[Asmodean Prime]

Oh, alright then, just to wrap the matter up.  I never said anybody should trust me.  Who am I that anybody should trust me?  I am just human after all, and fallible.  If you put your unconditional trust in me, it is guaranteed that I will let you down at some point.

Dont trust me, but at least consider the things I say, and look into these things.  That is the most I can ask.

[Big Mac]

Eh we've all made mistakes, however your Messiah states to take the plank out of your eye before you try and remove the speck out of your brother's eye. That standard basically means this (to me): "Keep your nose in your own damn business, you'll probalby never be good enough to correct someone else so shut up!!!""

[Asmodean Prime]

i think you're right, there, Bigmac.

I think we (meaning me), are often guilty of pointing out other people's faults as a way of covering up our own failings and making us feel better about ourselves.

[Big Mac]

Well just a standard no Christian has yet to meet. Cults tend to do that. Just a thought.

[iplaw]

I think the Bible is clear on stating that perfection is unattainable.  Am I to understand that cults are the only social orders who proposed idealistic standards?  Come on Big Mac I expect better arguments from you than that.  Or are you just a F.A.G. who mumbles about hybrid cars and coporations?

[Big Mac]

No, but Cults propose nearly impossible if not downright impossible standards. If you fail you must feel shame and embarrassment for not pleasing your leader. Jesus is a cult figure, he has the classic traits.

1.) He is revered as the son of God or a very very important messenger.

2.) He branches off of a previously established religion that is more or less legitimate at the time.

3.) He is attributed to be all knowing and able to do ANYTHING. He walks on water, cures the blind, casts out demons, etc.

4.) He focuses on the doom of the people instead of how to attain happiness and serenity.

5.) He is persecuted by authorities for his teachings and is eventually killed. Instead of being acknowledged as a criminal (several verse mention buying a sword) he is martyred by his followers.

So yes, by those points, I feel that Christianity is just a cult.

[MommaSquid]

No, but Cults propose nearly impossible if not downright impossible standards. If you fail you must feel shame and embarrassment for not pleasing your leader. Jesus is a cult figure, he has the classic traits.

1.) He is revered as the son of God or a very very important messenger.

2.) He branches off of a previously established religion that is more or less legitimate at the time.

3.) He is attributed to be all knowing and able to do ANYTHING. He walks on water, cures the blind, casts out demons, etc.

4.) He focuses on the doom of the people instead of how to attain happiness and serenity.

5.) He is persecuted by authorities for his teachings and is eventually killed. Instead of being acknowledged as a criminal (several verse mention buying a sword) he is martyred by his followers.

So yes, by those points, I feel that Christianity is just a cult.

Nicely done!

[Asmodean Prime]

Well, I think it depends on whether you see Jesus as just another historical 'cult' or 'occultic' figure, -  or as something entirely different, and special, which I myself see Him as..- in other words, nothing less than the Son of God manifested in the flesh, and wholly unique.

Many people have tried or attempted to 'water down' the importance of Jesus, such as he is a 'good man', or a 'prophet', or a 'great teacher'.  None of this holds up under scrutiny though, as it's all or nothing in my opinion.  Jesus never described himself as just a great prophet or teacher, but as the Son of God.  If He is not the Son of God, then he is also not a prophet, great teacher, good man, etc, but rather the most 'deluded' of all teachers. He makes some bold and inescapable claims.  Either they are wholly valid, or they are wholly misguided.  I think everyone needs to examine and make their own choice regarding His claims.

Pick your stall and stick with it.

[Whitney]

Without getting a bible out and reading everything Jesus said again...didn't he say he was the son of man but never actually claimed to be the son of god?

[Asmodean Prime]

Laetus, Yes, But I believe that He was speaking in His station as a mortal human at that point.  He also said that He would be restored to the glory with the father that he enjoyed before the foundation of the world.  He also said that 'I and my father are one'.   I think He must have necessarily accepted some limitations as a human, (son of man), experiencing all our difficulties, how else could he have stood in for mankind?

[MommaSquid]

Reference the book of John:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=31;

 

I always like to find the answer for myself.  Bible Gateway makes it pretty easy.

[Asmodean Prime]

mommasquid, time prohibits me from clicking on the link you mention at the moment, but I will surely explore it when I do have time.

[MommaSquid]

Without getting a bible out and reading everything Jesus said again...didn't he say he was the son of man but never actually claimed to be the son of god?

Reference the book of John:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=31;

I always like to find the answer for myself.  Bible Gateway makes it pretty easy.

Hope the link helps you,  Laetusatheos.  (There, that's better.)

[Whitney]

Without getting a bible out and reading everything Jesus said again...didn't he say he was the son of man but never actually claimed to be the son of god?

Reference the book of John:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... ersion=31;

I always like to find the answer for myself.  Bible Gateway makes it pretty easy.

Hope the link helps you,  Laetusatheos.  (There, that's better.)

Yes, thanks.

[iplaw]

If you fail you must feel shame and embarrassment for not pleasing your leader.

Can you give me a quote from Christ where he requires shame and embarassment for not living up to the standard.