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What would it take for you to believe in a god or gods?

Started by Dr_Pepper, June 09, 2009, 06:11:08 AM

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Dr_Pepper

[read before responding, I know its long but the question makes more sense afterwords]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke
"Ok, so I don't believe in any god. What would it take for me to be convinced?" -Dr_Pepper

Thess two thoughts lead to this next thought and question for you. Before that, let me take you on a ridiculous hypothetical journey with me:

Today's technology is amazing, and most of it wasn't even conceived 50 years ago. How would you explain television to a peasant from the middle ages? How about the Internet, or mobile phones to someone in the 20's? We have things now that weren't even a part of science fiction in the past, which are now used by each of us daily. Its pretty incredible.

That being said, there is no real reason for me to believe that this trend won't continue, that in 50 years, my grandkids will be using technology that I currently can't imagine. What about 100 years from now? 1000? How long until we become gods? How long until we can create a god? (google "the last question" if you've not read that)

So, time for that ridiculous hypothetical journey I mentioned.

Picture the technology we have now, and pretend we have a time machine. Someone travels back in time, loaded with samples of current technology. Perhaps a team, even, of scientists and specialists, and they all bring their own equipment. (keeping their methods a secret, of course), a meteorologist sees rain coming in a doplar radar, tells the people it will rain, and it rains. A geologist reads a richter scale and sees signs of an earthquake minutes before it occurs, warns the people, and the earth quakes. A physician cures a man of his disease. A farmer uses modern fertilizer and pesticides to yield a miracle-sized crop. These are just a few examples of modern day "miracles" that happen every day, thanks to technology and advancements in human knowledge.    

So how do the locals of the past tell the difference between these people and gods? There are still the issues of omnipotence and omnipresence, but otherwise, these people from the future are nothing short of divine.

So, if someone came up to you claiming to be a god, and did things that you could not explain, that seemed miraculous, would you believe him/her? Why? Remember, if a miracle is nothing but something unexplainable, and any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, then how do you know that this 'god' isn't just a higher, more intelligent species? And if it turns out that it is, in fact, a higher species, does that make them worth worshiping?

What do you think? What would you do?

I await your responds with bated breath.   ;)

curiosityandthecat

-Curio

PipeBox

Eh, I might get hosed for laughs (or whatever passes for future or alien lulz), but I've got to have some point at which I'd say "OK, you're God, then."  I mean, to put it in perspective, if someone demonstrates a device that runs off solar power to you, makes more solar panels, shows you all the theory behind them (photoelectric effect), you say "OK, you have solar power," not "Eh, there could be miniature batteries in those and your description of them and this 'photoelectric effect' might be total bunk!"  I mean, does it make any difference, so long as they continue making working solar panels or the god figure keeps on acting as the genuine article?  I'm making this forum post under the assumption you're an actual person and not a post-bot (you haven't responded to anyone yet, and even if you did, how can I determine you're genuinely involved and not payed to post to advertise DP?), and that you have a genuine interest in posting.  Likewise, even if something isn't a god, if it wants to appear as such and acts accordingly, what are you going to do?  Tell it off?  Invent more potent technology on the spot?  Nevermind if there is or isn't a punishment for insolence, what will you have accomplished by arguing with it that it isn't a god?  And finally, what if it's the genuine article?  Ask it to make you a god so you can be sure it is what it claims?  How could you be sure it hadn't made you into a lesser god so that it still appeared to be the genuine article?
If sin may be committed through inaction, God never stopped.

My soul, do not seek eternal life, but exhaust the realm of the possible.
-- Pindar

bowmore

Quote from: "Dr_Pepper"What do you think? What would you do?

I await your responds with bated breath.   ;)

Would a person from the future with superior technology be able to appear to do miracles? Certainly. If she kept the technology secret.
"Rational arguments don’t usually work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people."

House M.D.

theVastMinority

Well, it would definity take more than someone banging on my door & telling me I need to be saved.   :upset:   Seriously, I suppose I would have to be convinced that this entity was responsible for the creation of the universe or, at the very least, creation of life here on earth.  

The more interesting question for me is: Assuming I could be convinced of gods existence, would I worship him/her/it?  I have a difficult time with the whole idea of prayer and worship.  Okay, maybe it makes some folks feel better about themselves.  I can appreciate that.  I do a lot of strange stuff that makes me feel better about myself, but I won't do into details here.  I think lots of folks do it to stay on God's "good person" list.  Would this god really "blame" me for using my own logical reasoning to question his existence?  Even if I were to assume there is a "God", is this all-powerful entity really going to care about stupid little things that I do?   I'm sure he'd have bigger things to worry about.  Does it make me less worthy if I don't go to church regularly?  If a mass-murderer prays every day, does that make him better than me in the eyes of God?  I think not.  I guess what I'm saying is that, even if I were convinced there was a God, I don't think I would partake in any form of worship.

Will

Anything that is said to be supernatural but that can be explained by science, regardless of how advanced, is by it's nature not supernatural. The god of the Torah, Bible, and Qu'ran is by definition supernatural. Since the supernatural cannot exist, god cannot exist.
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

joeactor

God would have to tell me why I keep having this sense of De Ja Vu:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3267

Been there, worshipped that,
JoeActor

JillSwift

Quote from: "Will"Anything that is said to be supernatural but that can be explained by science, regardless of how advanced, is by it's nature not supernatural. The god of the Torah, Bible, and Qu'ran is by definition supernatural. Since the supernatural cannot exist, god cannot exist.
QFT

By every definition of "god(s)" I've ever heard, any being I could measure and observe the effects of could not be a god. The idea of god(s) is internally conflicting and requires impossible facets such as "supernatural" or "omniscient". Simply put: God(s) can't exist.
[size=50]Teleology]

Whitney

I've always said that it would "simply" require a rock solid logical proof of god.  So far any attempts have resembled swiss cheese.

marcelhs

Quote from: "Dr_Pepper"So, if someone came up to you claiming to be a god, and did things that you could not explain, that seemed miraculous, would you believe him/her? Why? Remember, if a miracle is nothing but something unexplainable, and any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic, then how do you know that this 'god' isn't just a higher, more intelligent species? And if it turns out that it is, in fact, a higher species, does that make them worth worshiping?

What do you think? What would you do?

I await your responds with bated breath.   ;)

I wouldn't believe it, thanks to Occam's Razor. I will agree he/she make miracles as long as we can't explain HOW he/she do it. He/she is God is one explanation, but of course there are many other possible explanation. Any explanation is simpler than "He/she can do miracles therefore he/she is God. Nothing is more complex/unexplainable than God itself. The explanation "They are God" even doesn't adress the question HOW he/she do it. It only explain the status/identity of the "Miracle Maker."

Tetsuo

One would have to know what is a god. In Christian mythology God is the name of a single supernatural being. In Greek mythology their are many gods like a species of people giving birth to those of their kind. It seems you are saying that we are godlike to people of the past with our modern technology; that however doesn't make us gods.

And to answer the question in the title of your post "What would it take for you to believe in a god or gods?". It would take proof. But even if I had proof I wouldn't worship god.

thiolsulfate

It's hard to say what would make me believe in god. It would all depend on the definition of god. Eddie Izzard said something along the lines of "If there was a divine plan, it seems like the plan was to make it look like there was no plan;" though if god actually was something like that it would be totally unprovable and not worthy of consideration.

Though to be fair, if for no intelligible reason two of every animal started traversing the planet to the Middle East to board an exaggerated life raft built by a 600 year old man, I admit I'd be impressed.

skeptic griggsy

#12
Were there a there there, I might see God. But as an ignostic, I find that the term is fatuous, meaningless, nebulous, otiose and, vacuous. Even the terms First Cause and the Designer have no referent.[So, I use Dr. Paul Kurtz's term igtheist to emphasive that.] We have the argument from pareidolia, the teleonomic/ atelic argument,  Hume's dysteological  one, the problem of Heaven, the  presumption of naturalism, the one of rationalism and the one of skepticism, the ignostic-Ockham and the hiddenness argument as our naturalist [positive atheism' case against Him. :devil:

Heretical Rants

These guys already believe in Alien Creator-Gods.

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[youtube:c3xo2cst]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7l0cJL7e4w[/youtube:c3xo2cst]

According to this, basically all religions are mostly true.

Watch it, it's funny.