Looking for stimulating debate

[Guardian85]

I was christened, too. And so were my brothers.
It was a cultural/traditional thing more then a religious one, as my parents are not particularly religious either.

It beats being circumcised!

Glad that's not tradition in Norway. I like it fine the way it is!

[DeterminedJuliet]

I was even Christened (something I'll never forgive my parents for!).

It beats being circumcised!

First of all welcome to HAF.

Thank you Croco for reminding me about my mutilated penis... I'm very resentful my mother thought it was a good idea to slice my foreskin, peel it back, and reattach it. I can't help but hold it against my family. I think this is the first time my blood has started boiling on the introductions board 

I think that's something that is definitely worth being upset about 

[The Magic Pudding]

I was Christened and didn't suffer the slightest from it.

Are you sure about that?
To what do you attribute your drive to assimilate people? 

[Amicale]

I was Christened and didn't suffer the slightest from it.

Are you sure about that?
To what do you attribute your drive to assimilate people? 

When I was baptized (Catholic church) I didn't suffer for it, but apparently the priest did. The story goes that I was all smiley and happy, and suddenly let out a loud yell, reached up, and soundly honked the priest's nose hard enough that his eyes watered. It evidently didn't bode well for my future with the Church. I maintain it was a friendly hello. 

[Siz]

I was christened, too. And so were my brothers.
It was a cultural/traditional thing more then a religious one, as my parents are not particularly religious either.

It beats being circumcised!

Glad that's not tradition in Norway. I like it fine the way it is!

Yeah, I cant really afford to lose any...

[Asmodean]

Just sayin'...

I'm a terrible example because I'm... Not like other people, really, but I'm pretty sure that had I fallen victim to both, I'd hold a far more massive grudge against my parents for christening me than I would against some random person for ass-raping me.

Signing me up for a "life-long" subscription to a social club before I had the capacity to object seems more wrong to me than assaulting me and winning after I've learnt to fight.

[Siz]

Just sayin'...

I'm a terrible example because I'm... Not like other people, really, but I'm pretty sure that had I fallen victim to both, I'd hold a far more massive grudge against my parents for christening me than I would against some random person for ass-raping me.

Signing me up for a "life-long" subscription to a social club before I had the capacity to object seems more wrong to me than assaulting me and winning after I've learnt to fight.

Do you mean 'before you've learnt to fight'?

WTF? It's a splash of water, how can you be mortally offended by that? I thought you were the epitome of 'whatever'. Sounds to me like you give the weight to the ceremony. Tut, tut.

[Stevil]

Just sayin'...

I'm a terrible example because I'm... Not like other people, really, but I'm pretty sure that had I fallen victim to both, I'd hold a far more massive grudge against my parents for christening me than I would against some random person for ass-raping me.

Signing me up for a "life-long" subscription to a social club before I had the capacity to object seems more wrong to me than assaulting me and winning after I've learnt to fight.

Do you mean 'before you've learnt to fight'?

WTF? It's a splash of water, how can you be mortally offended by that? I thought you were the epitome of 'whatever'. Sounds to me like you give the weight to the ceremony. Tut, tut.

Exactly,
How can you consider an expression of "magic" performed by someone else on your behalf as a life-long subscription to anything?

"Abracadabra, Shalacasam!" I said that phrase while turning anticlockwise three times and chucking some salt on the ground (at the same time). Now everyone in the world is unbaptised. Problem solved!

PS actually I have to admit, I didn't just do that, I'd look and feel like a complete twat if I did. But you get my point.

[Amicale]

Just sayin'...

I'm a terrible example because I'm... Not like other people, really, but I'm pretty sure that had I fallen victim to both, I'd hold a far more massive grudge against my parents for christening me than I would against some random person for ass-raping me.

Signing me up for a "life-long" subscription to a social club before I had the capacity to object seems more wrong to me than assaulting me and winning after I've learnt to fight.

Do you mean 'before you've learnt to fight'?

WTF? It's a splash of water, how can you be mortally offended by that? I thought you were the epitome of 'whatever'. Sounds to me like you give the weight to the ceremony. Tut, tut.

Exactly,
How can you consider an expression of "magic" performed by someone else on your behalf as a life-long subscription to anything?

"Abracadabra, Shalacasam!" I said that phrase while turning anticlockwise three times and chucking some salt on the ground (at the same time). Now everyone in the world is unbaptised. Problem solved!

PS actually I have to admit, I didn't just do that, I'd look and feel like a complete twat if I did. But you get my point.

While I disagree with Asmo about taking offense to a baptism but NOT to a raping (    ??? ), I actually understand his point about being signed up for something like a life-long subscription to a social club. I was baptized Catholic. What that means to the Church, at least, if not to me is that unless they excommunicate me formally, I'm still technically Catholic. I never asked to be one, but by virtue of being baptized one as a baby, I'm still on their records as being one. And this is precisely how they can say they have so many millions and millions of people in their Church -- I'd bet that MOST of us aren't faithful Catholics at all, we just no longer attend Church and haven't bothered writing to the bishop/archbishop/Vatican asking to be excommunicated.

As for myself, I don't get stirred up over the event at all. Sure, that enrolled me in their "club", but as far as I'm concerned, there's very little difference between NOT belonging to a club, and never going to the meetings/paying dues etc even if you're considered a "member". They can think what they'd like about me. If they think I'm one of them, they're only doing themself a disservice -- they call me Catholic, but I'm walking around objecting to their religion, so that can't look good on them, really. It just doesn't bug me. It makes me embarrased for them, more than anything, that they still feel the need to pretend I'm one of them just to inflate their numbers.

[Firebird]

I stumbled across this interesting corner of the internet and it looks like there is a lot of good debate and discussion on here.

I'm originally from Scotland in the UK and like most other Scottish school children, I was taught about Christianity as if it was the accepted, normal thing and that there wasn't much need for a discussion,I was even Christened (something I'll never forgive my parents for!). I probably started questioning the existance of God at the age of about 12, and by my mid-teens I could not believe that seemingly sensible people were still taking religious teachings seriously.

I personally believe that the UK is extremely tolerant of atheists and is a largely secular state, the funding of faith based schools being a notable abboration however. I have noticed that this does not seem to be the case in the USA where there seems to be a far greater degree of persecution. I generally have a belief of: "Believe what you want", but after hearing some of the garbage spoken about atheists in other parts of the world, it makes my blood boil.

Anyway, thats enough self indulgence, I look forward to some interesting debates.

Welcome to the forum! you are completely right about the U.S. Atheists such as myself are pretty descriminated against.  In the south I have to hear BS about god all day every day, yet when I mention one thing about not believing I get the head shake, or I'll pray for you.  That is one subject I will argue about no matter what.  Don't push that crap off on me just bc you have been brainwashed!

It depends where in the US you are, though. For example, I've lived on the godless East Coast all my life, and never really had a problem when I told people I didn't believe Then again, the south feels like a foreign country to me the few times I've been there.
Welcome!

[Sandra Craft]

PS actually I have to admit, I didn't just do that, I'd look and feel like a complete twat if I did. But you get my point.

Only if you wear a pointy wizard hat at the same time.

I actually understand his point about being signed up for something like a life-long subscription to a social club. I was baptized Catholic. What that means to the Church, at least, if not to me is that unless they excommunicate me formally, I'm still technically Catholic.

So somebody else thinks you're "one of them", even when you aren't, and has the paperwork to prove it.  I get it, partly because as a rabid completist myself it would just bug me to leave that end loose.  It's why I went to the trouble of badgering the Mormon church into excommunicating me even tho it didn't make any real, practical difference.

[Guardian85]

So somebody else thinks you're "one of them", even when you aren't, and has the paperwork to prove it.  I get it, partly because as a rabid completist myself it would just bug me to leave that end loose.  It's why I went to the trouble of badgering the Mormon church into excommunicating me even tho it didn't make any real, practical difference.

It was easy for me to leave the Church of Norway. I just had to send a letter saying "LET ME OUT! Please."
And then they had to.

[Asmodean]

...And then they just re-instated you after two years unless you specified that you were NOT looking to join another religious community.

To address some of the replies to me, no, I mean AFTER, not BEFORE. I should have phrased better: I'm pretty sure I'd hold a bigger grudge against the perp if I were christened as a baby than I would if I were ass-raped today.

Yes, it is just water, but I am going with the percieved symbolism of it, equating christening to child abuse.

[Siz]

...And then they just re-instated you after two years unless you specified that you were NOT looking to join another religious community.

To address some of the replies to me, no, I mean AFTER, not BEFORE. I should have phrased better: I'm pretty sure I'd hold a bigger grudge against the perp if I were christened as a baby than I would if I were ass-raped today.

Yes, it is just water, but I am going with the percieved symbolism of it, equating christening to child abuse.

A little harsh on Mums and Dads who really didn't do any harm. Did they... honestly...?? Their misguided attempts to 'do the right thing' - for better or worse - has less impact than choosing to send you to a particular nursery, or choosing your playdates, or what music you expose them to, or what food they eat.

I think you're letting negativity toward faith seep into reasoning here...

Given an inescapable choice I think I'd choose Christening for my children over buggery... Maybe that's just me...

[Asmodean]

A little harsh on Mums and Dads who really didn't do any harm. Did they... honestly...??

Depends on what you view as "harm".

Their misguided attempts to 'do the right thing' - for better or worse - has less impact than choosing to send you to a particular nursery, or choosing your playdates, or what music you expose them to, or what food they eat.

It's not the magnitude of impact - it is that an impact WAS made where there should have been none.

I think you're letting negativity toward faith seep into reasoning here...

Has very little to do with faith, actually. It's just that the current object of debate is a religious ritual.

If my parents want the best for me as a kid, they will help me with the neessary and the important before I have the capacity and the wisdom to figure it out myself and leave the rest until I have the capacity and wisdom to make those choices.

Of course, the right thing is in the eye of the beholder (the kid, in this case), and the beholder does not really behold except in hindsight, so basically, what I'm saying is that if I consider something done to me before I had the capacity to effectively object or be convinced otherwise abusive, then it pretty much is. Intentions don't justify the outcome.