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Children in Foster Care?

Started by WogglebugLovingFilms, December 14, 2016, 06:37:04 AM

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Davin

I mean, it's not the worst troll. I almost makes me want to respond to it. I probably would if it could provide even the slightest appearance of a civil discussion.

But I don't mind talking to other people about some topics the troll brings up.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Magdalena

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2017, 08:15:34 PM
I mean, it's not the worst troll. I almost makes me want to respond to it...

I know what you mean, Davin.



:grin:


"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Tank

Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:09:46 PM
....

Tank, is that a hungry troll? (Your avatar)

It's Fizzgig from The Dark Crystal.

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.


Can someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

It adds nothing to growing up except myths dressed up as truth.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Magdalena


"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Magdalena

Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
It's a good film.
If you say so.  :shifty:
I hope it's better than the movie Davin suggested, the one with the man riding a buffalo.  ;D

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Dave

Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.

Can someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

Because, apart from the traditional "authority" it has taken upon itself over the centuries (which is now fading away in many European countries) it is not necessary. Originally it was probably just the codification the rules set out by the leaders to ensure the tribe had a chance of survival. Basically, "You look after me and mine and I will look after you and yours - just don't do silly or nasty things. OK?"  Of course, human nature bent that into a pretzel pretty fast . . . There is power and riches to be aquired out of that idea! Do the really organised churches aquired power and riches.

If course a lot of people broke the rules, a lot of those being the ones that were supposed to enforce them. The basic set if rules probably predate Bible.v1, preserving the tribe is a survival imperstive, all the added crap is superfluous and unecessary.

Men in medieval frocks, or even smart suits, standing up front conducting songs etc are not really needed - what is needed is a decent, pragmstic, education system, including responsible parenting skills. But, in a near theocratic society there is little chance of that.

You may possibly be a troll, Aggie, but thanks for the oppotunities to find new ways to reiterate the arguments!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Davin

Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
It's a good film.
If you say so.  :shifty:
I hope it's better than the movie Davin suggested, the one with the man riding a buffalo.  ;D
I don't know if it's better, there weren't any buffaloes (let alone men riding them), in The dark Crystal.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.

Yes, a moral framework is important but you don't need religion specifically for that.  Morality and ethics are not the exclusive property of religion.

QuoteCan someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

Religion is not unimportant to a child's upbringing, it just isn't important either.  Because religion doesn't provide any benefits that can't be gotten elsewhere, it's an optional item -- like a belief in Santa Claus growing up.  Fine if you had it, but you're not missing anything if you didn't. 
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2017, 08:15:34 PM
I mean, it's not the worst troll. I almost makes me want to respond to it. I probably would if it could provide even the slightest appearance of a civil discussion.

But I don't mind talking to other people about some topics the troll brings up.

A sensible approach.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Bad Penny II

So what if a kid doesn't buy the Christian bullshit?  All the morality is built on,,, bullshit.
I vaguely remember as an adolescent hypocrisy bothering me, I've got over it but I think the young are still bothered by it.
The public schools in Oz have a scripture class every week, if you opt out you can go to the library.  Some would like to offer ethics classes for non believers but some religiosities object for reasons; of control I suppose.

Why not provide religion as a base for raising children?
It doesn't explain the world satisfactorily for some kids, instead of be given guidance they can accept they get crap, I mean, I could have, I could have been a proper caring human if it wasn't those godlies.
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Davin

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 04, 2017, 12:34:53 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.

Yes, a moral framework is important but you don't need religion specifically for that.  Morality and ethics are not the exclusive property of religion.
I really don't get how theists after all the horrible shit religious people have done in the name of their religion while citing their religious texts, keep trying the claim that those without religion have no morals. This troll aside, it's not uncommon in real people.

Quote from: BooksCatsEt
QuoteCan someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

Religion is not unimportant to a child's upbringing, it just isn't important either.  Because religion doesn't provide any benefits that can't be gotten elsewhere, it's an optional item -- like a belief in Santa Claus growing up.  Fine if you had it, but you're not missing anything if you didn't.
Religious teachings also provide many cases of false information. For example, how long was from the discovery that the Earth was not the center of everything and when the Catholic church finally accepted reality? And in all that time, the religious teachings were wrong. So not only does it not provide any benefits, but it provides "answers" that are demonstrably wrong, which is harmful in my opinion.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Bad Penny II

Quote from: Davin on October 04, 2017, 03:09:41 PMbut it provides "answers" that are demonstrably wrong, which is harmful in my opinion.

Ye
Take my advice, don't listen to me.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Davin on October 04, 2017, 03:09:41 PM
Religious teachings also provide many cases of false information. For example, how long was from the discovery that the Earth was not the center of everything and when the Catholic church finally accepted reality? And in all that time, the religious teachings were wrong. So not only does it not provide any benefits, but it provides "answers" that are demonstrably wrong, which is harmful in my opinion.

I believe the Sister was focusing on the bible's moral teachings -- don't kill, don't steal, don't break your word -- rather than the avalanche of facts about time and nature that it gets wrong. 

Of course, those moral teachings still have to be heavily cherry-picked and are questionable in my opinion.  For instance: don't murder because god says only he gets to kill indiscriminately and you'll be horribly punished for poaching on his private rights.  This is moral instruction thru mindless obedience and fear of punishment.

I think, since we need to encourage kids emphatic tendencies anyway, why not bend that twig early and start out teaching morality based on the golden rule (much older than bible teachings) and, yes, self-interest: everyone enjoys being alive as much as you do and it would be bad to deprive anyone of life.  Also a place where people ran around randomly killing would not be safe for you to live in.  (We can get into the weeds about self-defense, crazy people, terrorists and guns later)

A little reading about Humanist morality: Better without God
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany