deserve it. :evil: I have four black labs that come in handy in that respect... though the necessity is extremely rare as I don't get many random theistic advertisers turning up at my door, for which I am extremely thankful. Not thankful to God or Allah or anything but thankful to their followers for saving me the hassle of hosing their blood off the lawns.

Whitney

Hi Alex, welcome to the forum.

Am I the only one who hasn't had a JW a their door since becoming an adult even though I live in the bible belt?  Really, the last time I saw one near a place I live was when I was in high school.

rlrose328

Welcome, Alex... I hear you on the JW folks. I'm surrounded by Mormons here in the Pacific Northwest but I knew plenty of JWs when I lived in California.  Two of my staff (of 12) were JW and refused to attend the awards ceremony we had for staff one year because we rented a social hall owned by a Methodist church.  And both of them were recipients, too.  Their loss.

When they knock on my door here, I invite them to come in and listen to the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and I'll be more than happy to listen to them.  I won't be swayed, I tell them, but I reassure them I won't try to sway them in return.  I've never had a taker yet.

What is that saying... don't try to put a pig in a dress because the pig will get pissed off and you'll both get dirty?  You won't change their mind... at the ripe old age of 45, I've quit arguing with them and now, I just seek the company of like-minded folks.  Youth is for arguing.  Age (with or without wisdom) is for kicking back and watching the young argue.   lol )
**Kerri**
The Rogue Atheist Scrapbooker
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SteveS

Hey Unprofound - welcome on board!

I was a much more closet atheist until the Witnesses came knocking at my door.  I let them in too and got many return visits over many weeks.  Actually, they were nice people.  Just so you know, they reported a lot of success getting in the door and talking to atheists and agnostics.  The people who "slammed the door" on them were mostly people of other religions.  Which I find interesting.

The big thing with my visitors was biblical prophecies.  I don't have any short answers, but most of the prophecies they related to me were either under serious scholarly debate (easy to find on the web) or they were just ridiculous.  Take this number of days, turn it into years, multiply by seven for some weird reason, and bam!  1914!  Which has to be important!  (The pitch went something like this)

Anyway, if you're looking for some good arguments against theists, I think that Atheism: The Case Against God by George H. Smith is a great read.

Also, a great online evolution resource is Talk Origins.

Again - welcome on board - glad to have you!