I caught wind of this site through the grapevine and thought it'd be an interesting place to check into.
I am a former atheist myself. I've always valued truth more and I continue to seek it whole-heartedly today. I am now a Roman Catholic and, within the next year, I will be consecrating myself to God as a religious sister, making vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Quite the jump from a former atheist!
Anyways, I'm not here to preach. I'm more than willing to share my beliefs to all who ask, but if/when I enter into any discussions, I'd prefer to work with philosophy and reason alone.
Mostly I'm just interested in everyone else's experiences and beliefs.
So, hello!
Wow... quite the journey.
Welcome to HAF!
Hi Teresa
Welcome to HAF
Regards
Chris
Good luck on your journey to poverty, chastity, and obedience. Sounds like lots of fun.
Congratulations on your choice of church also.
I've been to the vatican twice now. It's the most palacial, extravagant and wealthy church I have ever seen. I'm sure your tithes will be put to great use.
BTW, welcome.
Hello Teresa.
Welcome to HAF. I hope we can persuade you not to throw your life away for a non-existent sky daddy.
I hope you're not offended by that.
Maria.
Welcome to HAF!
Hey Teresa!
I too am a Roman Catholic! hahaha. You might know me as my alter-ego from Phatmass: BigJon16 ;D
Are we starting the second FBC? hahahahaha
And god bless, and welcome to HAF!
Welcome! ;D
Hello and welcome to the forum.
Thanks for the welcome, everyone.
Quote from: Maria on May 04, 2011, 09:37:41 AM
Hello Teresa.
Welcome to HAF. I hope we can persuade you not to throw your life away for a non-existent sky daddy.
I hope you're not offended by that.
Maria.
Nah, not offended in the least. It's interesting to think about, though. What if, at the end of my life, I did come to find that God did not exist? What would I think of my life decision(s) then? I think I'd be okay with it... because, at the very least, I dedicated myself to helping and serving others in a radical way. And I lived a fulfilled, if not ignorant, life.
Do you think society and god is best served by you denying yourself a human existence?
Do you think that you can truly get close to god without experiencing mortal love? The special emotional bond between a husband and wife and also between a parent and child is the deepest and most fulfilling form of love that a mere mortal person can experience. But the thing about love is that there is an endless supply of it. Just because you may have formed loving relationships with humans, it doesn't mean you will love your god any less.
Do you think that living a life by being a full time worker at a humanitary styled job e.g. helping special needs children, being a social worker, having a full time role in a Charity organisation ensuring funds are best used to support those in need, do you think these types of roles might serve humanity and god best rather than a life in church?
Are you happy that the Catholic church view women as somewhat less than that of a man? There will never be a woman pope or a woman arch bishop. Do you want to support this stance and promote it?
Quote from: Stevil on May 04, 2011, 07:32:45 AM
Good luck on your journey to poverty, chastity, and obedience. Sounds like lots of fun.
Congratulations on your choice of church also.
I've been to the vatican twice now. It's the most palacial, extravagant and wealthy church I have ever seen. I'm sure your tithes will be put to great use.
BTW, welcome.
I hope to go and visit someday.
You're not the first to comment on the extravagant nature & beauty of the churches. The thinking behind it has to do with fighting spiritual poverty, as well as material poverty. Beauty can & does lift the mind & heart to God. It can take one's breath away. It can remind one that they are truly human. I'd be more pessimistic about it if the Catholic Church wasn't one of the biggest proponents of fighting material poverty.
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 04, 2011, 08:20:49 PM
I'd be more pessimistic about it if the Catholic Church wasn't one of the biggest proponents of fighting material poverty.
I'm sorry, I'm confussed.
They fight material poverty by getting you to take a vow of (material) poverty?
Quote from: Stevil on May 04, 2011, 08:11:21 PM
Do you think society and god is best served by you denying yourself a human existence?
Hm.
Will I be living a life less than human as a religious? Obviously I'd object to that caricature. Even on a natural or philosophical level. Poverty- there are billions of people who live in poverty... are they living an authentically human existence? I'd say so. Chastity- there are many, many people who choose not to get married or live without sex... are they living an authentically human existence? I'd say so. Obedience- there are many people who willing choose to be obedient to another (I'm thinking military personnel)... are they living an authentically human existence? Yes, I'd say so.
I don't think that, choosing this life of my own free will, denies myself a human existence. In fact, I'd say that it makes my existence all the more authentically human precisely because it is chosen of my own free will.
QuoteDo you think that you can truly get close to god without experiencing mortal love? The special emotional bond between a husband and wife and also between a parent and child is the deepest and most fulfilling form of love that a mere mortal person can experience. But the thing about love is that there is an endless supply of it. Just because you may have formed loving relationships with humans, it doesn't mean you will love your god any less.
I don't disagree with anything here that you've said. For many people, marriage and the love expressed therein is precisely how they will best love God. I don't look down on married love by any means. But my calling is love in a more universal, although no less passionate way. True, I will not have sex, but that is not the only way to express one's love. My spousal bond will be with God.
QuoteDo you think that living a life by being a full time worker at a humanitary styled job e.g. helping special needs children, being a social worker, having a full time role in a Charity organisation ensuring funds are best used to support those in need, do you think these types of roles might serve humanity and god best rather than a life in church?
Many of these will be the sort of works that I will be doing, coupled of course with prayer and community life.
QuoteAre you happy that the Catholic church view women as somewhat less than that of a man? There will never be a woman pope or a woman arch bishop. Do you want to support this stance and promote it?
I don't agree with the premise-- "that the Catholic church views women as somewhat less than that of a man." 'Women priests' is not an equality issue by any means. The nature (essence) of the priesthood is inherently male. Just as it is impossible for a male to conceive and bring to term a child, so is it impossible for a female to be ordained into the ministerial priesthood.
Quote from: Stevil on May 04, 2011, 08:34:13 PM
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 04, 2011, 08:20:49 PM
I'd be more pessimistic about it if the Catholic Church wasn't one of the biggest proponents of fighting material poverty.
I'm sorry, I'm confussed.
They fight material poverty by getting you to take a vow of (material) poverty?
I was more thinking along the lines of the countless charities ran and operated by the Catholic Church and her members. But, I think you make a point. Those within the Church that have made a vow of material poverty do a lot for the poor as well. They live their lives serving those most in need. They are the 'grunt' work, in many cases. The ones actually out there hand-feeding those who are too weak to even eat. Bathing those who've gone years without a bath. Educating those who otherwise would have no education. Etc.
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 04, 2011, 08:40:35 PM
Just as it is impossible for a male to conceive and bring to term a child, so is it impossible for a female to be ordained into the ministerial priesthood.
It's physically impossible for a female to be ordained into ministerial priesthood.
Not simply an outdated sexist rule?
Quote from: Stevil on May 04, 2011, 08:51:39 PM
It's physically impossible for a female to be ordained into ministerial priesthood.
Not simply an outdated sexist rule?
If there weren't solid theological reasons for it, I'd definitely agree. I won't go into the theology behind it all (I'm sure y'all will thank me for not boring you to death... I can get long-winded, since I studied philosophy and theology formally). But even from a practical point of view... if the male-only priesthood were merely cultural during the founding of the Church and the centuries thereafter, then the Church would have had no reason to develop theological reasons for a male-only priesthood. Discrimination based-off of sex was natural and expected at the time. Certainly in no need of a proper defense, like it is today.
Once you get past 50 posts don't be surprised if I start a thread about why it makes no sense that having a vagina would disqualify someone from being a church leader. :D
Quote from: Whitney on May 04, 2011, 09:01:07 PM
Once you get past 50 posts don't be surprised if I start a thread about why it makes no sense that having a vagina would disqualify someone from being a church leader. :D
Haha, no worries. ;)
These sorts of discussions are interesting to me- I wonder, though, how helpful they'll be, considering that we're discussing from the standpoint of two different traditions (and by that I mean, wholly different philosophical traditions). But that's just the philosopher in me. :)
Welcome to the forum, Theresa! Thanks for the introduction.
I will remind forum members that the introductions are not the appropriate place for in depth discussion of topics. Neither are they for you to be sarcastic or nasty in your "Welcome" messages to new members. When I figure out how to split topics, I will split this off at the right spot.
As always, please keep it civil.
Quote from: McQ on May 04, 2011, 10:29:11 PM
I will remind forum members that the introductions are not the appropriate place for in depth discussion of topics. Neither are they for you to be sarcastic or nasty in your "Welcome" messages to new members.
As always, please keep it civil.
OK, point taken. I have delved into sarcasm a little, but TeresaBenedicta has been very civil in her responses, and I thought the conversation was going reasonably well.
I am keen to get into the detail but have refrained due to the 50 posts constraint. I am so keen to get her to 50 that I want to encourage her to post many responses.
BTW, TeresaBenedicta, how old are you? What country do you live in?
Quote from: Stevil on May 04, 2011, 10:49:17 PM
BTW, TeresaBenedicta, how old are you? What country do you live in?
I'm 22 years old, living in the USA. I converted to Catholicism at the age of 18- before that I was an atheist.
Quote from: McQ on May 04, 2011, 10:29:11 PM
Welcome to the forum, Theresa! Thanks for the introduction.
I will remind forum members that the introductions are not the appropriate place for in depth discussion of topics. Neither are they for you to be sarcastic or nasty in your "Welcome" messages to new members. When I figure out how to split topics, I will split this off at the right spot.
As always, please keep it civil.
Thanks, McQ. Sorry for getting off into too much discussion!
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 04, 2011, 11:04:58 PM
I'm 22 years old, living in the USA. I converted to Catholicism at the age of 18- before that I was an atheist.
From the few posts you have made here I feel you seem to have a high EQ for a 22 year old.
I myself am much more immature and less tactful at the ripe age of 37.
My country of origin and residence in New Zealand. Been to Europe a couple of times but never to the American continent.
Do you like to travel? Have you been anywhere interesting?
An eye opener for me was my visit to Vanuatu, it was my second honeymoon, actually anniversary of our first year of marriage.
Vanuatu is quite a third world type of country. I would love it if everyone could experience the third world at least once in their lifetime.
Quote from: Stevil on May 05, 2011, 12:04:16 AM
From the few posts you have made here I feel you seem to have a high EQ for a 22 year old.
I myself am much more immature and less tactful at the ripe age of 37.
My country of origin and residence in New Zealand. Been to Europe a couple of times but never to the American continent.
Do you like to travel? Have you been anywhere interesting?
An eye opener for me was my visit to Vanuatu, it was my second honeymoon, actually anniversary of our first year of marriage.
Vanuatu is quite a third world type of country. I would love it if everyone could experience the third world at least once in their lifetime.
Ah- I'm jealous of your travels!
Unfortunately I've not managed to make a dent in my traveling dreams. I've been around the States quite a bit, which has been neat.
Where is your favorite place you've visited so far?
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 05, 2011, 12:46:26 AM
Ah- I'm jealous of your travels!
Unfortunately I've not managed to make a dent in my traveling dreams. I've been around the States quite a bit, which has been neat.
Where is your favorite place you've visited so far?
I seem to have a strange fascination for water fountains and water in general. One of my favourite places with regards to man made is the Trevi Fountain in Rome. It is so, beautiful. I had to visit it both during the daytime and during the night time on both my visits to Rome.
The ruins in Rome were also quite special, given their 2,000 year history.
Another man made area of my liking was in Paris a road called Champs Elysis. At the opposite end of the Arch de Triump, there is a bridge and a couple of historic buildings, lots of statues, trees and you can see the Eiffle tower. I found myself in a physical state of euphoria, it was all so magnificent and beautiful.
With regards to nature, My favourite places are Switzerland, especially Interlaken, unfortunately it was cloudy the whole week that I was there so could see much of the mountains and couldn't see any view from the top of Mt Shilthorn.
I also like the South Island in NZ (particulary Queenstown) and Bilbao in Spain was nice. And Phuket in Thailand was also a highlight (I have many fantastic postcard worthy photos of that trip)
Quote from: Stevil on May 05, 2011, 02:25:57 AM
I seem to have a strange fascination for water fountains and water in general. One of my favourite places with regards to man made is the Trevi Fountain in Rome. It is so, beautiful. I had to visit it both during the daytime and during the night time on both my visits to Rome.
The ruins in Rome were also quite special, given their 2,000 year history.
Another man made area of my liking was in Paris a road called Champs Elysis. At the opposite end of the Arch de Triump, there is a bridge and a couple of historic buildings, lots of statues, trees and you can see the Eiffle tower. I found myself in a physical state of euphoria, it was all so magnificent and beautiful.
With regards to nature, My favourite places are Switzerland, especially Interlaken, unfortunately it was cloudy the whole week that I was there so could see much of the mountains and couldn't see any view from the top of Mt Shilthorn.
I also like the South Island in NZ (particulary Queenstown) and Bilbao in Spain was nice. And Phuket in Thailand was also a highlight (I have many fantastic postcard worthy photos of that trip)
So many wonderful places! I'd love to see them all.
My biggest dream is to travel to Europe via ship. I love, love, love the ocean!
Do you speak any foreign languages?
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 05, 2011, 05:11:00 AM
My biggest dream is to travel to Europe via ship. I love, love, love the ocean!
Do you speak any foreign languages?
A cruise around the Mediteranian is on my todo list. But probably not until the kids are 20 or so, which means I will be about 57-60 which feels too old to do the rigourous exploring that I would like to do.
When our kids are of a decent age we will take them to Asia, China and Malaysia so they can learn a bit out half of their genetic identity. I feel it is very important.
My Wife speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, English, Malay. I unfortunately only know English with a very little Mandarin. I can say Hello is lots of languages though and even count to ten in quite a few. Would have loved to learn another language, unfortunately time is the most precious resource in life and oppourtunity for language exposure in NZ is very limited.
How about you, any languages?
Welcome TeresaBenedicta!
Like Stevil said, you seem to be very mature for a 22 year old, though I cringe at the thought of someone your age making a life altering decision such as consecrating yourself as a religious sister. I disagree with Stevil on the authentically human existence, it's just a very different type of life, though thinking as an atheist, not as good as it could be.
And yes, it really is quite the leap from atheism, what caused you to convert? What was it like?
Quote from: Stevil on May 05, 2011, 02:25:57 AM
And Phuket in Thailand was also a highlight (I have many fantastic postcard worthy photos of that trip)
I almost went to Phuket about 14 years ago (just before a tsunami hit, if I recall correctly) but went to Mauritius instead. Highly recommended place to visit, especially if you like beaches with warm water clear enough to go snorkeling. They still have some coral reefs.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 08:46:59 AM
I disagree with Stevil on the authentically human existence
the essence of what I was saying was that I thought it was dehumanising to deny yourself the ability to love another human, by this, I don't mean sex. I mean the extremely close bond of a husband and wife. We are social creatures and it is only natural to want love and close companionship. I don't know what the benefit would be of making a pledge against such a relationship. What if a wonderful person comes along that you enjoy their company? Surly Christianity can see the value in love.
Anyway, we can't delve into more detail until 50 posts.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 08:46:59 AM
I almost went to Phuket about 14 years ago (just before a tsunami hit, if I recall correctly) but went to Mauritius instead. Highly recommended place to visit, especially if you like beaches with warm water clear enough to go snorkeling. They still have some coral reefs.
I have only been snorkling twice, the first time was at Hideaway island in Vanuatu, it was amasing, I forgot I was in water and thought i was flying over an amazing terrain.
Quote from: Stevil on May 05, 2011, 07:55:05 AM
A cruise around the Mediteranian is on my todo list. But probably not until the kids are 20 or so, which means I will be about 57-60 which feels too old to do the rigourous exploring that I would like to do.
When our kids are of a decent age we will take them to Asia, China and Malaysia so they can learn a bit out half of their genetic identity. I feel it is very important.
My Wife speaks Mandarin, Cantonese, English, Malay. I unfortunately only know English with a very little Mandarin. I can say Hello is lots of languages though and even count to ten in quite a few. Would have loved to learn another language, unfortunately time is the most precious resource in life and oppourtunity for language exposure in NZ is very limited.
How about you, any languages?
((Normally I'd consolidate in my responses... but seeing as I'm trying to reach 50, I'm cheating a bit and answering each person separately.))
Send the kids off to relatives! J/k. How many kids do you have?
Wow- good for your wife! I am much like you, I can say a few different phrases in a few different languages, but that's about it. I took some Spanish back in high school... although not enough to speak it well. And I took a year of Greek during college. THAT was a lot of fun.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 08:46:59 AM
Welcome TeresaBenedicta!
Like Stevil said, you seem to be very mature for a 22 year old, though I cringe at the thought of someone your age making a life altering decision such as consecrating yourself as a religious sister. I disagree with Stevil on the authentically human existence, it's just a very different type of life, though thinking as an atheist, not as good as it could be.
And yes, it really is quite the leap from atheism, what caused you to convert? What was it like?
Thanks for the welcome!
Well, the nice thing about such a big decision is that it's not immediate. Unlike somebody my age getting married, which happens right away, it takes a total of seven years before everything is "official." So there's a timeline in place to really make sure this is what a person wants to do, of their own free-will. For example, there's a year to two years of what is called "postulancy" where one partakes in the community life, but is not a member yet. Both the individual and the community are mutually discerning whether the individual "fits" and is ready. Then there's a year to two years of what is called the "novitiate" during which the individual receives the religious habit and a new name and begins an intense study of the life. Mutual discernment continues. After this, there is the opportunity for "first vows", which are binding only for a year at a time. A sister makes these vows three (up to five) times, each for a year. Mutual discernment continues. ONLY AFTER all of this does an individual make life-long vows. One can (and many do) discern out of the life prior to final vows.
It's definitely helpful to me to know that there's a lot of discernment that goes on. That one decision, right now, is final. I hope it does go all the way, of course. But there is definitely time to get out if I discover I've made a mistake.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 08:46:59 AM
And yes, it really is quite the leap from atheism, what caused you to convert? What was it like?
Oops, missed this one.
I won't go into the whole 'story' here, as I could see it leading into the deeper sorts of discussions that I think are restricted until after 50 posts.
But, in general, it was very difficult. Especially with my family. I guess probably the same experience many atheists have had with their Christian families, except the opposite. I was born and raised in, well, probably a more agnostic than atheist household. But one that was definitely anti-theist. So it was difficult for my parents and extended family. It was difficult for me on a number of levels. But I had discovered truth and I
had to follow it.
Quote from: Stevil on May 05, 2011, 09:23:01 AM
the essence of what I was saying was that I thought it was dehumanising to deny yourself the ability to love another human, by this, I don't mean sex. I mean the extremely close bond of a husband and wife. We are social creatures and it is only natural to want love and close companionship. I don't know what the benefit would be of making a pledge against such a relationship. What if a wonderful person comes along that you enjoy their company? Surly Christianity can see the value in love.
Anyway, we can't delve into more detail until 50 posts.
Trust me- the religious life is ANYTHING but denying true, authentic, deep love. Although, I do admit, this is a common misconception. Hopefully after 50 we can go deeper.
And I do have to chuckle (in a nice, non-sarcastic way :) ) at your statement, "Surely Christianity can see the value in love." Absolutely! Love IS Christianity. It's what it's all about.
Everything comes back to love. Now it's just understanding
how, for example, religious life could be about love. Which again, is for after 50.
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 05, 2011, 05:02:33 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 08:46:59 AM
Welcome TeresaBenedicta!
Like Stevil said, you seem to be very mature for a 22 year old, though I cringe at the thought of someone your age making a life altering decision such as consecrating yourself as a religious sister. I disagree with Stevil on the authentically human existence, it's just a very different type of life, though thinking as an atheist, not as good as it could be.
And yes, it really is quite the leap from atheism, what caused you to convert? What was it like?
Thanks for the welcome!
Well, the nice thing about such a big decision is that it's not immediate. Unlike somebody my age getting married, which happens right away, it takes a total of seven years before everything is "official." So there's a timeline in place to really make sure this is what a person wants to do, of their own free-will. For example, there's a year to two years of what is called "postulancy" where one partakes in the community life, but is not a member yet. Both the individual and the community are mutually discerning whether the individual "fits" and is ready. Then there's a year to two years of what is called the "novitiate" during which the individual receives the religious habit and a new name and begins an intense study of the life. Mutual discernment continues. After this, there is the opportunity for "first vows", which are binding only for a year at a time. A sister makes these vows three (up to five) times, each for a year. Mutual discernment continues. ONLY AFTER all of this does an individual make life-long vows. One can (and many do) discern out of the life prior to final vows.
It's definitely helpful to me to know that there's a lot of discernment that goes on. That one decision, right now, is final. I hope it does go all the way, of course. But there is definitely time to get out if I discover I've made a mistake.
The process your describing
should be applied to marriage. With a further process for having children.
I echo that you are quite beyond your years.
What happens if, against odds, you change your mind after you've been a sister for 20 years? I was passionately devoted to theater, in much the way of a religious acolyte, for over 15 years. Now I've given it up entirely as a bad job. Happens sometimes, you know.
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 05, 2011, 05:42:12 PM
The process your describing should be applied to marriage. With a further process for having children.
I echo that you are quite beyond your years.
What happens if, against odds, you change your mind after you've been a sister for 20 years? I was passionately devoted to theater, in much the way of a religious acolyte, for over 15 years. Now I've given it up entirely as a bad job. Happens sometimes, you know.
Hm. Well, there is nobody holding a gun against your head- you are free to leave at any point in time, even if after 20 years. There are ways for being dispensed from your vows. I'd imagine it would be a painful event, just as any long-time marriage ending in divorce is painful. But yes, you are free to leave at any point in time. In fact I know of (and work with) a few ex-nuns. Who are still active and involved in the Church. Same with former (or layicized) priests.
It's interesting that our society has become very nervous when it comes to making life-long commitments. I can't tell you the number of times that I've heard, "At least wait until you're 35, live a little, explore
everything and then make your decision." I suppose some of that is to be expected-- our youth are maturing at a slower rate than in ages past. Heck, I know of some of my classmates from college who are getting married and I think they have no idea what they're getting into.
On the other hand, there's the fear that commitment means a loss of freedom that invades this thinking. I suppose I view it a little bit differently. I think commitment, maturely made, brings greater freedom. One is free to live their chosen life without the constant tug of the "other" pulling at them.
Try this. Do this. Could be better over here. How do you know if you haven't tried it? That sort of thing.
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 05, 2011, 06:08:22 PM
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 05, 2011, 05:42:12 PM
The process your describing should be applied to marriage. With a further process for having children.
I echo that you are quite beyond your years.
What happens if, against odds, you change your mind after you've been a sister for 20 years? I was passionately devoted to theater, in much the way of a religious acolyte, for over 15 years. Now I've given it up entirely as a bad job. Happens sometimes, you know.
Hm. Well, there is nobody holding a gun against your head- you are free to leave at any point in time, even if after 20 years. There are ways for being dispensed from your vows. I'd imagine it would be a painful event, just as any long-time marriage ending in divorce is painful. But yes, you are free to leave at any point in time. In fact I know of (and work with) a few ex-nuns. Who are still active and involved in the Church. Same with former (or layicized) priests.
It's interesting that our society has become very nervous when it comes to making life-long commitments. I can't tell you the number of times that I've heard, "At least wait until you're 35, live a little, explore everything and then make your decision." I suppose some of that is to be expected-- our youth are maturing at a slower rate than in ages past. Heck, I know of some of my classmates from college who are getting married and I think they have no idea what they're getting into.
On the other hand, there's the fear that commitment means a loss of freedom that invades this thinking. I suppose I view it a little bit differently. I think commitment, maturely made, brings greater freedom. One is free to live their chosen life without the constant tug of the "other" pulling at them. Try this. Do this. Could be better over here. How do you know if you haven't tried it? That sort of thing.
Another mature and cogent riposte :). And there are philosophical systems that argue that in order to act, there must at least be some basic constraints to define our choices. I do have some sympathy with this. I couldn't multi-task with life paths - I can't even mutli-task on my computer. When I was acting, I often had life demands, self-imposed, that conflicted and just destroyed my focus and my ability to pursue what was ostensibly my life purpose. To pursue professional acting requires singular focus and dedication, otherwise you have no chance. Relationships even get in the way: they have conflicting demands (stability, family, money). So I have some understanding of what you say.
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 05, 2011, 06:34:46 PM
Another mature and cogent riposte :). And there are philosophical systems that argue that in order to act, there must at least be some basic constraints to define our choices. I do have some sympathy with this. I couldn't multi-task with life paths - I can't even mutli-task on my computer. When I was acting, I often had life demands, self-imposed, that conflicted and just destroyed my focus and my ability to pursue what was ostensibly my life purpose. To pursue professional acting requires singular focus and dedication, otherwise you have no chance. Relationships even get in the way: they have conflicting demands (stability, family, money). So I have some understanding of what you say.
That makes sense. There are certain paths/ways/states of life that require a more... focused approach. (This is part of the reason the Church maintains the discipline of celibacy in the priesthood- having a family, plus trying to do priestly duties... it can cause exactly the friction you speak of.) The difficulty comes when, after we've made a decision that also eliminates other options, we desire those options. When that happens, it's vital to have prudence. Changing career paths may very well be a prudent decision (sounds like it was for you!). On the other hand, when you marry a particular person, it eliminates your ability to be with another individual. What is the prudent thing when the other individual comes along? In all of these things you have to determine whether your initial commitment is worth more to you than the opportunity in front of you now.
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 05, 2011, 05:02:33 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 08:46:59 AM
Welcome TeresaBenedicta!
Like Stevil said, you seem to be very mature for a 22 year old, though I cringe at the thought of someone your age making a life altering decision such as consecrating yourself as a religious sister. I disagree with Stevil on the authentically human existence, it's just a very different type of life, though thinking as an atheist, not as good as it could be.
And yes, it really is quite the leap from atheism, what caused you to convert? What was it like?
Thanks for the welcome!
Well, the nice thing about such a big decision is that it's not immediate. Unlike somebody my age getting married, which happens right away, it takes a total of seven years before everything is "official." So there's a timeline in place to really make sure this is what a person wants to do, of their own free-will. For example, there's a year to two years of what is called "postulancy" where one partakes in the community life, but is not a member yet. Both the individual and the community are mutually discerning whether the individual "fits" and is ready. Then there's a year to two years of what is called the "novitiate" during which the individual receives the religious habit and a new name and begins an intense study of the life. Mutual discernment continues. After this, there is the opportunity for "first vows", which are binding only for a year at a time. A sister makes these vows three (up to five) times, each for a year. Mutual discernment continues. ONLY AFTER all of this does an individual make life-long vows. One can (and many do) discern out of the life prior to final vows.
It's definitely helpful to me to know that there's a lot of discernment that goes on. That one decision, right now, is final. I hope it does go all the way, of course. But there is definitely time to get out if I discover I've made a mistake.
I see. Well, not as bad I guess. I had the outdated idea that it was immediate and forced upon people who might not want to live that kind of life or express their feelings of love towards their gods in different ways.
I'm curious about: how do you reconcile "Christianity is the religion of love" with the god of the bible? One more question for when you reach 50 posts :)
Hi! Like TeresaBenedicta, I'm also a Catholic who caught wind of this site, so I suppose I can answer some questions too. What did you mean specifically about the "God of the bible"? I only ask this because there are many different viewpoints and angles that he can be looked at from the scriptures, and I don't want to assume which one you're talking about. That could get confusing if you and I were thinking of separate things, eh?
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 09:18:18 PM
I see. Well, not as bad I guess. I had the outdated idea that it was immediate and forced upon people who might not want to live that kind of life or express their feelings of love towards their gods in different ways.
I'm curious about: how do you reconcile "Christianity is the religion of love" with the god of the bible? One more question for when you reach 50 posts :)
Nah, it's anything but forced.
I can see where you're going with your question. ;) We'll get to it in due time (fifty posts is taking some time!). I will say that two considerations will go into what you're asking: first, the definition of love and second, the necessity of an interpretive 'key' to reading the Bible- that is to say, Jesus Christ.
Quote from: MariaFaustina212 on May 05, 2011, 10:08:43 PM
Hi! Like TeresaBenedicta, I'm also a Catholic who caught wind of this site, so I suppose I can answer some questions too. What did you mean specifically about the "God of the bible"? I only ask this because there are many different viewpoints and angles that he can be looked at from the scriptures, and I don't want to assume which one you're talking about. That could get confusing if you and I were thinking of separate things, eh?
Well then, I extend a welcome to you too :)
Well the bible is a tricky book, because as believer could say that it's
all either 'true' or 'inspired' or just some parts of it are. If the latter, then the main question falls on: which parts?
With the god of the bible, my question is more or less in the same context. He's merciful and the embodiment of love in some parts, but a cruel sadistically evil monster in others, even in the new testament. The bible can't even reconcile with its own contradictions, so how do people who believe it?
But anyways, that is not a topic for the introductions section. I'm just skimming on the surface here...
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2011, 11:09:03 PM
Well the bible is a tricky book, because as believer could say that it's all either 'true' or 'inspired' or just some parts of it are. If the latter, then the main question falls on: which parts?
With the god of the bible, my question is more or less in the same context. He's merciful and the embodiment of love in some parts, but a cruel sadistically evil monster in others, even in the new testament. The bible can't even reconcile with its own contradictions, so how do people who believe it?
But anyways, that is not a topic for the introductions section. I'm just skimming on the surface here...
Pretty on par for the course. And fair questions. Hopefully we can get to it at some point.
((A general note: I apologize for the influx of Catholic visitors as of late- I suppose a pretty natural outcome when a site is mention on a different forum. I just want to make clear again that I'm not here with any intention to preach or troll, although I'm happy to answer any questions folks throw at me... My background as an atheist lends me to have a particular interest in atheism and its various forms. It's still a part of my life even if it no longer a worldview by which I subscribe.))
Diversity keeps things interesting ;)
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 05, 2011, 11:18:34 PM
A general note: I apologize for the influx of Catholic visitors as of late-
No need to apologize. It's great to have a bunch of Catholics on the site. It's a flavour of Christianity that I have not discussed before, but have some media based exposure. The Exorcist movies, Vampire movies and the such. Hear stuff on the news about statements from the Pope.
My perception isn't that great so I would love to discuss and clarify some of this stuff.
By the way what would you call a collection of Catholics? You know, like a murder of crows, or a gaggle of geese, or a herd of cows?
Hello, welcome! :D
Quote from: Stevil on May 06, 2011, 10:40:46 AM
No need to apologize. It's great to have a bunch of Catholics on the site. It's a flavour of Christianity that I have not discussed before, but have some media based exposure. The Exorcist movies, Vampire movies and the such. Hear stuff on the news about statements from the Pope.
My perception isn't that great so I would love to discuss and clarify some of this stuff.
By the way what would you call a collection of Catholics? You know, like a murder of crows, or a gaggle of geese, or a herd of cows?
:D
Not sure, but wherever there's four Catholics, there's bound to be a Fifth!! :D
You're always on here...like me! You certainly seem to have a lot of focus towards us lost souls: ;D
I was thinking a flock of Catholics, but wasn't sure if that could be seen as derogitory.
Isn't there a phrase "the lord is my shepherd"?
I'm not sure what to call a group of Athiests?
Maybe an anarchy of Atheists?
Quote from: Stevil on May 06, 2011, 08:22:12 PM
I was thinking a flock of Catholics, but wasn't sure if that could be seen as derogitory.
Isn't there a phrase "the lord is my shepherd"?
I was thinking that too.
Quote from: Stevil on May 06, 2011, 08:22:12 PM
I was thinking a flock of Catholics, but wasn't sure if that could be seen as derogitory.
Isn't there a phrase "the lord is my shepherd"?
I'm not sure what to call a group of Athiests?
Maybe an anarchy of Atheists?
Flock sounds good, not derogatory at all. As for Atheists... how about an avalon of Atheists (avalon is the term for a group of albatross)? I think that sounds pretty cool ;D Hope it doesn't sound derogatory, not meant to be.
Why albatrosses?
I think "group of" is simple and effective. I don't really care what word a person chooses to use: group, flock, gaggle, herd, murder... well maybe "a murder of Catholics" or "a murder of atheists" might be too easily confused with something else.
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 07:18:03 PM
You're always on here...like me! You certainly seem to have a lot of focus towards us lost souls: ;D
Nah, just not a lot of focus at work ;)
Sad day- nobody got my Catholic joke. :( A fifth... like a fifth of liquor. :D (Sorry, I crack myself up sometimes.)
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 06, 2011, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 07:18:03 PM
You're always on here...like me! You certainly seem to have a lot of focus towards us lost souls: ;D
Nah, just not a lot of focus at work ;)
Sad day- nobody got my Catholic joke. :( A fifth... like a fifth of liquor. :D (Sorry, I crack myself up sometimes.)
No, no...I got it!
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 06, 2011, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 07:18:03 PM
You're always on here...like me! You certainly seem to have a lot of focus towards us lost souls: ;D
Nah, just not a lot of focus at work ;)
Sad day- nobody got my Catholic joke. :( A fifth... like a fifth of liquor. :D (Sorry, I crack myself up sometimes.)
I've just done an internet search. A fifth of a gallon huh, we use metric system in NZ, much easier.
Quote from: Stevil on May 06, 2011, 09:41:06 PM
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 06, 2011, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 07:18:03 PM
You're always on here...like me! You certainly seem to have a lot of focus towards us lost souls: ;D
Nah, just not a lot of focus at work ;)
Sad day- nobody got my Catholic joke. :( A fifth... like a fifth of liquor. :D (Sorry, I crack myself up sometimes.)
I've just done an internet search. A fifth of a gallon huh, we use metric system in NZ, much easier.
Oi. Trust me. It would be
much easier if we bloody Americans would just switch over. Metric makes much more sense and is much more widely used.
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 06, 2011, 09:49:12 PM
Quote from: Stevil on May 06, 2011, 09:41:06 PM
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 06, 2011, 09:09:24 PM
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 07:18:03 PM
You're always on here...like me! You certainly seem to have a lot of focus towards us lost souls: ;D
Nah, just not a lot of focus at work ;)
Sad day- nobody got my Catholic joke. :( A fifth... like a fifth of liquor. :D (Sorry, I crack myself up sometimes.)
I've just done an internet search. A fifth of a gallon huh, we use metric system in NZ, much easier.
Oi. Trust me. It would be much easier if we bloody Americans would just switch over. Metric makes much more sense and is much more widely used.
Agreed. You won't remember this, because you're, like,
22 and you were barely born in the 80's but the metric system was adopted in the US for like a week in the 70's. Wasn't terribly popular.
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 09:53:35 PM
Agreed. You won't remember this, because you're, like, 22 and you were barely born in the 80's but the metric system was adopted in the US for like a week in the 70's. Wasn't terribly popular.
Well, there was a lot going on in the 70s, with many other popular movements that probably didn't include the metric system. ;)
I'd be curious if it would take better these days. Most of the sciences strictly use the metric system as it is.
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 09:53:35 PM
Agreed. You won't remember this, because you're, like, 22 and you were barely born in the 80's but the metric system was adopted in the US for like a week in the 70's. Wasn't terribly popular.
People are very resistent to change. We are creatures of habit.
Quote from: Stevil on May 06, 2011, 10:05:32 PM
People are very resistent to change. We are creatures of habit.
It's an interesting tension, isn't it? The push for progress and innovation... and the resistance to change.
Creates quite the dynamic.
Quote from: TeresaBenedicta on May 06, 2011, 10:13:12 PM
Quote from: Stevil on May 06, 2011, 10:05:32 PM
People are very resistent to change. We are creatures of habit.
It's an interesting tension, isn't it? The push for progress and innovation... and the resistance to change.
Creates quite the dynamic.
At times it creates a strange synthesis of the traditional and the progressive.
Almost there, TeresaBenedicta! (to 50, I mean)...
Quote from: The Black Jester on May 06, 2011, 10:15:50 PM
At times it creates a strange synthesis of the traditional and the progressive.
Almost there, TeresaBenedicta! (to 50, I mean)...
Take what is good from the old and go forward. That's my motto, anyways.
Y'all are distracting me from my work... but I'm
almost there (cue in "Princess and the Frog" music)!
Quote from: amppax on May 06, 2011, 08:33:41 PM
Flock sounds good, not derogatory at all. As for Atheists... how about an avalon of Atheists (avalon is the term for a group of albatross)? I think that sounds pretty cool ;D Hope it doesn't sound derogatory, not meant to be.
Does sound nice but I don't know what it means (maybe it doesn't have to have a meaning).
Going by the poem "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" the albatros is the bird of good omen.
That could have a good spin to it.
Many moons ago at Richard Dawkins Forum I started a thread about what the collective noun for atheists could be, I think it was quite insightful that we couldn't reach a conclusion! I think my favourite was a heard as in 'heard of cats'. Another that I recall was a 'Dawkins of Atheists' :D
Quote from: Tank on May 08, 2011, 08:19:38 PM
Many moons ago at Richard Dawkins Forum I started a thread about what the collective noun for atheists could be, I think it was quite insightful that we couldn't reach a conclusion! I think my favourite was a heard as in 'heard of cats'. Another that I recall was a 'Dawkins of Atheists' :D
lol A Dawkins of athiests...love it! :D
Hello and welcome, I to am very new to this site but so far everyone on here is super nice and respectfull. I hope your time on here is as good as mine.