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"We're praying for you!"

Started by Dobermonster, April 17, 2012, 09:43:18 PM

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Tank

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on April 19, 2012, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: Dobermonster on April 19, 2012, 06:16:43 PM
Oh ok. Then no, because it's in no way equally comparable.

Now I know what I can say and not offend the Atheist.
That would depend on the context, delivery style and your prior relationship with the atheist in question and how you would know they're an atheist in the first place. We don't all have horns nor wear a red A symbol  ;D
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

technolud

Oh, is that what the Red "A"s are for.  Always wondered.

Tank

Quote from: technolud on April 19, 2012, 07:29:25 PM
Oh, is that what the Red "A"s are for.  Always wondered.
It used to mean adulteress but fell out of fashion and was resurrected (how inappropriate) by atheists.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

ThinkAnarchy

Quote from: Tank on April 19, 2012, 07:33:18 PM
Quote from: technolud on April 19, 2012, 07:29:25 PM
Oh, is that what the Red "A"s are for.  Always wondered.
It used to mean adulteress but fell out of fashion and was resurrected (how inappropriate) by atheists.


Yeah, and here is a free online copy of The Scarlet Letter if anyone wants to read or reread it.

http://www.kids4classics.com/nathaniel_hawthorne/The-Scarlet-Letter.php
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

Dobermonster

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on April 19, 2012, 07:15:53 PM
Quote from: Dobermonster on April 19, 2012, 06:16:43 PM
Oh ok. Then no, because it's in no way equally comparable.

Now I know what I can say and not offend the Atheist.

As I said in the original post, I'm not typically offended by someone saying they want to pray on my behalf (assuming it wasn't a "Oh you poor atheist, I'll pray that God will save your soul", which I find offensive in that it's patronizing and disrespectful). It's the repetitive, overt "I'm praying for you . . . I'm praying for you... Oh, I'm still praying for you, and by the way, my pastor will be by to also pray for you and tell you scriptures out of a book I know you view as inherently offensive."

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: Dobermonster on April 19, 2012, 08:10:48 PM
As I said in the original post, I'm not typically offended by someone saying they want to pray on my behalf (assuming it wasn't a "Oh you poor atheist, I'll pray that God will save your soul", which I find offensive in that it's patronizing and disrespectful). It's the repetitive, overt "I'm praying for you . . . I'm praying for you... Oh, I'm still praying for you, and by the way, my pastor will be by to also pray for you and tell you scriptures out of a book I know you view as inherently offensive."

I get it.  In context of your point, I wouldn't say such a thing to someone I know is angered or offended at me saying, "I'll pray for you."  Lucky for me, the Atheist friends I do have have no issue whatsoever.  (I asked one over the weekend and another yesterday) Useless, yes, but not something to be angry or offended at.  I need to ask one more to complete my survey.  :)

Dobermonster

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on April 19, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
Quote from: Dobermonster on April 19, 2012, 08:10:48 PM
As I said in the original post, I'm not typically offended by someone saying they want to pray on my behalf (assuming it wasn't a "Oh you poor atheist, I'll pray that God will save your soul", which I find offensive in that it's patronizing and disrespectful). It's the repetitive, overt "I'm praying for you . . . I'm praying for you... Oh, I'm still praying for you, and by the way, my pastor will be by to also pray for you and tell you scriptures out of a book I know you view as inherently offensive."

I get it.  In context of your point, I wouldn't say such a thing to someone I know is angered or offended at me saying, "I'll pray for you."  Lucky for me, the Atheist friends I do have have no issue whatsoever.  (I asked one over the weekend and another yesterday) Useless, yes, but not something to be angry or offended at.  I need to ask one more to complete my survey.  :)

Maybe a good idea for a forum poll? I think most would not be offended.

ThinkAnarchy

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on April 19, 2012, 08:27:00 PM

I get it.  In context of your point, I wouldn't say such a thing to someone I know is angered or offended at me saying, "I'll pray for you."  Lucky for me, the Atheist friends I do have have no issue whatsoever.  (I asked one over the weekend and another yesterday) Useless, yes, but not something to be angry or offended at.  I need to ask one more to complete my survey.  :)

It depends on why the friend is praying for me. If it's something they obviously can't help with, I simply let it go and am happy they care about me. If I'm bitching about having to move, and they say they will pray for a good peaceful move, I would have to ask why they don't just volunteer to help me.  :)

I'm sure your other friend won't care either. I think most of us realize when those words are uttered from a position of love or simply social norm as opposed to, "you can't get through what your dealing with unless I ask god to help you."
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on April 19, 2012, 08:35:43 PM
It depends on why the friend is praying for me. If it's something they obviously can't help with, I simply let it go and am happy they care about me. If I'm bitching about having to move, and they say they will pray for a good peaceful move, I would have to ask why they don't just volunteer to help me.  :)

Then the better question is if they really are a friend.

Quote from: ThinkAnarchyI'm sure your other friend won't care either. I think most of us realize when those words are uttered from a position of love or simply social norm as opposed to, "you can't get through what your dealing with unless I ask god to help you."

Agreed.  However, some here still take the angry side of this and call even this rude or seemingly resort to name-calling.

I can see it can be offending to some degree and certainly in certain contexts, but I dare say more times than not, the sentiment is from the heart and not meant to offend at all.  Ignorance might even be at play, but to respond in anger or disdain for words meant to convey concern and care? 

ThinkAnarchy

#39
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on April 19, 2012, 08:56:12 PM
Quote from: ThinkAnarchy on April 19, 2012, 08:35:43 PM
It depends on why the friend is praying for me. If it's something they obviously can't help with, I simply let it go and am happy they care about me. If I'm bitching about having to move, and they say they will pray for a good peaceful move, I would have to ask why they don't just volunteer to help me.  :)

Then the better question is if they really are a friend.

Quote from: ThinkAnarchyI'm sure your other friend won't care either. I think most of us realize when those words are uttered from a position of love or simply social norm as opposed to, "you can't get through what your dealing with unless I ask god to help you."

Agreed.  However, some here still take the angry side of this and call even this rude or seemingly resort to name-calling.

I can see it can be offending to some degree and certainly in certain contexts, but I dare say more times than not, the sentiment is from the heart and not meant to offend at all.  Ignorance might even be at play, but to respond in anger or disdain for words meant to convey concern and care?  

I can't speak for everyone, but I imagine like with my Satan comment, they only would like to say those things to the condescending Christians.

I at least hope must of us are capable of judging the motivation behind the words. Granted, if I'm caught on a bad day, I might take offense to something that is harmless and was meant with the best of intentions.

The thing that pisses me off, even when it comes from a positive place, is when people pray for me to find Jesus. It is much better than continuing the conversation about god though, so I typically just let it go, but I'm sure my face expresses what I'm thinking.

Edit: Which seems to be the thing OP was complaining about, which I forgot because I read it a few days ago.  :)
"He that displays too often his wife and his wallet is in danger of having both of them borrowed." -Ben Franklin

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -credited to Franklin, but not sure.

technolud

First, is it true that red "A"s are used to identify atheists?  I was totally joking about that.  How bizarre.  Where can you get them?  I can put it next to the Darwin fish on my Civic.

Second, I'm not offended if someone wants to pray for me.  I think 99% of the time they are just trying to help in thier own way.  I would be offended if someone demanded that I pray.  I want to be able to believe what I believe.  So it should be OK for them to believe what they believe.


Tank

This is the origin and should explain what's going on The Out Campaign
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Stevil

Quote from: AnimatedDirt on April 19, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
I get it.  In context of your point, I wouldn't say such a thing to someone I know is angered or offended at me saying, "I'll pray for you."  Lucky for me, the Atheist friends I do have have no issue whatsoever.  (I asked one over the weekend and another yesterday) Useless, yes, but not something to be angry or offended at.  I need to ask one more to complete my survey.  :)
But do you really need to say it? Do those that are being prayed for need to know that they are being prayed for? A religious person might appreciate your action of prayer, they might believe that you are actually helping them, it might actually give them warm fuzzies.

But do you really need to tell the atheist? It does put them in a strange position, are they expected to thank you? Would they feel obliged to respond to the statement in some way or would it be an awkward social moment if they didn't respond or acknowledge your statement?
If you are going to pray for the atheist then do it, they don't really need to be told do they?

Dobermonster

Quote from: Stevil on April 19, 2012, 11:58:38 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on April 19, 2012, 08:27:00 PM
I get it.  In context of your point, I wouldn't say such a thing to someone I know is angered or offended at me saying, "I'll pray for you."  Lucky for me, the Atheist friends I do have have no issue whatsoever.  (I asked one over the weekend and another yesterday) Useless, yes, but not something to be angry or offended at.  I need to ask one more to complete my survey.  :)
But do you really need to say it? Do those that are being prayed for need to know that they are being prayed for? A religious person might appreciate your action of prayer, they might believe that you are actually helping them, it might actually give them warm fuzzies.

But do you really need to tell the atheist? It does put them in a strange position, are they expected to thank you? Would they feel obliged to respond to the statement in some way or would it be an awkward social moment if they didn't respond or acknowledge your statement?
If you are going to pray for the atheist then do it, they don't really need to be told do they?

It does seem to create an awkward situation . . . like when the pastor told me 'God bless you' a couple times. I know if I were a Christian, the response would be to say 'God bless you' back, but all I had to really say was, "Uh huh".

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Dobermonster on April 20, 2012, 01:08:24 AM
It does seem to create an awkward situation . . . like when the pastor told me 'God bless you' a couple times. I know if I were a Christian, the response would be to say 'God bless you' back, but all I had to really say was, "Uh huh".

I think "thank you" works as a response here, since he's essentially wishing you well.  Maybe it would depend on how well you and the pastor knew each other -- would he respond well to a wish that he be touched by a noodly appendage?  Or maybe you could just say "ramen!" and let let the other person puzzle it out.

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany