What's your great work?

[Pharaoh Cat]

On another forum I asked a friendly fellow if his great work was self-overcoming.  I then offered, as my own great work, not being full of shit, which, for me, is harder than it sounds.

Your great work is whatever additive, subtractive, or preservative process you have continually under way, targeted at yourself rather than the outside world.  Not being full of shit, for example, is largely a subtractive process.

Maybe your great work is learning.  Or maybe it's bodily perfection, as might be the case for a weight lifter.

What is it?

[Melmoth]

On another forum I asked a friendly fellow if his great work was self-overcoming.  I then offered, as my own great work, not being full of shit, which, for me, is harder than it sounds.

I'm surprised you find it hard - you seem amazingly sincere. You succeed, perhaps too well.

If I had to improve myself, which I don't, I'd try to become more intellectually passive. That is, more naturally able to recognise that thoughts and opinions are just toys, and that ideas alone can neither harm nor help anyone. Concepts don't deserve to be worshipped, feared, ran away from, affirmed or denied - just played with. So when I debate, for example, I'd prefer to do it in the spirit of good fun, free of higher pretensions, and certainly not from a position of I am right, they are wrong. Sometimes this habit slips but I'll usually realise this ten minutes later and try to redeem myself for it.

I really don't get on with people who think that their world view, usually hackneyed and internet-assembled, is important enough that they can be rude about it. It doesn't matter whether they're selling it or defending it. 'New Atheists' who are rude to Christians annoy me especially because the hypocrisy of it stinks. And although they emphasise the diversity of atheists, they still tend to assume that they speak for us all. They'll dismiss the entire religious tradition as weak, dumb and irrational after a bare minimum of research, then whine incessantly about being generalised and talked down to by the religious. That's appalling behaviour.

[Stevil]

Being a son, a father, a husband and a brother, these are the most difficult tasks for me and the source of my desire for self improvement. When one role conflicts with another, oh boy, what difficult decisions need to be made.
It seems the older I get, the more challenging life becomes.

[Pharaoh Cat]

If I had to improve myself, which I don't, I'd try to become more intellectually passive. That is, more naturally able to recognise that thoughts and opinions are just toys, and that ideas alone can neither harm nor help anyone. Concepts don't deserve to be worshipped, feared, ran away from, affirmed or denied - just played with.

Consider this, then: http://paradoxuganda.blogspot.com/2008/05/deadly-ideas.html

I really don't get on with people who think that their world view, usually hackneyed and internet-assembled, is important enough that they can be rude about it.

Especially since rudeness is poor strategy.  Most people, regardless whether they agree, disagree, or have no opinion with regard to my position, will perceive me as an asshole or at least an arrogant bastard if I'm rude, the exception being those scenarios where the other party is so willfully obtuse that many are thinking, "Oh, I get it: Troll."
 
Also, there's the long-term irrelevance of winning an argument.  Sure, competitive debate can be a fun hobby for some - not for me, incidentally - but next week or next month, what will matter, if anything does, is wisdom, and who learned it, and who didn't.  I love nothing better than to concede to someone else, "You're right!  I had a blind spot there."

I would rather be wiser than I was yesterday, than the winner of a contest with someone I've never met and probably never will, especially if no money is at stake!

[Pharaoh Cat]

Being a son, a father, a husband and a brother, these are the most difficult tasks for me and the source of my desire for self improvement.

What attributes have you found most conducive to excellence in these areas?

[Melmoth]

Consider this, then: http://paradoxuganda.blogspot.com/2008/05/deadly-ideas.html

Ah but having an idea and acting on it are two different things. My point was not to take ideas too seriously, or in other words, not to have conviction in them. I agree with Aristotle - a wise man can entertain ideas without accepting them - but I would expand upon it. In an ideal world, I would entertain all ideas while accepting none.

That doesn't make debating a 'competitive sport', where the goal is to 'win', but an art form. There is no goal or purpose to it. It's simply enjoyable and (sometimes) enlightening. As you say:

I would rather be wiser than I was yesterday, than the winner of a contest with someone I've never met and probably never will, especially if no money is at stake!

[Stevil]

Being a son, a father, a husband and a brother, these are the most difficult tasks for me and the source of my desire for self improvement.

What attributes have you found most conducive to excellence in these areas?

I'll tell you when (if) I get there.
But having respect for others is a big necessity.

[Twentythree]

I have found a small triumph against a mortal and seductive enemy. I used to find solace in the oblivion of alcohol. I allowed it to rule me in thought and purpose. I tried going to AA but hated the repeated mantra of being powerless. This is a bold and blatant lie. Life is nothing but a string of choices. If I chose one path now I can choose different path later. I am not powerless over alcohol. I have choices and I have triumphed. I will be celebrating 2 years sober in April and I cannot describe the change it has made in my life.
I had always had a skeptical personality. Realizing the cold reality of nature and the fact that one day, for many of us without our even knowing, our light will be shut off. All of our hopes, dreams, aspirations, love, hate and fear extinguished in an instant. This knowledge I think for a time made me bitter. I was also bitter about the economic circumstances in which I was raised. Always seeing wealthier or more well of children as more privileged. I was angry and frustrated at constantly moving, finding no stability and always having to say goodbye. I was a poor kid with a mother who found no help in love. I saw routine violence. I found fear with ease and regularity. This chaos I think I recognized early and made a move to extract myself form it. I moved into my own apartment at 17 have always had steady work and I always felt a great deal of pride in my ability to fend for myself. As a substitute for natural chaos I selected unnatural chaos. I fed it to myself daily. Allowing myself to seek oblivion. I used drinking as a tool, as a crutch and built an identity around it. For all of my success and my ambition to find stability I found chaos easier to obtain. So in this bitterness and chaos I sank. Drinking went from social to private, from weekly to daily to hourly. I was waking up shaking and sweating, drinking to feel normal, then drinking to feel happy then drinking to feel guilty then drinking to feel normal again. A wicked cycle perpetuated. I could see myself drifting into solitude. Staking my relationships, my health and my freedom in the comfort I found at the bottom of a bottle. Its strange to see this story, briefly outlined here but it brings me to the broader point. The fact that I am in control. And it has been my great work to build a new identity around myself based on personal responsibility. Everything we are and everything we leave behind will all be a product of our choices. There are no victims no winners no losers. There are just people, each on their own path of decisions, choices make the man and build the legacy. In this I am constantly reminded of what legacy I want to leave. The man I want to be. I want to take ownership of each choice. And in making these choices I want to be constantly aware of the fact that each day is an opportunity. Each moment Is an opportunity to be grateful and feel fulfilled. To put my life into a world perspective and historical perspective I have a dream existence. I have a comfortable job in a developed country in an age where clean water and sufficient medicine is abundant. I live in an age where information and communication is freely available and viewed as a right and not a privilege. Out of all the other times in all the other centuries in all the other countries in all the world in all the universe I have the opportunity to live right now. I have the opportunity to see some of the greatest minds discovering the true nature of reality and unlocking the potential of limitless energy and everlasting health. I don't have to go to work every day. I have the opportunity to go to work every day. It is in this that I find the greatest joy and fulfillment, that the me that I am in this moment in time compared to all the other places times or things I could be is exceptional. I don't have to make tough choices I have the opportunity to live in a time and place where I have choices. Perhaps that's it. Perhaps my great work can be summed up with the simple changing in perspective that each choice is an opportunity. Allowing myself to view my existence through the lens of natural history makes each moment a fascinating and awe inspiring opportunity. To fill my life with knowledge, love, learning and joy and to hopefully leave behind me the spirit of exuberance that can come only when we fully realize just how lucky and amazing these lives of ours are.

[xSilverPhinx]

I have found a small triumph against a mortal and seductive enemy. I used to find solace in the oblivion of alcohol. I allowed it to rule me in thought and purpose. I tried going to AA but hated the repeated mantra of being powerless. This is a bold and blatant lie. Life is nothing but a string of choices. If I chose one path now I can choose different path later. I am not powerless over alcohol. I have choices and I have triumphed. I will be celebrating 2 years sober in April and I cannot describe the change it has made in my life.
I had always had a skeptical personality. Realizing the cold reality of nature and the fact that one day, for many of us without our even knowing, our light will be shut off. All of our hopes, dreams, aspirations, love, hate and fear extinguished in an instant. This knowledge I think for a time made me bitter. I was also bitter about the economic circumstances in which I was raised. Always seeing wealthier or more well of children as more privileged. I was angry and frustrated at constantly moving, finding no stability and always having to say goodbye. I was a poor kid with a mother who found no help in love. I saw routine violence. I found fear with ease and regularity. This chaos I think I recognized early and made a move to extract myself form it. I moved into my own apartment at 17 have always had steady work and I always felt a great deal of pride in my ability to fend for myself. As a substitute for natural chaos I selected unnatural chaos. I fed it to myself daily. Allowing myself to seek oblivion. I used drinking as a tool, as a crutch and built an identity around it. For all of my success and my ambition to find stability I found chaos easier to obtain. So in this bitterness and chaos I sank. Drinking went from social to private, from weekly to daily to hourly. I was waking up shaking and sweating, drinking to feel normal, then drinking to feel happy then drinking to feel guilty then drinking to feel normal again. A wicked cycle perpetuated. I could see myself drifting into solitude. Staking my relationships, my health and my freedom in the comfort I found at the bottom of a bottle. Its strange to see this story, briefly outlined here but it brings me to the broader point. The fact that I am in control. And it has been my great work to build a new identity around myself based on personal responsibility. Everything we are and everything we leave behind will all be a product of our choices. There are no victims no winners no losers. There are just people, each on their own path of decisions, choices make the man and build the legacy. In this I am constantly reminded of what legacy I want to leave. The man I want to be. I want to take ownership of each choice. And in making these choices I want to be constantly aware of the fact that each day is an opportunity. Each moment Is an opportunity to be grateful and feel fulfilled. To put my life into a world perspective and historical perspective I have a dream existence. I have a comfortable job in a developed country in an age where clean water and sufficient medicine is abundant. I live in an age where information and communication is freely available and viewed as a right and not a privilege. Out of all the other times in all the other centuries in all the other countries in all the world in all the universe I have the opportunity to live right now. I have the opportunity to see some of the greatest minds discovering the true nature of reality and unlocking the potential of limitless energy and everlasting health. I don't have to go to work every day. I have the opportunity to go to work every day. It is in this that I find the greatest joy and fulfillment, that the me that I am in this moment in time compared to all the other places times or things I could be is exceptional. I don't have to make tough choices I have the opportunity to live in a time and place where I have choices. Perhaps that's it. Perhaps my great work can be summed up with the simple changing in perspective that each choice is an opportunity. Allowing myself to view my existence through the lens of natural history makes each moment a fascinating and awe inspiring opportunity. To fill my life with knowledge, love, learning and joy and to hopefully leave behind me the spirit of exuberance that can come only when we fully realize just how lucky and amazing these lives of ours are.

I like this ^

Carrying on in spite of everything that's against you. Well done

[Stevil]

There are no victims no winners no losers. There are just people, each on their own path of decisions, choices make the man and build the legacy.

Especially like this bit. Some people's journeys are more difficult than others, but life is worth fighting for.
Well done.

[Pharaoh Cat]

Ah but having an idea and acting on it are two different things. My point was not to take ideas too seriously, or in other words, not to have conviction in them. I agree with Aristotle - a wise man can entertain ideas without accepting them - but I would expand upon it. In an ideal world, I would entertain all ideas while accepting none.

An idea unacted upon will never hurt me, true, but it will never help me either.  Discussing ideas in the hypothetical can be fun, harmless, and strengthening to the mental apparatus, but is that all ideas are good for?  Every new law is the playing out of an idea.  Every new product or service offered for sale is the expression of an idea.  Every scientific experiment is the testing of an idea.       

When I envision a world where ideas are no longer acted upon, all I see in my mind's eye is stagnation.

[Melmoth]

An idea unacted upon will never hurt me, true, but it will never help me either.  Discussing ideas in the hypothetical can be fun, harmless, and strengthening to the mental apparatus, but is that all ideas are good for?  Every new law is the playing out of an idea.  Every new product or service offered for sale is the expression of an idea.  Every scientific experiment is the testing of an idea.      

When I envision a world where ideas are no longer acted upon, all I see in my mind's eye is stagnation.

Apologies again but I didn't say that ideas should never be acted upon - I said they should never be committed to (edit: actually, 'conviction' was the word i used but never mind). So if acting on an idea requires that you be committed to it, totally sure of it's truthfulness, before hand (ie. jumping off a cliff because you thought that you could fly) only then would it not happen. Acting out of open-minded uncertainty, running a scientific experiment for example, is fine.

Also, I'm of the school that thinking is more about rationalising actions that we've already done, maintaining the illusion of free will and autonomy, than about directing new ones.

[Wessik]

I wish to continually improve my ability to communicate with the written word, so that what I write may be insightful and tributary. It is...a work in progress.

[Ali]

There's a line from an Ani DiFranco song that I really like:

"She taught me how to wage cold war with quiet charm
But I just wanna walk through this life unarmed."

I think that's my work - just trying to keep my eyes and my hands and my heart open, all at the same time.

[Wessik]

I like that idea, Ali.