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What was the reason for the holocaust?

Started by Graham, December 02, 2008, 01:19:37 AM

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Graham

This may be a touchy subject for some but I was just wondering what reasons were behind the holocaust? It's for my philosophy class; my prof is a theist and it seems like he missed out on somethings. I kind of thought that Hitler killed the Jews because they didn't believe in Jesus. Does anyone know more?

Zarathustra

Quote from: "Graham"This may be a touchy subject for some but I was just wondering what reasons were behind the holocaust? It's for my philosophy class; my prof is a theist and it seems like he missed out on somethings. I kind of thought that Hitler killed the Jews because they didn't believe in Jesus. Does anyone know more?
Yes, I do. I am going to bed now, though. But if you specify what he is postulating (or maybe just avoiding to say, if I read your post right), I can respond tomorrow.
"Man does not draw his laws from nature, but impose them upon nature" - Kant
[size=85]English is not my native language, so please don't attack my grammar, attack my message instead[/size]

Sophus

It was Social Darwinism. Hitler believed the Aryan race was superior to any other for a number of ridiculous reasons and wanted to "purify" or "cleanse" the world of inferior races. The Jews, the Gypsys and so on. Hitler was a Roman Catholic but I believe his antisemitism was directed at the Jews (race) more so than the Jewish (religion).
‎"Christian doesn't necessarily just mean good. It just means better." - John Oliver

LARA

There was no one single reason.  There were many factors contributing to the mindset that allowed the Holocaust to happen.   Social Darwinism, or eugenics, was one.  Eugenics movements weren't just localized to Germany.  There were kind of the fashion in the 'civilized' world at the time.  Antisemitism was also widespread and reached a peak at the time.  It really wasn't just Germany, or it would have been stopped sooner.  Disbelief that anything so bad could really be happening was also a huge factor in the Holocaust. People just didn't want to see or believe what was happening. Economic factors and a nasty depression that hit Germany very hard was another contributing factor.  These things combined together so that it was easy for the Nazi's to remove any compassion the masses had for Jews in Germany.  They portrayed them as genetically inferior, immoral, rich and the reason for Germany's economic hardships.  Jewish people were limited in their employment, and people kept ousting them from their countries, so Jewish people simply had to develop strong international family ties and less desirable occupations to survive. They were weathering the depression better than others, being used to having to always be prepared for harsh times and persecution, and this also helped to make them a target as well as a source of wealth for the Nazi's to finance their war.  A good book to read on the Holocaust is Elie Weisel's "Night".  It gives a very straightforward account of the Holocaust from a survivor at the camps and is an excellent read.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
                                                                                                                    -Winston Smith, protagonist of 1984 by George Orwell

curiosityandthecat

Quote from: "Graham"This may be a touchy subject for some but I was just wondering what reasons were behind the holocaust?

Human nature, pure and simple.
-Curio

Graham

Thank you everyone that responded! Lara, your post is very informative you answered a lot of my questions. I just read "Night" last week. I think the book was well and very honest. Zarathustra, my professor took the content of the book and focused on how God was the reason for the Jews survival and just left the question of, "how could such evil happen?" (he is a good professor though, just things have been a little rushed due to my school being on strike for three weeks) I think the theists view is that when Wiesel went through a change but it didn't really happen. He entered the concentration camp with faith and lost it after reasoning with himself that there is no god. Then he returns to normal life with his faith was restored therefore he never lost it. I want mention that he did survive without the comfort of God though. But I might lose marks because my prof won't agree with that, he'll think I missed the point. Sophus, thank you for clearing up up the race and religion part. I was wondering about that.

Another thing I want to know is what is the purpose of the concentration camps? Was it just a test to see if the Jews were strong or was it just a punishment and a death?

Tom62

There were two types of camps. The "ordinary" concentration camp, where people were locked up who were opponents of the regime or political prisoners; and the extermination camps that were only there to eliminate "inferior" people from the face of the Earth. Many people ended up as slave laborers in the German industry (like IG Farben),  where they were treated just as badly as in the camps. They literally worked themselves to death.
The universe never did make sense; I suspect it was built on government contract.
Robert A. Heinlein

Zarathustra

Quote from: "Graham"Zarathustra, my professor took the content of the book and focused on how God was the reason for the Jews survival
I don't know this book. But from the responses I gather that Lara can take care of this one. Of the top of my head, I'll say that if god was the reason for their survival - why did most of them actually not survive?
Quoteand just left the question of, "how could such evil happen?"
It is an interesting question, that you have very good answers for above, and a few extra below. I would however - if I were an American citizen - be a lot more concerned with the question of, "how can such evil happen again? Right now, as we speak about this, but in my own society? Did we learn nothing from the holocaust?"
(Yes, I am thinking of Gitmo, Abu Graib and the "hidden" CIA torture-prisons around the world. Don't worry I'll stop the current politics henceforth.)
Quote(he is a good professor though, just things have been a little rushed due to my school being on strike for three weeks)
Good. Then it should not be a problem that he is a theist at all. I have had (and know)a few professors and scientists, who are also theists. But when at work, they are able to put their beliefs in a paranthesis, so to speak. And therefore completely open to rational discourse and investigation. If your professor is anything like that, he will love your questions.  :unsure: They quoted some well phrased Nietzsche passages out of context. And he was the first public atheist of modern time.
The point is: They quoted the bible as well. (Actually a lot more) But do we say that it implies he did it for christian reasons?
Reading the very well-researched answers for you above, I'd say the approach is somewhat different.  ;)

There is one thing that I feel ambivalent towards though: Morally I'm deeply opposed to the medical camps, but fact of the matter is that modern medicine would not be where it is today, if they hadn't crossed that line and made those experiments. And I do appreciate modern medicine a lot... especially when I am sick of course. It works way better than prayer for me.  :D
"Man does not draw his laws from nature, but impose them upon nature" - Kant
[size=85]English is not my native language, so please don't attack my grammar, attack my message instead[/size]

LARA

Quote
QuoteGraham wrote:
This may be a touchy subject for some but I was just wondering what reasons were behind the holocaust?


curiosityandthecat wrote:  Human nature, pure and simple.


Oh, so you curious cats think you're better than humans, huh?  Well let's see you catch a hummingbird without harming it, killing it, or eating it.  Now who is cooler?  
And how do you manage to keep the cat hair from getting in your disk drive?  Speciesist!


 :P  :D
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
                                                                                                                    -Winston Smith, protagonist of 1984 by George Orwell

curiosityandthecat

Quote from: "LARA"Oh, so you curious cats think you're better than humans, huh?  Well let's see you catch a hummingbird without harming it, killing it, or eating it.  Now who is cooler?  
And how do you manage to keep the cat hair from getting in your disk drive?  Speciesist!


 :P  ;)

As for the hummingbird, ask and ye shall receive.



Now back to your regularly scheduled Holocaust.  :blink:
-Curio

oldschooldoc

Quote from: "LARA"
Quote
QuoteGraham wrote:
This may be a touchy subject for some but I was just wondering what reasons were behind the holocaust?


curiosityandthecat wrote:  Human nature, pure and simple.


Oh, so you curious cats think you're better than humans, huh?  Well let's see you catch a hummingbird without harming it, killing it, or eating it.  Now who is cooler?  
And how do you manage to keep the cat hair from getting in your disk drive?  Speciesist!


 :P  :D

Funny stuff. Cats do tend to be all hoity-toity, lol.

Hitler was a bigot. He was one of the best self-promoters in history. I agree with whoever said it was more racially motivated than religiously, but I don't rule religion out all together. He was indeed roman catholic, and to him it was a bit like a modern day crusade.
OldSchoolDoc

"I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose freewill" - Neil Peart
"Imagine there's no Heaven, it's easy if you try..." - John Lennon

Tanker

I just want to point out that Jews do beleive in Jesus they even beleive he was a profet of god. Some jews even beleive he was the son of god ie; Jews for Jesus.
"I'd rather die the go to heaven" - William Murderface Murderface  Murderface-

I've been in fox holes, I'm still an atheist -Me-

God is a cake, and we all know what the cake is.

(my spelling, grammer, and punctuation suck, I know, but regardless of how much I read they haven't improved much since grade school. It's actually a bit of a family joke.

Zarathustra

Quote from: "Tanker"Some jews even beleive he was the son of god.
I would think the proper name for them would be "Christians" .  ;)
"Man does not draw his laws from nature, but impose them upon nature" - Kant
[size=85]English is not my native language, so please don't attack my grammar, attack my message instead[/size]

DennisK

I can't remember where I read this, but it was said that Hitler was greatly influenced by Martin Luther's anti-semitic writings, The Jews and Their Lies (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html).  I believe Hitler referenced it in Mein Kampf.  It would be very hard for me to accept that no religious dogma was involved in Hitler's outlook.
"If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality." -Halton Arp

Sophus

Quote from: "Zarathustra"
Quote from: "Tanker"Some jews even beleive he was the son of god.
I would think the proper name for them would be "Christians" .  ;)

You're confusing the religion for the race.
‎"Christian doesn't necessarily just mean good. It just means better." - John Oliver