The European Union

[Mister Joy]

Wondered what your opinions are on this topic. I know the Christian perspective is commonly positive, because a one world government has something to do with Jesus coming back to Earth (don't know much about that though) & the EU is one step closer to global unity. Also, some of them think that it has something to do with another (possibly) Biblical prophesy or another. Something to do with a 'great power rising in the east', which I find amusing... east from where?

Personally, I'm all for a European assembly to help everything move along smoothly but I don't like the idea of Europe going towards being a single nation with separate states (like the US). It's very very far off but many people want it to happen. Now, a fully unified Europe would be a superstate, yes. More than that, though, it would be the superstate. The separate nations, as they are now, are powerful enough as is. As one body, Europe's financial and military might would essentially dominate the globe without competition. Now while that would mean that we're really powerful and can bully the entire planet (hooray), as Europe moves closer to that, the world's going to become ever more tense. Lots of hands hovering shakily over big red buttons and so on.

Also, the EU is dissolving democracy as far as I'm concerned. Only 60% of the laws in Britain are passed by the British. I don't like that. I also don't like the idea of mangling all of these diverse cultures into one, sharing the same currency (luckily the UK hasn't got around to that yet) or being constantly nannied to change the language we use. "You're not allowed to call yourself English/French/German; you're European" et cetera. It's just a way of manipulating the way people think.

And as selfish as it sounds, the UK has nothing to gain from the EU. We're a net contributor. Still, the one benefit of this is that we're more able to keep our independence than most. The EU can vote on something and pass some 'law' but the British often refuse.

EU: "But you're breaking this new pointless law that we all voted on!"
Britain: "And we disagree with it, so we don't care and neither should you since it doesn't affect you in the slightest. And what are you going to do about it? Kick us out?"
EU: "No... you give us lots of money... but we will write you angry letters!"

and so on.

I'm pretty economically right wing (another thing I've been constantly instructed to irrationally associate with every negative word in the dictionary) but as I said, assembly I support. Diplomacy good, union bad.

What's the objective, American stand point then, generally?

[Tom62]

The idea of a European Union to remove trade barriers between the European states or have a common defense strategy is a good idea. What I don't like about the EU is that they stick their annoying noses where they don't belong. For example they tried to forbid the way the french cheesemakers make their camembert and brie, they say that it is not allowed to call german apfelwein wine because is is not made of grapes, they try to forbid Microsoft to make the software that they want, etc. etc. etc. Instead of making life more easier they come with crazy laws and regulations that no-one wantsand no country respects. The EU is a burocratic moloch that lost its touch with the common man, who cannot understand why much money is wasted on subsidising overproducing french farmers,  keeping the new member states happy and so on. I find it also extremely annoying that those countries who have the biggest mouths (like the UK under Margret Thatcher and recently Poland) can force their will on all other member states and get away with better conditions. Furthermore the European politicians lied and cheated with the introduction of the Euro (lots of people want their old currency back, because prices have risen enormously). Trade union OK, but a European Union in its current form, NO!

[Mister Joy]

Absolutely with you there. Especially with the business about the Euro. I think it's fair to say that most people in a lot of places wanted to stick to their former currency. Don't know about your corner though. I know they're not too happy about it over in Ireland. You should hear the Irish half of my family grumble on. It was very underhand there, like you said. The EU relies to much on lying, cheating and spin generally, I think; not just regarding that issue. Spin in particular: they're all about what you can and can't say/call things, it's all very socialist, hence the irritating number of pointless & intrusive rules they keep coming out with.

[Tom62]

In the Netherlands and in Germany we also would like to have our old currencies back. The introduction of the Euro was used by a lot of business to increase their prices dramatically. In most cases we now pay double the amount then bedore, while our salaries remained the same. It was an extremely wise decission (amazing for a socialist government ) that the UK didn't fall in the same Euro trap. Personally I don't give a shit in which curreny I'm paid, as long as I'm paid enough.

[Mister Joy]

It was an extremely wise decission (amazing for a socialist government) that the UK didn't fall in the same Euro trap.

Oh they tried... but there was such a media uproar about it that they couldn't really go any further.

Personally I don't give a shit in which curreny I'm paid, as long as I'm paid enough.

Likewise. The Euro is pretty infamous... also, when all the nations of Europe share the same currency, if one of them messes up financially, surely it effects everyone else in equal measures? What if hyperinflation happens or something (not that it's likely). Everyone in Europe would be buggered rather than just a single country, then they'd all be in disagreement on how to solve the problem, it'd take ages for the Union itself to actually get everyone to a more or less unanimous decision and even then one or two would still think otherwise.

[Tom62]

The only advantages of the Euro are that 1. I don't have to change money when crossing borders and 2. you realize very quickly how fu##ing expensive a holiday in Italy is.