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General => Media => Topic started by: Tank on May 06, 2019, 01:56:57 PM

Title: Discussão em português
Post by: Tank on May 06, 2019, 01:56:57 PM
Esta discussão deve ser evidente
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 02:56:43 PM
Heh, may I suggest a title edit? 'Discussão portuguesa' means 'Portuguese discussion', as in a discussion from Portugal. :grin:

'Discussão em português' might be more adequate.  :P

Obrigada, Tank! (Tanque)  ;D Now to find JJ... :sherlock2:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 03:13:05 PM
Bom dia, Fernanda. E obrigado tank.
Title: Re: Discussão portuguesa
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on May 06, 2019, 03:27:16 PM
Olá, meu nome é Ecurb. Qual é o seu nome?

Title: Re: Discussão portuguesa
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 05:12:19 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 03:13:05 PM
Bom dia, Fernanda. E obrigado tank.

Achei! :grin:

Agora é boa tarde por aqui.  ;D
Title: Re: Discussão portuguesa
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 05:13:48 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 06, 2019, 03:27:16 PM
Olá, meu nome é Ecurb. Qual é o seu nome?

Oi Ecurb! Como vai? Meu nome é Adnanref.  :P
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 09:39:55 PM
For today's lesson: Tuesday!

(https://scontent.fpoa13-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58384672_2348343468558262_9053725909609086976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fpoa13-1.fna&oh=18dd1f1cf079eba452230f90309d3ef8&oe=5D61586B)

;D
Title: Re: Discussão portuguesa
Post by: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 05:12:19 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 03:13:05 PM
Bom dia, Fernanda. E obrigado tank.

Achei! :grin:

Agora é boa tarde por aqui.  ;D

Damn, I haven't gotten that fat in the app and the bookstore has ZERO Portuguese dictionaries... I'll get it though... :felix:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 10:21:02 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 09:58:18 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 05:12:19 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 03:13:05 PM
Bom dia, Fernanda. E obrigado tank.

Achei! :grin:

Agora é boa tarde por aqui.  ;D

Damn, I haven't gotten that fat in the app and the bookstore has ZERO Portuguese dictionaries... I'll get it though... :felix:

:lol: Basically I said "I found (you/him)" and that now it's good afternoon around here.

Does the Duolingo app indicate whether it's Brazilian or European Portuguese? Because if I ask you for instance 'where are you from' it can be 'De onde você é' or 'De onde tu és?', among other variations.

European Portuguese is weird, but many Portuguese people I've met insist Brazilians have destroyed their language. Those people don't take into consideration that Portuguese as a whole comes from a bastardized version of vulgar Latin, so...

:ironicat:

*shrug*



Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 10:40:27 PM
There's a Brazilian flag on display so I'd imagine it's the Brazilian version. Honestly, there are so many more Brazilians that Portuguese that I think you could say it's your language now. Now I'm wondering how the variants spoken in Africa might relate. Fascinating subject, but, back to studying... :felix:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 10:49:07 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 10:40:27 PM
There's a Brazilian flag on display so I'd imagine it's the Brazilian version. Honestly, there are so many more Brazilians that Portuguese that I think you could say it's your language now. Now I'm wondering how the variants spoken in Africa might relate. Fascinating subject, but, back to studying... :felix:

Or...those Duolingo creators must have eaten and enjoyed some genuine Brazilian BBQ and decided that the standard Brazilian version was more, erm, relevant.  ;D

I'm sure there must be some BBQ-related phrases in there....

:P

I've met a couple of people from Mocambique and their language is different from Brazilian and European Portuguese, but I don't know that much about how different.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 11:05:31 PM
Brazilian churrasco está bom, mas noa molho.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 11:28:28 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 11:05:31 PM
Brazilian churrasco está bom, mas noa molho.

;D I got the first part, but don't really understand the second. :notsure: You don't like the sauce?

Just a minor correction: Churrasco brasiliero é bom bom demais para ser verdade, é de lamber os dedos!

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.


:popcorn: I am enjoying this. :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 11:32:37 PM
I was trying to say that there is no sauce. At least, the Brazilian barbecue cooked by the husband of a Brazilian woman didn't. Was I lied to? Was it some bastardization wrought of a union between Brazil and the Philippines...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 06, 2019, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 06, 2019, 11:32:37 PM
I was trying to say that there is no sauce. At least, the Brazilian barbecue cooked by the husband of a Brazilian woman didn't. Was I lied to? Was it some bastardization wrought of a union between Brazil and the Philippines...

:lol: Ah, ok. Yeah, I think there is generally no sauce, just seasoned meat with salt and other erm, stuff.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 01:05:37 AM
I can see I have a lot of practice ahead of me.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Magdalena on May 07, 2019, 03:53:38 AM
Me da mucha verguenza decir que no se ni una sola palabra en Portugues.
Wait, does knowing the words, Bossa Nova count as knowing a Portuguese word, or two? Yes?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:11:46 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on May 07, 2019, 03:53:38 AM
Me da mucha verguenza decir que no se ni una sola palabra en Portugues.
Wait, does knowing the words, Bossa Nova count as knowing a Portuguese word, or two? Yes?

I guess it does. :notsure:

:grin:

Spanish and Portuguese are cousins. Mas me dá muita vergonha dizer que não sei muitas palavras em espanhol even though Brazil is surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries.   :-[
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:13:46 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 01:05:37 AM
I can see I have a lot of practice ahead of me.

Nonsense. You'll be reading The Lusiads before you know it! :P
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Magdalena on May 07, 2019, 04:28:24 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:11:46 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on May 07, 2019, 03:53:38 AM
Me da mucha verguenza decir que no se ni una sola palabra en Portugues.
Wait, does knowing the words, Bossa Nova count as knowing a Portuguese word, or two? Yes?

I guess it does. :notsure:

:grin:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/nXxOjZrbnbRxS/giphy.gif)


Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:11:46 AM
Spanish and Portuguese are cousins. Mas me dá muita vergonha dizer que não sei muitas palavras em espanhol even though Brazil is surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries.   :-[
One language at a time... :therethere:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 02:44:22 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on May 07, 2019, 04:28:24 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:11:46 AM
Spanish and Portuguese are cousins. Mas me dá muita vergonha dizer que não sei muitas palavras em espanhol even though Brazil is surrounded by Spanish-speaking countries.   :-[
One language at a time... :therethere:

:sad sigh:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 03:37:11 PM
I now have a few grammar books and dictionaries on the way but I'm starting to recognize the patterns. Eu escrevo leite but Você bebe agua. Or sugar water masquerading as tea. Whatever floats your boat and wags your tail...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:09:39 PM
:grin: You look motivated to learn. :tellmemore:

Do you speak any other languages other than English, even if partially?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 04:12:50 PM
Not really. I took Spanish and tried learning Russian at one point but never stuck with it.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 04:12:50 PM
Not really. I took Spanish and tried learning Russian at one point but never stuck with it.

If you took Spanish then Portuguese won't be too difficult because they're very similar...but they might interfere with each other in your mind because they're so similar. 
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 04:20:39 PM
I'm not too worried about it. I slept a lot in Spanish class so it never really stuck!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 04:25:36 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 04:20:39 PM
I'm not too worried about it. I slept a lot in Spanish class so it never really stuck!

Heh, yeeeah...me too. :felix:

Damn afternoon classes.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 09:31:23 PM
Mine were morning classes. I just didn't give a damn! This is fun though.

Question, how important are the accent marks? Would a native speaker be able to discern meaning and intent, and be willing to overlook the errors of a foreigner, or should I really drill that early? I'd like to become proficient enough for casual conversation as quickly as possible but don't want to stunt myself if that will be crucial later on.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 10:37:31 PM
It depends on the words. Some words mean something else entirely if you omit the accents or put them in the wrong place. For instance, coco (stress is on the first'o') and cocô (stress is on the second 'o'). The first is the coconut fruit and the second is, welp, poop. Another example: é (is) and e (and). In internet speak it's common for people to write eh instead of é because...I have no idea.

But in general, people will be able to tell from the context what you're trying to say. :smilenod: It's gotten easier though...in 2009 a lot of accents were simply done away with. :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Yes, I don't want to accidentally refer to any fecal fruits so I'll drill the accents. You know what they say - drillers are killers.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 07, 2019, 11:26:28 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 07, 2019, 11:16:23 PM
Yes, I don't want to accidentally refer to any fecal fruits so I'll drill the accents. You know what they say - drillers are killers.

:snicker: :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: hermes2015 on May 08, 2019, 05:21:42 AM
Well, all I can say is pasteis de nata.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 08, 2019, 02:54:18 PM
Obrigada vs obrigado, I'm guessing it's a matter of formality rather than personal preference? Friends get the familiar form while superiors get the formal form?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: hermes2015 on May 08, 2019, 03:41:01 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 08, 2019, 02:54:18 PM
Obrigada vs obrigado, I'm guessing it's a matter of formality rather than personal preference? Friends get the familiar form while superiors get the formal form?

It sounds like a sex thing.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 08, 2019, 07:26:42 PM
Hermes is right, in standard Portuguese women in general say 'obrigada' and men, 'obrigado'. Though usually most people say the masculine form.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 08, 2019, 10:08:09 PM
I'll have to keep that in mind during lessons. The app seems to consider one form to be "thanks" while the other "thank you" interesting.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 08, 2019, 10:35:18 PM
Informal thanks is 'valeu'. :grin:

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 08, 2019, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on May 08, 2019, 05:21:42 AM
Well, all I can say is pasteis de nata.

:grin: I know what pasteis are but never heard of that variety before.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: hermes2015 on May 08, 2019, 10:47:32 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 08, 2019, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on May 08, 2019, 05:21:42 AM
Well, all I can say is pasteis de nata.

:grin: I know what pasteis are but never heard of that variety before.

Go out and buy some immediately! They are absolutely delicious Portuguese custard pies.
https://spanishsabores.com/2018/10/02/pasteis-de-nata-story-behind-classic-portuguese-pastries/
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 08, 2019, 11:41:58 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on May 08, 2019, 10:47:32 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 08, 2019, 10:39:50 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on May 08, 2019, 05:21:42 AM
Well, all I can say is pasteis de nata.

:grin: I know what pasteis are but never heard of that variety before.

Go out and buy some immediately! They are absolutely delicious Portuguese custard pies.
https://spanishsabores.com/2018/10/02/pasteis-de-nata-story-behind-classic-portuguese-pastries/

The Portuguese sure know how to make sweets! Whenever I would visit my great aunt's house we would stuff ourselves with the Portuguese food she made until it was physically impossible.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 08, 2019, 11:47:41 PM
What sort of baked goods are found in Brazil?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 01:23:06 AM
There are all sorts of pastries and stuff but besides cheese bread puffs (pão de queijo) I don't know which ones are typically Brazilian. :notsure:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 06:54:45 PM
I slacked off this morning and didn't practice at all. Hopefully I get a little in before class. I have started leaving little notes in Portuguese around the place...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 09:06:32 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 06:54:45 PM
...I have started leaving little notes in Portuguese around the place...

That's actually a good learning strategy I think. When I was studying for my Master's entrance exam I would do the same for my notes on neuroanatomy. Every day I would look at them until I knew them inside out.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:05:41 PM
Oh, these aren't study notes. I've been translating signs at work and replacing the English versions. I get bored easily.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 10:08:01 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:05:41 PM
Oh, these aren't study notes. I've been translating signs at work and replacing the English versions. I get bored easily.

:lol: Works as well I guess!  :shrug:

Can you give an example?  ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:17:32 PM
So far I've done "Bata antes de abrir a porta!" And I'm planning on switching out "Do not enter office unless instructed by a manager!"

I used Google for the first one but haven't gotten my dictionary yet, so...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 10:21:38 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:17:32 PM
So far I've done "Bata antes de abrir a porta!" And I'm planning on switching out "Do not enter office unless instructed by a manager!"

I used Google for the first one but haven't gotten my dictionary yet, so...

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:26:34 PM
Still a bit confused on the gender of obrigado/a. Does the gender depend on who is speaking or who is being addressed?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 10:28:23 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:26:34 PM
Still a bit confused on the gender of obrigado/a. Does the gender depend on who is speaking or who is being addressed?

On who's speaking. You will say 'obrigado'. ;)

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:32:34 PM
Bom. (I may have to resort to brutish and childlike grammar and vocabulary until I get a better handle on things)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 10:38:45 PM
Portuguese can be a rather sexist language. For instance when referring to a group of women the feminine word for 'they', elas will be used. When referring to a group of men, it's eles. Same for a mixed group. Even if you have 99 women and 1 man, you will say eles and not elas.

I have 2 sisters and 1 brother. I will refer to all my siblings as 'meus irmãos' (my brothers, in English). If only referring to my sisters it's 'minhas irmãs'.

In general, words ending in -a are feminine and those in -o are masculine, but one way people are using to make written speech more gender neutral is to use @ instead of 'a' or 'o'. For instance, the words for 'student' are 'aluno' and aluna'. Want a word to include both genders, use alun@.  ;D 
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 10:43:13 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:32:34 PM
Bom. (I may have to resort to brutish and childlike grammar and vocabulary until I get a better handle on things)

Sem problema!  ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:46:55 PM
That ampersand ending is just weird!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 10:48:08 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 10:46:55 PM
That ampersand ending is just weird!

You get used to it!  ;D

(Of course, best left out of formal conversations ;) )
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 11:08:43 PM
Does gender associated with nouns ever get used in insults? Like, one football team uses elas instead of eles to denigrate the other? I know it's a very sexist example, but the thought has been rolling around all week.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 09, 2019, 11:48:34 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 09, 2019, 11:08:43 PM
Does gender associated with nouns ever get used in insults? Like, one football team uses elas instead of eles to denigrate the other? I know it's a very sexist example, but the thought has been rolling around all week.

:notsure: Honestly, I can't recall ever hearing such an example. Though as is in English there are gender-specific insults like 'cachorra' (bitch), 'puta' (whore) etc. Though 'cachorro', besides meaning 'dog' is also the male equivalent of the insult. 'Puto' is more commonly used to mean 'enraged' and not used very often for male prostitutes.

I guess in terms of outright sexism Portuguese is just like any other language, but it's more structurally sexist than English, going way back to its origins. Like it isn't outright trying to be but is. :shrug:   
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 10, 2019, 12:03:47 AM
But as a language it has its perks. I like the English language and all but I think Portuguese is more beautiful. It sounds better too (Brazilian versions). :tellmemore:

For instance, you were just talking about signs. I once saw a sign on an office door with a few verses of one of Camões' (author of the Lusiads) most famous sonnets, which stuck with me to this day.

QuoteAmor é um fogo que arde sem se ver

Amor é um fogo que arde sem se ver;
É ferida que dói, e não se sente;
É um contentamento descontente;
É dor que desatina sem doer.

É um não querer mais que bem querer;
É um andar solitário entre a gente;
É nunca contentar-se e contente;
É um cuidar que ganha em se perder;

É querer estar preso por vontade;
É servir a quem vence, o vencedor;
É ter com quem nos mata, lealdade.

Mas como causar pode seu favor
Nos corações humanos amizade,
Se tão contrário a si é o mesmo Amor?

It's better when recited though:



:tellmemore:

(Camões is the Shakespeare of the Portuguese language.)

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 10, 2019, 01:21:59 AM
That really is lovely. And true. Almost disturbingly true.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 10, 2019, 02:10:31 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 10, 2019, 01:21:59 AM
That really is lovely. And true. Almost disturbingly true.

:smilenod:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 04:20:31 AM
Going through some of the grammar book tonight I'm beginning to realize how shaky my grasp of language is in general. I can speak and write intelligently - some of the time - but I haven't really known what I was doing.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Tank on May 11, 2019, 09:09:59 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 04:20:31 AM
Going through some of the grammar book tonight I'm beginning to realize how shaky my grasp of language is in general. I can speak and write intelligently - some of the time - but I haven't really known what I was doing.

100% agree!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2019, 02:51:04 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 04:20:31 AM
Going through some of the grammar book tonight I'm beginning to realize how shaky my grasp of language is in general. I can speak and write intelligently - some of the time - but I haven't really known what I was doing.

Me too! Though I dislike studying grammar for any language, and generally learn without picking up a grammar book. Don't ask me why something is the way it is, I just know it is that way, in most cases. :lol:

Not to mention, there are all the 'nonstandard' variations being spoken and written everywhere that can really confuse you if you're looking to learn 'proper' grammar. Those variations aren't wrong, though. Just different.

I'm not saying that grammar is useless, if there weren't any standardised rules then languages probably wouldn't have any brakes and diverge until you wouldn't understand what someone from across your own country was saying.

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 03:39:42 PM
I've moved past the basic phrases in Duolingo and am onto food and animals. The proverbial loaves and fishes - pao e peixo.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2019, 04:51:38 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 03:39:42 PM
I've moved past the basic phrases in Duolingo and am onto food and animals. The proverbial loaves and fishes - pao e peixo.

Legal (cool) :grin:

You mean peixe?  ;)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 05:03:41 PM
Sim...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2019, 06:46:21 PM
Thought so. :P

I think I'll try duolingo out. I'm curious to see how it works.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
It's an interesting concept. Instead of learning lists of words and rules for pronunciation the focus is on associating words with images and hearing them spoken. You pick up patterns based on the short lessons.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2019, 10:05:02 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
It's an interesting concept. Instead of learning lists of words and rules for pronunciation the focus is on associating words with images and hearing them spoken. You pick up patterns based on the short lessons.

Looks like it's gamified as well. Interesting.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: hermes2015 on May 11, 2019, 11:01:58 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
It's an interesting concept. Instead of learning lists of words and rules for pronunciation the focus is on associating words with images and hearing them spoken. You pick up patterns based on the short lessons.

Is this what they refer to as acquiring a language, as opposed to learning it?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2019, 11:05:14 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on May 11, 2019, 11:01:58 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
It's an interesting concept. Instead of learning lists of words and rules for pronunciation the focus is on associating words with images and hearing them spoken. You pick up patterns based on the short lessons.

Is this what they refer to as acquiring a language, as opposed to learning it?

I have no idea. For me learning is acquiring memories, so I see no distinction.

:notsure:

But I don't know. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 12, 2019, 02:13:36 AM
Does it really matter? Language is one means of communication, so I don't think it makes much difference how you gain the skill. Someone who is immersed in an alien culture and figures out how to speak and listen to be understood effectively might be different from someone with technical knowledge of a language, but the result is the same. Well, basically the same.

If I only aquire Portuguese as a language instead of learning the intricacies I can still do what I want to do. Writing epic poetry might be beyond my grasp but I might be able to string together little haiku when I'm bored or in a playful mood.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 12, 2019, 02:16:02 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2019, 10:05:02 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
It's an interesting concept. Instead of learning lists of words and rules for pronunciation the focus is on associating words with images and hearing them spoken. You pick up patterns based on the short lessons.

Looks like it's gamified as well. Interesting.

Oh yes, I've recently unlocked some bonus content for the pittance of thirty precious lingots. The question is, do I learn to flirt or pick up some Portuguese wisdom in the form of proverbs and idioms?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 12, 2019, 02:04:21 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 12, 2019, 02:16:02 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 11, 2019, 10:05:02 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 11, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
It's an interesting concept. Instead of learning lists of words and rules for pronunciation the focus is on associating words with images and hearing them spoken. You pick up patterns based on the short lessons.

Looks like it's gamified as well. Interesting.

Oh yes, I've recently unlocked some bonus content for the pittance of thirty precious lingots. The question is, do I learn to flirt or pick up some Portuguese wisdom in the form of proverbs and idioms?

Looks like Duolingo's got you covered as far as pick up lines are concerned:

(https://scontent.fpoa13-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/60240839_2360495704009705_440234800675028992_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent.fpoa13-1.fna&oh=70789e1f72ba74a28703f6444d92f539&oe=5D752CEF)

Though a little brega (corny, tacky), heh.  ;D

As for proverbs and idioms, I don't know. A lot of them have equivalents in English even though they may not be literal translations. One proverb I particularly like is:

Faça como eu digo e não como eu faço.

(Translation: Do as I say, not as I do.)

:sidesmile: :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 12, 2019, 02:31:33 PM
I think I'll go for the proverbs. If I can't pull of a corny pickup line in English I damn sure won't get it right in Portuguese!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 12, 2019, 03:06:07 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 12, 2019, 02:31:33 PM
I think I'll go for the proverbs. If I can't pull of a corny pickup line in English I damn sure won't get it right in Portuguese!

:lol: You could try going for something a little cheeky instead.  :P
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 12, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Am I right in thinking that pluralization is accomplished through verb modification rather than through the noun? There seems to be a pattern but I don't know if it'll translate into a general rule.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 12, 2019, 03:43:51 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 12, 2019, 03:23:36 PM
Am I right in thinking that pluralization is accomplished through verb modification rather than through the noun? There seems to be a pattern but I don't know if it'll translate into a general rule.

Verbs agree with the subject. If there's more than one ('they' or 'we') then you inflect the verb into the plural form. Adjectives and nouns can be pluralized, something that doesn't happen in English, I think.

For instance, if I say:

(Eu) Tenho um cão preto. (I have a black dog)

If I had two black dogs I would say:

Tenho dois cães pretos.

Literally: I have two dogs blacks. Sounds a bit weird, huh?

If I were to say 'we have two black dogs' it would be:

(Nós) temos dois cães pretos.

I put 'eu' (I)and 'nós' (we) in brackets because they can be omitted since the verb is inflected.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 01:56:47 AM
I think I'm going to try to compose a short essay, for lack of a better word. It'll be a bit of a challenge and might help to iron out a few details.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 13, 2019, 02:02:34 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 01:56:47 AM
I think I'm going to try to compose a short essay, for lack of a better word. It'll be a bit of a challenge and might help to iron out a few details.

Cool! ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 02:06:59 AM
I've been thinking of ways to remember words more easily. Looking up what's what on the farm and describing it might help and could potentially be useful. You never know, I might head south and clearcut a piece if the Amazon to start a ranch!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on May 13, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
O que achas do argumento ontológico do Anselmo?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 13, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
O que achas do argumento ontológico do Anselmo?

Eu não achar o argumento do Anselm convincente.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:17:49 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 02:06:59 AM
I've been thinking of ways to remember words more easily. Looking up what's what on the farm and describing it might help and could potentially be useful.

I personally think associating new words with previously acquired mental concepts is the easiest way to learn new words. That and practice, of course. Gotta get those synapses strengthened!  ;D

QuoteYou never know, I might head south and clearcut a piece if the Amazon to start a ranch!

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/51SCSNW2Pp3nW/giphy.gif)

Ele realmente disse isso?

It seems he really did say that, Blue. But he's only joking, you can go back to sleep now.

Tá bom.

:foottap:

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 14, 2019, 02:22:54 AM
I think I prefer talking to Purple instead of Blue. Purple is helpful. Blue is completely humorless...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:42:27 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 13, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
O que achas do argumento ontológico do de Anselmo?

;D Look at him go! Straight to the heavy philosophical stuff, hey?

Eu acho que o argumento de Anselmo tem vários problemas...não levo a sério. O argumento chega a ser absurdo. 

Tendo a concordar mais com Tomás de Aquino, que disse que a natureza de deus (se existe) seria além da compreensão humana. Não acho que, se deus existe, a consciência humana teria como entendê-lo até porque nossas limitações humanas não permitiriam. Pelo contrário, nossas tendências biológicas e psicológicas favorecem imagens mentais de deuses falhos e ridículos. Olha só para o deus do antigo testamento da bíblia.

E...as ideias de deus e deuses concebidos nas mentes de humanos são entidades demasiadamente humanos também. É uma das grandes razões que me levam a ser uma atéia. 
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:45:54 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 13, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
O que achas do argumento ontológico do Anselmo?

Eu não achar o argumento do Anselm convincente.

:smilenod:

I perfectly understood what you wanted to say, so that's really good ;D

Just two corrections:

Eu não acho o argumento de Anselm convincente.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:47:14 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 14, 2019, 02:22:54 AM
I think I prefer talking to Purple instead of Blue. Purple is helpful. Blue is completely humorless...

:sad sigh: But Purple is Blue. She's just a little sad today, hence the new hue.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 14, 2019, 03:03:21 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:47:14 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 14, 2019, 02:22:54 AM
I think I prefer talking to Purple instead of Blue. Purple is helpful. Blue is completely humorless...

:sad sigh: But Purple is Blue. She's just a little sad today, hence the new hue.

Ah, my apologies then, if my suggestion that I would clearcut the Amazon played a part in that. I really enjoy trees. You would be more likely to find me sabotaging an industrial logging operation than taking part.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 03:20:39 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 14, 2019, 03:03:21 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:47:14 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 14, 2019, 02:22:54 AM
I think I prefer talking to Purple instead of Blue. Purple is helpful. Blue is completely humorless...

:sad sigh: But Purple is Blue. She's just a little sad today, hence the new hue.

Ah, my apologies then, if my suggestion that I would clearcut the Amazon played a part in that. I really enjoy trees. You would be more likely to find me sabotaging an industrial logging operation than taking part.

No worries about the clearcutting the Amazon joke, you don't come across as someone who thinks along those lines, unlike our shithead president who seems to just want to destroy natural treasures along with everything good in the world. 

Besides giving leave to foreign and domestic companies to destroy the Amazon, he's also destroying basic research by cutting funding. My scholarship grant is at stake.  :( That's why I'm a little down today, it has nothing to do with what you said.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on May 14, 2019, 04:38:17 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:45:54 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 13, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
O que achas do argumento ontológico do Anselmo?

Eu não achar o argumento do Anselm convincente.

:smilenod:

I perfectly understood what you wanted to say, so that's really good ;D

Just two corrections:

Eu não acho o argumento de Anselm convincente.

Anselmo confia demais na imaginação e na concepção humana para satisfazer qualquer premissa ontológica da fé. Um argumento ontológico não deve confiar na imaginação humana. Além disso, posso imaginar algo maior do que qualquer coisa - o maior sorvete possível, por exemplo. Isso não significa que isso exista na realidade.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 05:29:14 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 14, 2019, 04:38:17 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 02:45:54 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 13, 2019, 11:34:30 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 13, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
O que achas do argumento ontológico do Anselmo?

Eu não achar o argumento do Anselm convincente.

:smilenod:

I perfectly understood what you wanted to say, so that's really good ;D

Just two corrections:

Eu não acho o argumento de Anselm convincente.

Anselmo confia demais na imaginação e na concepção humana para satisfazer qualquer premissa ontológica da fé. Um argumento ontológico não deve confiar na imaginação humana. Além disso, posso imaginar algo maior do que qualquer coisa - o maior sorvete possível, por exemplo. Isso não significa que isso exista na realidade.

Exatamente.  ;D

Agora estou pensando num pote de sorvete de menta com flocos de chocolate do tamanho de um arranha-céus, onde posso encontrar isso?  :let'seat:

:sad sigh: Ah sim, não é assim que a realidade funciona.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on May 14, 2019, 08:27:28 PM
O melhor sorvete que se possa imaginar é o creme doce coberto em Kahlua.

Descobri que posso ler cerca de 50% dos portugueses devido ao meu conhecimento de espanhol e italiano.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 10:45:56 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 14, 2019, 08:27:28 PM
O melhor sorvete que se possa imaginar é o creme doce coberto em Kahlua.

:notsure: Nunca experimentei.

QuoteDescobri que posso ler cerca de 50% dos portugueses devido ao meu conhecimento de espanhol e italiano.

That's great! I feel the Portuguese people are rather unreadable myself...

:grin:  :P

(Descobri que consigo ler cerca de 50% das palavras em português devido ao meu conhecimento de espanhol e italiano.)

Sei que conhecimento de espanhol é mais de metade do caminho andado pois as duas línguas são muito similares. Mas a língua inglesa também tem bastante em comum com a portuguesa...várias palavras são de origem românica, como: incorportate. :grin:

Falando em incorporar, no Brasil muitas pessoas mais jovens estão adotando gírias e vocabulário provenientes da língua inglesa. Os puristas odeiam isso mas eles não podem impedir que isso aconteça.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on May 14, 2019, 11:01:23 PM
I meant the Portuguese language.  Sorry.  Heh, I only said 50%!  ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 14, 2019, 11:04:03 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on May 14, 2019, 11:01:23 PM
I meant the Portuguese language.  Sorry.  Heh, I only said 50%!  ;D

I know.  ;D Forgivable error!  :P
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 15, 2019, 01:22:02 AM
I can almost understand the sentence structure above! I think I'm getting somewhere. The word list for my essay is almost complete. Still have some conjugation review before I begin translating.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Magdalena on May 15, 2019, 03:59:56 AM
(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/popcorn_seinfeld.gif)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 15, 2019, 02:37:53 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 15, 2019, 01:22:02 AM
I can almost understand the sentence structure above! I think I'm getting somewhere. The word list for my essay is almost complete. Still have some conjugation review before I begin translating.

Quote from: Magdalena on May 15, 2019, 03:59:56 AM
(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/popcorn_seinfeld.gif)

:watching:

;) ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Tank on May 15, 2019, 04:26:02 PM
This thread has been quite the success!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 15, 2019, 08:04:52 PM
Quote from: Tank on May 15, 2019, 04:26:02 PM
This thread has been quite the success!

:grin: Well what can I say? :shrug: When people get talking in Portuguese they blabber on and on and on and on... :blahblah:

;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 17, 2019, 02:14:39 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 15, 2019, 02:37:53 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 15, 2019, 01:22:02 AM
I can almost understand the sentence structure above! I think I'm getting somewhere. The word list for my essay is almost complete. Still have some conjugation review before I begin translating.

Quote from: Magdalena on May 15, 2019, 03:59:56 AM
(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/popcorn_seinfeld.gif)

:watching:

;) ;D

I'm working on it... been busy with inventions and classes...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 18, 2019, 01:20:27 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 17, 2019, 02:14:39 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 15, 2019, 02:37:53 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 15, 2019, 01:22:02 AM
I can almost understand the sentence structure above! I think I'm getting somewhere. The word list for my essay is almost complete. Still have some conjugation review before I begin translating.

Quote from: Magdalena on May 15, 2019, 03:59:56 AM
(https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/popcorn_seinfeld.gif)

:watching:

;) ;D

I'm working on it... been busy with inventions and classes...

Tudo bem. :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 19, 2019, 03:44:01 PM
Okay, the essay will be finished TODAY. I've set a 5:00 deadline, which means it might be done by midnight. Procrastination...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 19, 2019, 07:14:55 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 19, 2019, 03:44:01 PM
Okay, the essay will be finished TODAY. I've set a 5:00 deadline, which means it might be done by midnight. Procrastination...

Heh, I know EXACTLY what you mean! :grin: Those deadlines, right? Pffft...mere suggestions on when to finish stuff.  :sidesmile:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 19, 2019, 07:18:20 PM
Here's the start. I don't think I'm getting "be" right:

A fazenda não be extravagante. O equipamento não be nova, o campos não be tratado, a animais be não perfieiota, e a oficina be incabado

(There may be issues with autocorrect fiddling with my spelling. Couldn't switch languages so there was a lot of tapping around to make it stop.)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 19, 2019, 08:06:18 PM
I'm impressed you're trying to write sentences after so little time learning, JJ. :)

Just so you can help me help you, could you add exactly what you want to say, in English? With the exception of one word (looks more like an autocorrect typo) you used I understand what you're saying...you're off to an excellent start! :smilenod: 

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 19, 2019, 08:16:52 PM
English to be, loosely, translated into português:

The farm is not a fancy place. The equipment is not new, the fields are not perfectly groomed, the livestock are not perfect, and rhe shop is unfinished.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 19, 2019, 09:18:57 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 19, 2019, 08:16:52 PM
English to be, loosely, translated into português:

The farm is not a fancy place. The equipment is not new, the fields are not perfectly groomed, the livestock are not perfect, and rhe shop is unfinished.

Yes, that's exactly it.  :thumbsup:

There are a few grammatical errors, but nothing so serious it makes the sentences unintelligible. I'll try my best to explain what you got wrong, but unfortunately I'm not good at that, I just know they are the way they are.  :shrug:


Vamos por partes. :grin:

-~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~-

The farm is not fancy.

A fazenda não é chique. ('chique' would be a better world than 'extravagante' in this context)

The farm is not a fancy place.

A fazenda não é um lugar chique

The equipment is not new

Os equipamentos não são novos

the fields are not groomed

os campos não são tratados

the fields are not perfectly groomed

os campos não são perfeitamente tratados

the livestock are not perfect

os animais não são perfeitos

You could also say something like: A pecuária não é perfeita. Pecuária is the word for 'livestock' whereas animais is a generic 'animals'.

and the shop is unfinished.

e a oficina está inacabada.

-~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~--~-~-~-

As for 'be'

Singular: é
Plural: são
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 19, 2019, 09:21:27 PM
Excellent! That's exactly what I needed.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 19, 2019, 09:39:24 PM
Great! :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 23, 2019, 10:33:53 PM
Still plugging away on my daily lessons. A special unit on você seems to be next. I'm still mad at myself for using be instead of é, but that'll pass I'm sure.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 24, 2019, 12:22:42 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 23, 2019, 10:33:53 PM
Still plugging away on my daily lessons. A special unit on você seems to be next. I'm still mad at myself for using be instead of é, but that'll pass I'm sure.

The way Duolingo is set up, it's a lot of information for the learner to take in, almost at once, even if there's a lot of emphasis on pattern recognition there.

And don't be mad at yourself, it's through mistakes that we learn the most. ;)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 26, 2019, 08:54:11 PM
Stupid duolingo is messing me up this time. I'm having to guess my way through the listen and type exercises because the frigging sound went out! >:(
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Tank on May 26, 2019, 09:02:36 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 26, 2019, 08:54:11 PM
Stupid duolingo is messing me up this time. I'm having to guess my way through the listen and type exercises because the frigging sound went out! >:(

First world problem.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 26, 2019, 09:06:25 PM
Sim, sim...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 28, 2019, 03:32:56 PM
Lesson of the day: how to express frustration or annoyance without swearing.


Aff (pronounced ah-ffy)

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 28, 2019, 03:36:14 PM
Learning to swear creatively might be the mark of true mastery in a language. I can give Shakespeare and Camoes a run for their money in English when I'm frustrated.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 28, 2019, 03:41:56 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 28, 2019, 03:36:14 PM
Learning to swear creatively might be the mark of true mastery in a language. I can give Shakespeare and Camoes a run for their money in English when I'm frustrated.

I agree!  ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 29, 2019, 02:29:06 AM
Having trouble with cozinho and cozinha. I feel like it's just gendered but not completely sure. Does it default to masculine if the subject isn't known to be a female?

So:

Eu cozinho o carne e ela cozinha um molho.

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 29, 2019, 03:14:01 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 29, 2019, 02:29:06 AM
Having trouble with cozinho and cozinha. I feel like it's just gendered but not completely sure. Does it default to masculine if the subject isn't known to be a female?

So:

Eu cozinho o carne e ela cozinha um molho.

Verbs aren't gendered. It's 'cozinho' or 'cozinha' based on the subject.

Here's the conjugation for the verb 'cozinhar' (to cook)

eu cozinho
tu cozinhas
ele/ela cozinha
nós cozinhamos
vós cozinhais
eles cozinham

So you see, both 'he' (ele) or 'she' (ela) cozinha.


"Eu cozinho a carne e ela cozinha um molho."

You can also say:

Ela cozinha a carne e eu cozinho um molho.

or

Ele cozinha a carne e eu cozinho um molho.

Etc...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 29, 2019, 03:31:43 PM
Thank you! My neural pattern recognition software has a few bugs to work out...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Icarus on May 30, 2019, 06:12:50 PM
Irrelevant to the conversation:

Did you know that the west African nation of Guinea-Bissau has Portuguese as their basic language.  It has been corrupted with pidgin.  Nonetheless, Silver and JJ could communicate with the natives there.

Twould be interesting to learn why that language found a home in that place.  I would guess that it has something to do with Portuguese colonialism of the distant past.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on May 30, 2019, 06:22:41 PM
It does indeed, just like Angola, Mozambique,  and, once upon a time, a tiny slice of India.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 30, 2019, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 30, 2019, 06:22:41 PM
It does indeed, just like Angola, Mozambique,  and, once upon a time, a tiny slice of India.

:this: :smilenod:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Icarus on May 31, 2019, 06:00:25 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on May 30, 2019, 06:22:41 PM
It does indeed, just like Angola, Mozambique,  and, once upon a time, a tiny slice of India.

And Ceylon too.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on June 20, 2019, 04:13:27 AM
My streak continues to 51 days. I now have a bit better understanding of first person plural versus third person plural. Vocês escrevem uma carta. Nós lemos o livro.

My vocabulary is still very limited though.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 21, 2019, 02:13:05 AM
Very good. :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on June 21, 2019, 02:27:44 AM
If there's one thing I like Duolingo for, it's the repeated spoken sentences. With a Portuguese accent the difference between bebe and bebeem is very subtle.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 25, 2019, 02:37:15 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 21, 2019, 02:27:44 AM
If there's one thing I like Duolingo for, it's the repeated spoken sentences. With a Portuguese accent the difference between bebe and bebeem is very subtle.

You think? :P

Well, English has it's fair share of very subtle differences too. Brazilians for the life of me can't distinguish between the spoken  'man' and 'men'.  ;D We have to rely on context instead. 
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
You should talk to some Southerners. Men sounds normal enough, most of the time, but we tend to add a 'y' and an extra 'a' to man. It becomes... mayan...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 25, 2019, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
You should talk to some Southerners. Men sounds normal enough, most of the time, but we tend to add a 'y' and an extra 'a' to man. It becomes... mayan...

Just like in the movies... :tellmemore:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: hermes2015 on June 25, 2019, 06:06:49 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
You should talk to some Southerners. Men sounds normal enough, most of the time, but we tend to add a 'y' and an extra 'a' to man. It becomes... mayan...

I wonder how they say Mayan.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 25, 2019, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
You should talk to some Southerners. Men sounds normal enough, most of the time, but we tend to add a 'y' and an extra 'a' to man. It becomes... mayan...

Just like in the movies... :tellmemore:

Honestly, most depictions of Southerners in film get it very, very wrong. There's a tendency in Hollywood to give leading characters deeper voices than you find in the wild, so to speak. Most southern accents are fairly highly pitched.

Some hill folk have a low and slow way of speaking, as a group, but down in the flats you find people who speak in the upper registers. I can usually peg people by their state and in Virginia I can usually get the region, if not the county.

Robert Deniro, George Clooney, and Nicholas Cage were absolutely AWFUL at southern accents. Comically bad to someone who knows what to listen for.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 10:03:41 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on June 25, 2019, 06:06:49 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
You should talk to some Southerners. Men sounds normal enough, most of the time, but we tend to add a 'y' and an extra 'a' to man. It becomes... mayan...

I wonder how they say Mayan.

Just like in the movies... Seriously though, my description wasn't perfect. I guess that if Mayan is a short 'a' the southern 'man' would be a long 'a' if that makes any sense? I'm not a linguist so I can't describe the phonetic differences accurately. :(
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 26, 2019, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 25, 2019, 03:46:53 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 25, 2019, 01:31:47 PM
You should talk to some Southerners. Men sounds normal enough, most of the time, but we tend to add a 'y' and an extra 'a' to man. It becomes... mayan...

Just like in the movies... :tellmemore:

Honestly, most depictions of Southerners in film get it very, very wrong. There's a tendency in Hollywood to give leading characters deeper voices than you find in the wild, so to speak. Most southern accents are fairly highly pitched.

Some hill folk have a low and slow way of speaking, as a group, but down in the flats you find people who speak in the upper registers. I can usually peg people by their state and in Virginia I can usually get the region, if not the county.

Robert Deniro, George Clooney, and Nicholas Cage were absolutely AWFUL at southern accents. Comically bad to someone who knows what to listen for.

Heh, Nicholas Cage is an A-lister, triple A to be exact: Absolutely Awful Actor. It wouldn't surprise anyone he couldn't get it right.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: hermes2015 on June 27, 2019, 04:35:02 AM
The only movie I liked Nicholas Cage in was Peggy Sue Got Married.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 29, 2019, 05:46:01 PM
Quote from: hermes2015 on June 27, 2019, 04:35:02 AM
The only movie I liked Nicholas Cage in was Peggy Sue Got Married.

Never watched that one. :notsure:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on June 29, 2019, 07:14:05 PM
I'm starting to nail down the adjectives. They go with the gender of the noun, correct?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 29, 2019, 09:35:20 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on June 29, 2019, 07:14:05 PM
I'm starting to nail down the adjectives. They go with the gender of the noun, correct?

Correct.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on July 12, 2019, 02:29:23 AM
Possessives are very troubling for me. Tua teu sua seu. I can't keep them straight. I wind up guessing my way through the excersises and not really picking up the patterns.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 13, 2019, 12:45:46 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on July 12, 2019, 02:29:23 AM
Possessives are very troubling for me. Tua teu sua seu. I can't keep them straight. I wind up guessing my way through the excersises and not really picking up the patterns.

Which possessive you use depends on the noun gender.

Tua and teu are not very frequently used in most of Brazil (more common in European Portuguese) and when it is used, it's more informal. Instead, the alternate version (see below) is more commonly found.

Sua and seu mean the exact same thing as tua and teu. They mean your/yours.

There is also meu and minha (my/mine).

When the noun is masculine, people use seu ou meu, depending on what they want to say.

When feminine, it's sua or minha.

For instance:

Eu e meu amigo. (o amigo) -- Me and my (male) friend.

Você e sua amiga. (a amiga) -- You and your (female) friend.

Este copo é meu. (o copo) -- This cup is mine.

Esta é a minha caneta. (a caneta) -- That is my pen.

Sometimes the noun gender isn't so clear, however. For example: meu bilhete (my ticket). Seu bilhete (your ticket). O bilhete.

The possessive can also be singular or plural. Seus, suas, meus and minhas are all plural when the noun is too.

Meus amigos. Minhas amigas. Suas canetas. Seus copos.


Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on July 13, 2019, 08:51:27 PM
Thank you again Fernanda. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 14, 2019, 01:35:48 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on July 13, 2019, 08:51:27 PM
Thank you again Fernanda. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this!

No problem! It's interesting to see your progress. :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on July 14, 2019, 11:09:45 PM
I think I've got it now. Duolingo should really have a short explanation at the beginning of each lesson. Maybe they could hire you for it. ;)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 14, 2019, 11:19:26 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on July 14, 2019, 11:09:45 PM
Maybe they could hire you for it. ;)

Heheh! :smileshake:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 12:19:35 AM
Could you recommend some Portuguese language newscasts or podcasts? Hearing the language spoken in a natural way might help.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 29, 2019, 02:43:04 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 12:19:35 AM
Could you recommend some Portuguese language newscasts or podcasts? Hearing the language spoken in a natural way might help.

Sure! I generally only listen to podcasts in English so I don't know of that many in Portuguese but here's one that my supervisor does, called Fronteiras da Ciência (Frontiers of Science):

http://www.ufrgs.br/frontdaciencia/ (http://www.ufrgs.br/frontdaciencia/)

However, IMO just hearing the spoken language without seeing any nonverbal communication might make it more difficult to understand. Give it a try and tell me what you think.  ;) 

There is, of course, Youtube. What sort of things do you like to watch?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 02:58:18 AM
I watch ALL SORTS of weird stuff. Everything from an explanation of Mike Tyson's peek-a-boo style to stories about a researcher who lived with a male dolphin and used sex to aid in communication... YouTube was weird today!

Generally it's nature and diy projects. Owls being rescued from fishing line and refinishing pianos. Normal stuff.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 29, 2019, 03:01:29 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 02:58:18 AM
I watch ALL SORTS of weird stuff. Everything from an explanation of Mike Tyson's peek-a-boo style to stories about a researcher who lived with a male dolphin and used sex to aid in communication... YouTube was weird today!

:lol: Ok, so you've been to that part of Youtube! Sometimes I find myself there as well.  ::)

QuoteGenerally it's nature and diy projects. Owls being rescued from fishing line and refinishing pianos. Normal stuff.

I'll see if I can find something both interesting and that is spoken clearly. :smilenod:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 29, 2019, 03:29:06 AM


Found something that is conveniently pertinent. :lol:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 03:36:54 AM
I'll never claim fluency.... Uh uh... Não...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 29, 2019, 03:48:29 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 03:36:54 AM
I'll never claim fluency.... Uh uh... Não...

That's ok, according to the video clip most native speakers won't either.  :P  ;)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 04:08:20 AM
Listening to the Volcano podcast I picked out two words so far. garrafas e água. I don't know if he was talking about a bottle and said something about water shortly after or if he was talking about an actual bottle of water but I picked up on it. Fascinating, despite not really following along well...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on July 30, 2019, 01:47:19 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on July 29, 2019, 04:08:20 AM
Listening to the Volcano podcast I picked out two words so far. garrafas e água. I don't know if he was talking about a bottle and said something about water shortly after or if he was talking about an actual bottle of water but I picked up on it. Fascinating, despite not really following along well...

Legal!  8) (cool!)

I'll give it a listen one of these days. :grin:

Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on August 02, 2019, 09:46:44 PM
(https://scontent.fpoa4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67963924_1375694252581372_7724861254405193728_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQkfuc8uLkg6D6geP7os02uBhkb5DBKB3EHSeihS71ey8l2xKDjR6U4t_gz90BWFxwI&_nc_ht=scontent.fpoa4-1.fna&oh=ca4711fa0817a1cdc71881df67d0be4d&oe=5DA1C26A)

Translation fail! :rofl:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on August 02, 2019, 09:52:58 PM
I could do better than that!
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on August 02, 2019, 10:20:47 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on August 02, 2019, 09:52:58 PM
I could do better than that!

:smilenod:

Looks like a Google Translatism.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: hermes2015 on August 03, 2019, 10:48:47 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on August 09, 2019, 03:32:03 PM
I'm at 101 days on the app. In another thirty I'll be Rio ready.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on October 22, 2019, 11:04:06 PM
I seem to have hit a wall. I can get through the lessons but it's more getting things wrong until I memorize an answer and then repeating that process over and over again for each excercise in the lesson.

Doing that wouldn't bother me if I seemed to be doing it with decreasing frequency, but that's not the case. I do it every damn time and I'm getting terribly frustrated. Maybe my pattern recognition software will start running again soon. I'll stick with it for now.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 25, 2019, 08:06:46 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on October 22, 2019, 11:04:06 PM
I seem to have hit a wall. I can get through the lessons but it's more getting things wrong until I memorize an answer and then repeating that process over and over again for each excercise in the lesson.

Doing that wouldn't bother me if I seemed to be doing it with decreasing frequency, but that's not the case. I do it every damn time and I'm getting terribly frustrated. Maybe my pattern recognition software will start running again soon. I'll stick with it for now.

What kind of errors are you making? Maybe I can help...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Bad Penny II on October 26, 2019, 01:37:27 AM
It's free apparently.
QuoteLearn Portuguese from Brazil in no time! MosaLingua's effective and addictive teaching method will help you memorize loads of vocabulary, key phrases and conjugations in record time★

By using the dialogue exercises, you'll be able to improve both your Brazilian Portuguese comprehension and your speaking skills at the same time.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mosalingua.pt (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mosalingua.pt)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on October 26, 2019, 02:14:26 AM
It's things like using 'da' or 'do' instead of 'a' and 'o'. Question structure is very challenging for me too. I'll try to put something more cohesive together...
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 27, 2019, 12:35:48 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on October 26, 2019, 02:14:26 AM
It's things like using 'da' or 'do' instead of 'a' and 'o'. Question structure is very challenging for me too. I'll try to put something more cohesive together...

Ok, depends a little on the context but 'da' and 'do' are usually used when something belongs to someone, it's basically 'de a' and 'de o', respectively...and is sort of equivalent to the 's in English.  'O' and 'a' are the. For instance:

A casa do Jumbojak.

The house belongs to Jumbojak (Jumbojak's house) so we use 'do' (masculine).

A lot of less fluent Brazilians would translate the second sentence rather literally and say "The Jumbojak's house", it's a common type of error around here.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 03, 2019, 05:25:45 PM
(https://scontent.fpoa13-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/73163356_2690995444293061_876470449926569984_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQlSaLke4rVYuYD0GyTRtkMbiuBHT-WURTNGU_NDb5qB_HLuJvE7qd8qQLrTNZnNob8&_nc_ht=scontent.fpoa13-1.fna&oh=c68a0f11db6afb4f213e11f3cc709e0f&oe=5E5283F6)
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on November 03, 2019, 05:42:20 PM
That's a really good question... Hmmm?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 03, 2019, 05:53:04 PM
Quote from: jumbojak on November 03, 2019, 05:42:20 PM
That's a really good question... Hmmm?

It is a really good question! Difficult to explain, too!  :P

(Depends on the context).
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on November 13, 2019, 03:33:41 PM
I seem to be getting worse, not better. This morning I finally gave up and threw my phone in frustration.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on November 13, 2019, 05:03:13 PM
I'm going to say "tomar" is like take a drink.

"Levar" is take as in lift something.

"Pegar" is just take.

"Tirar" is like take away or pull away from someone/something.

Those are my guesses.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Magdalena on November 13, 2019, 07:05:16 PM
I want to guess.  :oooh-me!:
Tomar: to drink. To take/grab.
Levar: To carry something from one place to another.
Pegar: To glue. To hit/strike.
Tirar: To throw. To pull. To shoot.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 10:59:52 AM
Sorry, only saw this thread now.  :-[

Quote from: jumbojak on November 13, 2019, 03:33:41 PM
I seem to be getting worse, not better. This morning I finally gave up and threw my phone in frustration.

That's ok, these things are meant to be fun and frustrating, not a chore and frustrating. ;)

Maybe Duolingo's methodology isn't working for you.  :-\
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 11:21:18 AM
Tomar (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/portuguese-english/tomar), levar (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/portuguese-english/levar), pegar (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/portuguese-english/pegar) and tirar (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/portuguese-english/tirar) all mean 'to take' but they differ in the words they can also mean, so it depends on the context.

In general, 'tomar', 'pegar' and 'tirar' are used to describe something that is taken from someplace whereas 'levar' is something that is taken/carried somewhere.

One down, three to go. :chin:

'Tirar' by itself can be also used to mean taking something from inside something. 'Pegar could also be used, but with accompanying words, such as 'pegar de dentro do/da...'

(The struggle continues...) :whew:

'Tomar' is commonly used to mean take something from someone whereas 'pegar' is a generic 'to take'. :grin:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 11:25:29 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 13, 2019, 05:03:13 PM
I'm going to say "tomar" is like take a drink.

"Levar" is take as in lift something.

"Pegar" is just take.

"Tirar" is like take away or pull away from someone/something.

Those are my guesses.

Very close! :smilenod:

Yes, 'tomar' can mean take a drink as well, as in 'tomar um gole' (literally take a swallow :P).

Just don't ever say you took someone somewhere using 'pegar', which is also slang for 'to hook up with'.  ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 11:28:27 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on November 13, 2019, 07:05:16 PM
I want to guess.  :oooh-me!:
Tomar: to drink. To take/grab.
Levar: To carry something from one place to another.
Pegar: To glue. To hit/strike.
Tirar: To throw. To pull. To shoot.

The Spanish language influence is there (pegar and tirar) :P

:hug:
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
Penso, logo existo. Mas o que eu sou ?; essa é a questão. Meu destino está escrito desde o início ou estou me criando com minhas ações? Ou são os dois? Tenho uma natureza essencial ou sou simplesmente um espectador de uma cena de confusão em massa?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
Penso, logo existo. Mas o que eu sou ?; essa é a questão. Meu destino está escrito desde o início ou estou me criando com minhas ações? Ou são os dois? Tenho uma natureza essencial ou sou simplesmente um espectador de uma cena de confusão em massa?

Isso é muita coisa para a minha cabeça  ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
Penso, logo existo. Mas o que eu sou ?; essa é a questão. Meu destino está escrito desde o início ou estou me criando com minhas ações? Ou são os dois? Tenho uma natureza essencial ou sou simplesmente um espectador de uma cena de confusão em massa?

Isso é muita coisa para a minha cabeça  ;D


Mas preciso ter a resposta, e somente você pode dar.
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 01, 2019, 01:59:17 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
Penso, logo existo. Mas o que eu sou ?; essa é a questão. Meu destino está escrito desde o início ou estou me criando com minhas ações? Ou são os dois? Tenho uma natureza essencial ou sou simplesmente um espectador de uma cena de confusão em massa?

Isso é muita coisa para a minha cabeça  ;D


Mas preciso ter a resposta, e somente você pode dar.

Você certamente está me confundindo com outra pessoa! ;D
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: jumbojak on December 01, 2019, 02:06:12 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
Penso, logo existo. Mas o que eu sou ?; essa é a questão. Meu destino está escrito desde o início ou estou me criando com minhas ações? Ou são os dois? Tenho uma natureza essencial ou sou simplesmente um espectador de uma cena de confusão em massa?

Isso é muita coisa para a minha cabeça  ;D


Mas preciso ter a resposta, e somente você pode dar.

My need to have an answer is something you BLANK give?
Title: Re: Discussão em português
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 11, 2019, 12:40:26 AM
Quote from: jumbojak on December 01, 2019, 02:06:12 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 30, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on November 30, 2019, 07:01:01 PM
Penso, logo existo. Mas o que eu sou ?; essa é a questão. Meu destino está escrito desde o início ou estou me criando com minhas ações? Ou são os dois? Tenho uma natureza essencial ou sou simplesmente um espectador de uma cena de confusão em massa?

Isso é muita coisa para a minha cabeça  ;D


Mas preciso ter a resposta, e somente você pode dar.

My need to have an answer is something you BLANK give?

Almost! :grin:

"But I need to have an answer, and only you can give it."