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Do people use the word "racist" in a relatively exaggerated way?

Started by MusicLovingAtheist, December 23, 2014, 10:26:32 PM

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MusicLovingAtheist

Okay, so pasta chick told me to tell people when I am making a "thought experiment". I dunno entirely what that is supposed to mean but I'll just put it here anyways as a disclaimer.

So I see people talking about racism all the time. You can't say anything stereotypical, and you can't say the word "nigger", you can't say the word "jew", and to a lesser extent you can't say the word "spic" or "savages" or whatever. So the way I see it is there are two types of racist. There is the liberal racist, who sees other races and finds sort of a disparity between the two and is willing to voice an honest and unprejudice opinion about it. Then there are the radical right wing racists. I think you understand what I am talking about, but just to make it clearer, I am talking about red necks and kkk.

So the disparity I am talking about with liberal "racists" are people who stereotype black people, or talk about them in a joking manner, but don't actually hate them and wouldn't actually do anything to harm the black race. I identify with that category. Honestly I find black people to be annoying, a lot of the time. I do not like sitting near them on the bus. I do not like the way they dress. I do not like the way that they butcher the English language. I think their music is incredibly stupid (and I mean it significantly lacks style, musical ability, innovation, new ideas, aka rap music). I think the cologne they wear is often nauseating. I think it is appalling that they all live in poor neighborhoods and some of them actually embrace that lifestyle like it's cool. However, I would go to bat for them if I had to stick up for a black person. I wouldn't want them eliminated from our culture. I don't quite think that they are less intelligent than I am. I think they are severely uneducated sometimes, which is apparent by the way they butcher the English language. And there are a lot of intelligent black people who are given the opportunity to succeed in life.

Recusant

Quote from: MusicLovingAtheist on December 23, 2014, 10:26:32 PM
Okay, so pasta chick told me to tell people when I am making a "thought experiment". I dunno entirely what that is supposed to mean but I'll just put it here anyways as a disclaimer.

So I see people talking about racism all the time. You can't say anything stereotypical, and you can't say the word "nigger", you can't say the word "jew", and to a lesser extent you can't say the word "spic" or "savages" or whatever. So the way I see it is there are two types of racist. There is the liberal racist, who sees other races and finds sort of a disparity between the two and is willing to voice an honest and unprejudice opinion about it. Then there are the radical right wing racists. I think you understand what I am talking about, but just to make it clearer, I am talking about red necks and kkk.

So the disparity I am talking about with liberal "racists" are people who stereotype black people, or talk about them in a joking manner, but don't actually hate them and wouldn't actually do anything to harm the black race. I identify with that category. Honestly I find black people to be annoying, a lot of the time. I do not like sitting near them on the bus. I do not like the way they dress. I do not like the way that they butcher the English language. I think their music is incredibly stupid (and I mean it significantly lacks style, musical ability, innovation, new ideas, aka rap music). I think the cologne they wear is often nauseating. I think it is appalling that they all live in poor neighborhoods and some of them actually embrace that lifestyle like it's cool. However, I would go to bat for them if I had to stick up for a black person. I wouldn't want them eliminated from our culture. I don't quite think that they are less intelligent than I am. I think they are severely uneducated sometimes, which is apparent by the way they butcher the English language. And there are a lot of intelligent black people who are given the opportunity to succeed in life.


When I saw the title of this thread, what came to mind is people accusing somebody of being racist when they express their dislike of Islam and attribute to Islam the negative things that people do in its name. That dislike and attribution may be wrong or right, but I don't think it's racism in and of itself.

As for the OP, it looks like a distinction is being made between mild racism and rabid racism. It's a valid distinction, but mild racism is still racism, in my opinion.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Biggus Dickus

Well isn't this simply lovely. Racist, misogynistic, women hating, child / serial killer admirer has posted some additional filth.

Think I'll take a leave of absence until the stench departs from my nostrils.
"Some people just need a high-five. In the face. With a chair."

xSilverPhinx

People do use the word "racism" too much as a stand in for xenophobia, and anti Islam as Recusant mentioned but that doesn't undermine the fact that racism is still racism and is unfounded. Don't want to sit next to black people on a bus? Why not? How is that not racist? If it were the other way round wouldn't that make you feel indignant? I find it difficult to believe that there is a particular group of people that you  don't find annoying. Dialects naturally diverge, many sociolinguists defend it as something normal. People living in poorer housing is a social issue, not a racial one.

Do you consider yourself to be a rational person? What is the rationality between discriminating against a group of people based on skin colour and culture?
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


MusicLovingAtheist

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on December 23, 2014, 11:39:54 PM
People do use the word "racism" too much as a stand in for xenophobia, and anti Islam as Recusant mentioned but that doesn't undermine the fact that racism is still racism and is unfounded. Don't want to sit next to black people on a bus? Why not? How is that not racist? If it were the other way round wouldn't that make you feel indignant? I find it difficult to believe that there is a particular group of people that you  don't find annoying. Dialects naturally diverge, many sociolinguists defend it as something normal. People living in poorer housing is a social issue, not a racial one.

Do you consider yourself to be a rational person? What is the rationality between discriminating against a group of people based on skin colour and culture?
I am not trying to discriminate, I just see it happen and it makes me feel a certain way. If I didn't want to sit next to someone who wears an orange shirt, is that racist? Pretty much the same thing as not wanting to sit next to black people. Something about them makes me uncomfortable, just like someone who doesn't want to sit next to someone who wears orange shirts. It's really not racism, I think that people just like to say that it is because they are on a one track mind that is all about promoting the propaganda. I think that "racism" is just a guilt trip that was created by liberals. My younger brother told that to me and a few of the people who I talk to regularly have said that to me online as well. I am kind of inclined to believe it too because I see nothing wrong with what I described. I am not hurting anyone.

MusicLovingAtheist

Quote from: Bruno on December 23, 2014, 11:15:58 PM
Well isn't this simply lovely. Racist, misogynistic, women hating, child / serial killer admirer has posted some additional filth.

Think I'll take a leave of absence until the stench departs from my nostrils.
The heat of the day, the foul smell of decay
As they wait:. For the inferno to be
UNLEASHED!

Asmodean

I agree with the prior expressed opinion that the term "racist" is being overused. It may seem sometimes like people actively look for racism where there is none, but personally, I think a lot of it is down to people not being too good with labeling things, yet they do need to label opinions they disagree with somehow.

As for all racism racism being racism as Recusant (I think) pointed out, well, so is the flu. There are degrees of negativity there that I think should not be ignored.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

I think that we may need to define a new 'ism; culturalism. It appears to be a particular culture that MLA is defining here. I think the term racist has become overused. Culturalism would also be unacceptable as it means one sees the stereotype before the individual, it degrades the individual.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

But what if one is looking at a larger picture, one where an individual is too micro-level to matter?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

Quote from: Asmodean on December 24, 2014, 07:39:32 AM
But what if one is looking at a larger picture, one where an individual is too micro-level to matter?
Well that's the rub isn't it. As long as one is prepared to meet the individual as an individual, and not presume they are typical of their stereotype, then I think that's the best one can manage.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Ecurb Noselrub

Quote from: Tank on December 24, 2014, 07:45:11 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 24, 2014, 07:39:32 AM
But what if one is looking at a larger picture, one where an individual is too micro-level to matter?
Well that's the rub isn't it. As long as one is prepared to meet the individual as an individual, and not presume they are typical of their stereotype, then I think that's the best one can manage.

This. There are always going to be groups and cultures that we don't like and don't want to be around. That's just personal taste, not racism.  The key is whether we can deal with a specific individual without categorizing them according to their race, nationality, etc.  There are barriers to doing this, but it's usually worth the effort.

I didn't realize "Jew" was a verboten word. I have Jewish lawyer acquaintances and we refer to their Jewishness in discussions about religion and Israel.  Not really offensive in itself.


Asmodean

Quote from: Tank on December 24, 2014, 07:45:11 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 24, 2014, 07:39:32 AM
But what if one is looking at a larger picture, one where an individual is too micro-level to matter?
Well that's the rub isn't it. As long as one is prepared to meet the individual as an individual, and not presume they are typical of their stereotype, then I think that's the best one can manage.
Actually, I was seeing it from a slightly different rub; why should you as an individual take offence if someone carpet-bombs a culture you may or may not identify with with fitting labels? Moreover, why should your reaction ever be that person's problem?

Here is an example:

I find those beards they have in some of the more religious cultures distasteful. If I voice that opinion, how is that an attack on an individual, even if that person happens to wear one of those nasty things around his chin? Am I saying that I'm repulsed by a [given] hasidic jew, for instance? No. I'm saying the beards that are way too common in their culture are aesthetically displeasing to me.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Pasta Chick

Quote from: Asmodean on December 24, 2014, 01:16:44 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 24, 2014, 07:45:11 AM
Quote from: Asmodean on December 24, 2014, 07:39:32 AM
But what if one is looking at a larger picture, one where an individual is too micro-level to matter?
Well that's the rub isn't it. As long as one is prepared to meet the individual as an individual, and not presume they are typical of their stereotype, then I think that's the best one can manage.
Actually, I was seeing it from a slightly different rub; why should you as an individual take offence if someone carpet-bombs a culture you may or may not identify with with fitting labels? Moreover, why should your reaction ever be that person's problem?

Here is an example:

I find those beards they have in some of the more religious cultures distasteful. If I voice that opinion, how is that an attack on an individual, even if that person happens to wear one of those nasty things around his chin? Am I saying that I'm repulsed by a [given] hasidic jew, for instance? No. I'm saying the beards that are way too common in their culture are aesthetically displeasing to me.

The issue with these statement is that there is no need whatsoever for them to include race or religion. 

"I dislike long beards" is fine.  There is nothing else that needs to be said.  You're expressing personal preference.

"I dislike the long beards Jews wear" edges into racism.  Why does it matter that they're Jewish?  Do you only dislike beards on Jewish people? 

I have more, but I gotta run and make sure none of the yaks are loose so, maybe later.  Also it's Christmas and I'm not sure I feel like gettig into the subtlities of racism.

Asmodean

Quote from: Pasta Chick on December 24, 2014, 01:44:31 PM
"I dislike long beards" is fine.  There is nothing else that needs to be said.  You're expressing personal preference.
On one person, such a beard may be borderline acceptable. On a whole population in the same place..? A different matter. Thus, there may well be "more to be said".

Quote
"I dislike the long beards Jews wear" edges into racism.  Why does it matter that they're Jewish?  Do you only dislike beards on Jewish people?
What if they don't go well with those black hats?

Quote
Also it's Christmas and I'm not sure I feel like gettig into the subtlities of racism.
>:(. Spoil The Asmo's fun, why don't you, you utter Asmo-hater, you!  >:(
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Biggus Dickus

Quote from: MusicLovingAtheist on December 23, 2014, 10:26:32 PM
Honestly I find black people to be annoying, a lot of the time. I do not like sitting near them on the bus. I do not like the way they dress. I do not like the way that they butcher the English language. I think their music is incredibly stupid (and I mean it significantly lacks style, musical ability, innovation, new ideas, aka rap music). I think the cologne they wear is often nauseating. I think it is appalling that they all live in poor neighborhoods and some of them actually embrace that lifestyle like it's cool.

When I think about this I honestly I have to admit I too feel the same way about people sometimes. For example let's say I'm sitting in a movie theatre waiting for the show to start and see some pimply-ass white 20 year old walking up the aisle, that will freak me right out.
"Some people just need a high-five. In the face. With a chair."