Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 05:43:33 PM
Thank you Jesus.
More of the same?
EDIT: Thread spit - Tank
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 06:21:06 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 05:49:05 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 05:45:08 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 05:43:33 PM
Thank you Jesus.
More of the same?
More of the same what?
Post another 'atheist' song...chances are it may serve as another example.
Christians have their hymns and pages,
Hava Nagila's for the Jews,
Baptists have the rock of ages,
Atheists just sing the blues.
Romantics play Claire de Lune,
Born agains sing He is risen,
But no one ever wrote a tune,
For godless existentialism.
For Atheists,
There's no good news,
They'll never sing a song of faith.
For atheists,
They have a rule,
The "he" is always lowercase.
The "he" is always lowercase.
Some folks sing a Bach cantata,
Lutherans get Christmas trees,
Atheist songs add up to nada,
But they do have Sundays free.
Pentecostalists sing they sing to heaven,
Coptics have the books of scrolls,
Numerologists can count to seven,
Atheists have rock and roll.
For Atheists,
There's no good news,
They'll never sing a song of Faith.
In their songs,
They have a rule,
The "he" is always lowercase.
The "he" is always lowercase.
Catholics dress up for Mass,
And listen to, Gregorian chants.
Atheists just take a pass,
Watch football in their underpants.
Watch football in their underpants.
Atheists, Atheists, Atheists,
Don't have no songs!
--Steve Martin
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
Christians have their hymns and pages,
Hava Nagila's for the Jews,
Baptists have the rock of ages,
Atheists just sing the blues.
Romantics play Claire de Lune,
Born agains sing He is risen,
But no one ever wrote a tune,
For godless existentialism.
For Atheists,
There's no good news,
They'll never sing a song of faith.
For atheists,
They have a rule,
The "he" is always lowercase.
The "he" is always lowercase.
Some folks sing a Bach cantata,
Lutherans get Christmas trees,
Atheist songs add up to nada,
But they do have Sundays free.
Pentecostalists sing they sing to heaven,
Coptics have the books of scrolls,
Numerologists can count to seven,
Atheists have rock and roll.
For Atheists,
There's no good news,
They'll never sing a song of Faith.
In their songs,
They have a rule,
The "he" is always lowercase.
The "he" is always lowercase.
Catholics dress up for Mass,
And listen to, Gregorian chants.
Atheists just take a pass,
Watch football in their underpants.
Watch football in their underpants.
Atheists, Atheists, Atheists,
Don't have no songs!
--Steve Martin
Oh boy. You picked a doosey! Again this goes to show that Atheist songs
seem to sing about God more than anything else.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 06:56:17 PMOh boy. You picked a doosey! Again this goes to show that Atheist songs
seem to sing about God more than anything else.
Care to demonstrate? I ask because I don't see how a song about how atheists don't have song, has anything to do with god.
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 06:58:37 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 06:56:17 PMOh boy. You picked a doosey! Again this goes to show that Atheist songs
seem to sing about God more than anything else.
Care to demonstrate? I ask because I don't see how a song about how atheists don't have song, has anything to do with god.
I didn't demonstrate. Simply read and YOU tell me what the topic(s) is.
The point is that 'Atheist' songs have nothing to sing about except God/religion. The lesser point is that God is preached regardless whether the song is for or against. God is so important apparently, even those that disbelieve in all gods, seem to only sing about One. Not a whole lot of songs about the GSM out there is there? And if there is, the spoof is a play on God and His works vs the GSM and his similar works...again singing to the importance of One God.
Doesn't that frustrate the Atheist that wants nothing to do with "God"?
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 07:10:06 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 06:58:37 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 06:56:17 PMOh boy. You picked a doosey! Again this goes to show that Atheist songs
seem to sing about God more than anything else.
Care to demonstrate? I ask because I don't see how a song about how atheists don't have song, has anything to do with god.
I didn't demonstrate. Simply read and YOU tell me what the topic(s) is.
I just did, "[...]I don't see how a song about how atheists don't have song[...]"
The song "Judith", was about a person and not a god. Disgustipated was more about carrots than a god. The last one was a song about how atheists have no songs.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtThe point is that 'Atheist' songs have nothing to sing about except God/religion. The lesser point is that God is preached regardless whether the song is for or against. God is so important apparently, even those that disbelieve in all gods, seem to only sing about One. Not a whole lot of songs about the GSM out there is there? And if there is, the spoof is a play on God and His works vs the GSM and his similar works...again singing to the importance of One God.
Still, you really need to point out how a song that is about how atheists have no song, is really about god.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtDoesn't that frustrate the Atheist that wants nothing to do with "God"?
Doesn't what frustrate atheists? Do tell how a person who is say, frustrated with people thinking the Earth is flat, goes about expressing that frustration without mentioning that people think the Earth is flat? Likewise, the people that are frustrated with people that beleive in a god, are likely to have no reasonable course but to mention that there are people that believe in a god.
Maybe I used the wrong words. I didn't mean to imply that the songs are ABOUT God, but that the songs (for the most part) cannot be about anything else but the disbelief in God. The Judith song has so much Christianity infused into it, I don't see how you can deny it or fathom how you can say it's about carrots. The same is true of the Steve Martin song.
My issue is that when one looks back through this thread, while there might be a couple songs that have nothing to do with God or mention anything about God/bible/biblical beliefs/Christ/good news/... when anyone asks for 'Atheist Song' as this thread asks, most songs sing about God. It matters not that the song is making fun of belief in God...God is still IN it.
What I'd like to see is that when HAF members, mostly Atheists, ask for Atheist Songs, they are given true songs about Atheism. I know the word itself implies God, but the belief or definition is that God does not exist so why infuse the fairytale, if you will, into songs. Can the Atheist never be totally separated from the notion of God? Can the free thinker not think of anything other to sing than about God?
Why does the Atheist not sing about what they DO BELIEVE rather than how silly Christians are in what they believe? Why is there not enough passion to sing about what IS proven? Why is it the more intelligent person can only have lyrics like, "The 'he' is always lowercase." when that is not the truth at all!? In the sentence, "He is Atheist." the 'he' is capitalized and it has nothing to do with God.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
Why does the Atheist not sing about what they DO BELIEVE
In its strict definition Atheism is not a belief. It is lack of belief.
You could losely classity any non religious song as an Atheist song, which would be the majority of them.
The purpose of this thread was to highlight songs that express a disbeleif in gods.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
Maybe I used the wrong words. I didn't mean to imply that the songs are ABOUT God, but that the songs (for the most part) cannot be about anything else but the disbelief in God. The Judith song has so much Christianity infused into it, I don't see how you can deny it or fathom how you can say it's about carrots. The same is true of the Steve Martin song.
Or, technically, any song that doesn't mention a god, faith in a god or a religion is also an atheist song. I never said the song "Judith" is about carrots, I said the song Disgustipated was about carrots... because it is.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtMy issue is that when one looks back through this thread, while there might be a couple songs that have nothing to do with God or mention anything about God/bible/biblical beliefs/Christ/good news/... when anyone asks for 'Atheist Song' as this thread asks, most songs sing about God. It matters not that the song is making fun of belief in God...God is still IN it.
What I'd like to see is that when HAF members, mostly Atheists, ask for Atheist Songs, they are given true songs about Atheism. I know the word itself implies God, but the belief or definition is that God does not exist so why infuse the fairytale, if you will, into songs. Can the Atheist never be totally separated from the notion of God? Can the free thinker not think of anything other to sing than about God?
So long as there are theists, atheist will be a useful term. I for one would love to see the day when the word "atheist" is as useless as "aunicornist". But until many religious people stop trying to impose their beliefs on other people, people are going to get pissed off about it and express themselves about it. You seem to be implying that we should just take the unwanted pressures of religious people silently.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtWhy does the Atheist not sing about what they DO BELIEVE rather than how silly Christians are in what they believe? Why is there not enough passion to sing about what IS proven? Why is it the more intelligent person can only have lyrics like, "The 'he' is always lowercase." when that is not the truth at all!? In the sentence, "He is Atheist." the 'he' is capitalized and it has nothing to do with God.
Many atheists do sing about what they believe. Given that singing about a theist does necessarily mean that the person is singin about a god. Do you have the ability to distinguish between a god and a person who believes in a god?
If an admin feels so inclined, please move from post #33 and on into a new thread in this same forum entitled: "Atheist Songs are not All Necessarily About Believing/Disbelieving in God"
EDIT: Done - Tank
Quote from: Stevil on November 14, 2011, 08:05:04 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
Why does the Atheist not sing about what they DO BELIEVE
In its strict definition Atheism is not a belief. It is lack of belief.
You could losely classity any non religious song as an Atheist song, which would be the majority of them.
The purpose of this thread was to highlight songs that express a disbeleif in gods.
My question is: If Atheism is correct, what is the point of "Atheist Song"? Where is the intelligence in singing about the disbelief in the non-existent? Why not better or more intelligently sing about that which IS believed? Is not the consensus of Atheism that Christians are stupid (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8576.msg132881#msg132881)? Why keep 'preaching' stupid ideas as such and not better INFORM on the intelligent ideas instead?
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 08:09:21 PM
You seem to be implying that we should just take the unwanted pressures of religious people silently.
No! Not at all. I support the Atheist to sing about whatever they want to sing about. My question is why do the most part of "Atheist Songs" have the stupid notion of God in them? Why not sing about what makes an Atheist an Atheist. Why sing about fairytales? Why keep harping on the same issue? Wouldn't the more evolved and intelligent person move on from the useless and move toward what is more useful? Is it more useful to simply say, "God does not exist." or is it more useful to give the evidence of that stance?
Edit: Uh...whoops. New thread created while I was posting this.
Post moved.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 08:14:55 PM
My question is: If Atheism is correct, what is the point of "Atheist Song"? Where is the intelligence in singing about the disbelief in the non-existent?
People write songs, often with vocal melodies.
They hence have a need to put words into the songs.
Sometimes they express themselves, e.g their feelings, their own beliefs or disbeliefs.
Singing about a disbelief is a very valid topic, especially when there is a segment of society that wants to recruit people into their beliefs and wants laws reflecting their beliefs. We need to oppose this and we need to show people that there are people out there that lack these beliefs and that it is a valid path to go down.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 08:14:55 PM
My question is: If Atheism is correct, what is the point of "Atheist Song"? Where is the intelligence in singing about the disbelief in the non-existent?
People write songs, often with vocal melodies.
They hence have a need to put words into the songs.
Sometimes they express themselves, e.g their feelings, their own beliefs or disbeliefs.
Singing about a disbelief is a very valid topic, especially when there is a segment of society that wants to recruit people into their beliefs and wants laws reflecting their beliefs. We need to oppose this and we need to show people that there are people out there that lack these beliefs and that it is a valid path to go down.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 08:19:44 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 08:09:21 PM
You seem to be implying that we should just take the unwanted pressures of religious people silently.
No! Not at all. I support the Atheist to sing about whatever they want to sing about. My question is why do the most part of "Atheist Songs" have the stupid notion of God in them? Why not sing about what makes an Atheist an Atheist. Why sing about fairytales? Why keep harping on the same issue?
Mainly because theists keep harping on us about the god thing, keep trying to impose their beliefs in law and various other things. I'd be willing to bet that if those things didn't happen, you'd find far less people singing about it.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtWouldn't the more evolved and intelligent person move on from the useless and move toward what is more useful?
Watch the thinly veiled ad hominems. I think it is quite useful for someone who's angered by theism to sing about how they are angry about theism. Useful in the very least that the person who is angry is expressing that anger.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtIs it more useful to simply say, "God does not exist." or is it more useful to give the evidence of that stance?
This is not the stance of atheism. Honestly, we've been down this road several times with you, what is your hang up with this gross misunderstanding?
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 08:14:55 PM
Quote from: Stevil on November 14, 2011, 08:05:04 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 07:56:14 PM
Why does the Atheist not sing about what they DO BELIEVE
In its strict definition Atheism is not a belief. It is lack of belief.
You could losely classity any non religious song as an Atheist song, which would be the majority of them.
The purpose of this thread was to highlight songs that express a disbeleif in gods.
My question is: If Atheism is correct, what is the point of "Atheist Song"?
What is the point of any song? Music and song are forms of expression, just like posting on internet fora. You might as well ask, "What is the point of an atheist forum?" The answer would vary depending on who answers, just as it would in reply to the above question.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 08:14:55 PMWhere is the intelligence in singing about the disbelief in the non-existent? Why not better or more intelligently sing about that which IS believed?
You're asking for people to have
rational reasons for making (and performing) art? That's a new one on me.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 08:14:55 PMIs not the consensus of Atheism that Christians are stupid (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8576.msg132881#msg132881)?
No it isn't, and I know that you know better than to act as if you are justified in generalizing from one particular statement to include the whole of anything. I'm not sure why you're doing so, but, whatever blows your skirt up...
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg214.imageshack.us%2Fimg214%2F8369%2Fhamsterj.gif&hash=c7176f00b2a7509e3eb9f198fd3dd77763919b73)
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 08:14:55 PMWhy keep 'preaching' stupid ideas as such and not better INFORM on the intelligent ideas instead?
Music and song can merely be for fun. People are not meat robots, and that includes atheists.
Quote from: Stevil on November 14, 2011, 08:43:37 PM
Singing about a disbelief is a very valid topic,
I'm not saying it's not a valid topic/subject of songs. I'm asking why it is that when asked for Atheist Songs, most songs sing about God, granted against God and Christian ideas/beliefs?
It's interesting you'd say I'm veiling ad hominem attacks but the one who posted THAT blatent ad hominem attack is allowed to do so with no word against it because it fits the consensus of the forum. No person called the poster out for making the claim that a gathering of religious people constitutes an overall atmosphere of stupidity.
It's not an attack, by the way. It's an acknowledgment to the fact of this forum. It may not be EVERYONE's point of view, but certainly it is a point of view that is acceptable. So I ask...why is not the more intelligent person singing about more intelligent things rather than harping on the ramblings of the stupid, ignorant, blind?
I'm really not trying to be antagonistic or provoke a "fight". I'm genuinely curious. Why would the Atheist sing about fairytale ideas and not sing MORE about why the Atheist is an Atheist...not why a Christian is stupid or their God stupid/non-existent? The topic was Atheist Songs, not AntiChristian God Songs.
The songs are in English...the majority of the Western world speaks English...Most of the Western world is more free to speak openly about disbelief in god...most of the Western world is surrounded by a culture that pushes Judeo-Christian God belief...therefore, most songs you'll see listed here are going to naturally refer to the christian god in some way.
Cultures which are not free and/or are not highly religious are not going to create an atmosphere in which the non-believers of that region feel much of a need to put their opinion into song...songs are for sharing something you think others need to hear.
Not to mention that a song can't be an "atheist" song unless it has something to do with disbelief in god....to find actual values we have to move outside of atheism and into a wide variety of philosophical stances that various atheists take.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 09:27:16 PM
Quote from: Stevil on November 14, 2011, 08:43:37 PM
Singing about a disbelief is a very valid topic,
I'm not saying it's not a valid topic/subject of songs. I'm asking why it is that when asked for Atheist Songs, most songs sing about God, granted against God and Christian ideas/beliefs?
I answered this a few times already.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtIt's interesting you'd say I'm veiling ad hominem attacks but the one who posted THAT blatent ad hominem attack is allowed to do so with no word against it because it fits the consensus of the forum. No person called the poster out for making the claim that a gathering of religious people constitutes an overall atmosphere of stupidity.
Take it up with THAT person then.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtIt's not an attack, by the way. It's an acknowledgment to the fact of this forum. It may not be EVERYONE's point of view, but certainly it is a point of view that is acceptable. So I ask...why is not the more intelligent person singing about more intelligent things rather than harping on the ramblings of the stupid, ignorant, blind?
Already done been answered. Perhaps you could address the things already said in answer to your question. Also, address the issues you have with people, with the people that expressed them, it's unreasonable to ask someone else to answer for someone who they don't agree with.
Quote from: AnimatedDirtI'm really not trying to be antagonistic or provoke a "fight". I'm genuinely curious. Why would the Atheist sing about fairytale ideas and not sing MORE about why the Atheist is an Atheist...not why a Christian is stupid or their God stupid/non-existent? The topic was Atheist Songs, not AntiChristian God Songs.
If you're genuinely curious, you already have answers to these questions.
Quote from: Whitney on November 14, 2011, 09:39:22 PM
The songs are in English...the majority of the Western world speaks English...Most of the Western world is more free to speak openly about disbelief in god...most of the Western world is surrounded by a culture that pushes Judeo-Christian God belief...therefore, most songs you'll see listed here are going to naturally refer to the christian god in some way.
Understood. So when I ask for Atheist Songs that are void of what Atheism disbelieves in, I get more AntiChristian songs. I understand why, but then it seems to go against the "Happy" in Happy Atheist. The songs seem to convey a sadistic happy rather than a genuinely happy song. What happiness comes from poking fun at the Christian and his/her God/beliefs? To some degree, I can see a sense of "ha-ha!", but after all that, what? Is that the only thing Atheism is about? I don't think so or else there wouldn't be a forum named, "Life as an Atheist" here at HAF where the main point is about life APART from religion.
Quote from: WhitneyNot to mention that a song can't be an "atheist" song unless it has something to do with disbelief in god....to find actual values we have to move outside of atheism and into a wide variety of philosophical stances that various atheists take.
I'm not so sure. However I may not be totally right, I think this may also not be totally correct.
Is Atheism defined as disblief in the Christian God or a disbelief in any god? So far the majority of songs are antiChristian. Not one has anything to do with being antiGSM.
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 09:49:27 PM
Take it up with THAT person then.
Also, address the issues you have with people, with the people that expressed them, it's unreasonable to ask someone else to answer for someone who they don't agree with.
It doesn't bother me at all that some person would think this. I've grown to accept the consensus of this forum in that regard (and life in general). I don't have issue. I simply pointed at the most recent accepted thinking that Christians and/or religious people are overall stupid. No one disagreed, therefore, the consensus is that Atheism and it's followers in disbelief are less stupid, therefore more intelligent. I asked a question based on this intelligence...that's all. I don't need it pointed out that the poster of that comment did anything wrong as that is not the point. The flow of that thread confirms the overall consensus and I simply used that consensus in my question here and referred to that post so that no one think I'm making things up.
No ad hominem attack intended.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 09:58:48 PM
Is Atheism defined as disblief in the Christian God or a disbelief in any god? So far the majority of songs are antiChristian. Not one has anything to do with being antiGSM.
Atheism is defined as not believeing in any god or gods. Other then that, I think Whitney already answered you main question. The reason you end up with a bunch of songs that are determined as "atheist" and point thier finger more directly at christianity, is because most of these songs are written by people whose first or second languege is english, and who most likely have been born in what we consider the western world. Also, christianity has been a defining factor of cultures, laguages in their expressions as well as vocabulary and other areas of life for a better part of some 15 or more centuries (counting from when it became the official religion of the Roman Empire and gained massivly more influnce culturally and later on politically).
We have less beef with other gods, because we know less about them, and we don't encounter people who as agressivly try to sell their "holy of holier"-stories as fact, Truth and reality. Personally I wouldn't mind listening to a Norse priest talking about the deeds of Odin then listen how YHWH is supperior and can do whatever he wants to break the rules he set up and the others have to obey or we get eternally tortured.
I think you get my point. I just find it suprising that you find it suprising that most songs are about christianity...and personally I don't speak other languages then finnish and english, so if someone has sang an "atheist song" in India, china or Japan about their religions, I wouldn't know, since they would most likely use the language they themselves speak, in order to capture the attention of the people around them rather then ours....
And as a side note, when ever someone uses the "if Athesim is correct...."-phrase, I fell a mental kick to the gonads, since it is both uterrly laughable and inherintly dishonest. Atheism makes no claims, so how in the hell could it be "correct", as the phrase tries to imply? *roll eyes* T be honset, it's not that it's somehow "correct", but that all religions are just silly....
I was searching on Atheist Songs...
"Strictly speaking, any song that doesn't mention God or gods is an a-theist song. That said, it is still fun to listen to songs that specifically debunk religion, critique faith, express healthy skepticism, laud doubt, celebrate the natural world, advocate humanist principles, uphold reason, declare love, or in one way or another offer a secular orientation that is moral, libratory, valuable, joyous, and vibrant."
Phil's 65 Greatest Atheist/Agnostic Songs (http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/songs-atheists.html)
This did make me giggle. :)
Since I have too many problems quoting long quotes, I simply will answer History Geek from his above post.
I understand why Christianity is the topic of most "Atheist Songs", that is not what I'm having issue with. I'm wondering why (again not intended to be an ad hominem attack but rather the general consensus) a more intelligent people wouldn't move on from poking fun at something they disagree with and be Happy Atheists? Why not better sing about what makes one truely happy. Is this to say that one is only happy when making fun of the Christian God? I get all the 'this is an English forum...' and that most people are frustrated with Christians and their 'agendas'.
Again I ask; Does this not bother the Atheist that even Atheists seem to inject God in everything? Can Atheism be only about the Christian God? The English speaking "Atheist" then is better categorized not by being Atheist but by being antichristian...as that is the crux of the "Atheist's" music. How am I getting this wrong? Atheist songs would be about gods and not ONE God in particular. Even the web page I refer to above talks about celebrating the natural world, advocate humanist principles, uphold reason, declare love...secular orientation. All these are "Atheist" ideas and most Atheists would regard the majority of these as worthy causes. Yet the cause we see most in Atheist Songs is promoting antichristian ideas and/or promoting scorn at their fellow humans who hold Christian ideas.
I get the Christian God is the biggest "problem" to the Atheist. What I don't get is the Atheist sings predominantly about that which he/she has no belief in and therefore gives the idea more of a platform. Not exactly, but similar to the Streisand Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect).
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 09:58:48 PM
Is Atheism defined as disblief in the Christian God or a disbelief in any god? So far the majority of songs are antiChristian. Not one has anything to do with being antiGSM.
It's disbelief in any god...I thought I already explained why songs that have focus on the Judeo-Chrsitian god would be more prevalent in posts made to this board.
I also think you are putting too much emphasis on the forum title....it's just meant to break a sterotype (the one where some christians try to claim that an atheist is just angry); it's not meant to imply that being an atheist makes one happy or that everything an atheist does or likes will have a happy feel to it.
Here be one for yee, there be no references to god in this music yet Brian Eno considers himself to be an "evangelical atheist" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2shEwFjhzA4).
Brian Eno - Stars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfZxZmbbWI8) or one you may know Brian Eno - An Ending (Ascent) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMXaE9NtQgg).
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 10:59:12 PM
I'm wondering why more intelligent people wouldn't move on from poking fun at something they disagree with and be Happy Atheists? Why not better sing about what makes one truely happy. Is this to say that one is only happy when making fun of the Christian God?
Why should songs be happy joy joy?
I predominately listen to heavy metal. Mostly written in the minor scale and played with energy and aggression.
Some people like the Blues, which is mostly sad songs.
Country is often a sad form of music.
RAP seems to be people that are pissed at the police.
Punk is people that dont want no rulz, anti establishment.
Maybe the Christians have cornered the market on happy songs, "Kubaiya me Lord" anyone? Or my party favourite "He's got the whole world in his hands", always good for a laugh, that one.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 10:59:12 PM
I understand why Christianity is the topic of most "Atheist Songs", that is not what I'm having issue with. I'm wondering why (again not intended to be an ad hominem attack but rather the general consensus) a more intelligent people wouldn't move on from poking fun at something they disagree with and be Happy Atheists? Why not better sing about what makes one truely happy. Is this to say that one is only happy when making fun of the Christian God? I get all the 'this is an English forum...' and that most people are frustrated with Christians and their 'agendas'.
Since atheism is defined as a disbelief in gods, that's all an "atheist song" would be about. I'm sure atheists inclined to sing do so about many things, but those songs aren't "atheist songs" -- they're songs about sunshine on your shoulders making you happy, just as one for instance. And there's nothing wrong with songs puncturing someone or something that irks you -- possibly on daily basis depending on where you live. It's a harmless form of venting.
QuoteAgain I ask; Does this not bother the Atheist that even Atheists seem to inject God in everything? Can Atheism be only about the Christian God? The English speaking "Atheist" then is better categorized not by being Atheist but by being antichristian...as that is the crux of the "Atheist's" music. How am I getting this wrong?
1. assuming that someone who is an atheist is nothing else, and that we discuss nothing but atheism (you are aware you're on an atheist forum, which determines the subject matter you'll be reading here and not the subject matter common to each individual's life, aren't you?)
2. atheism is about disbelief in any god, but the god belief that naturally gets the most flack is the one the individual most often has to deal with (if I were living in Saudi Arabia, I'd be privately singing mocking ditties about Allah).
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 14, 2011, 10:15:06 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 14, 2011, 09:49:27 PM
Take it up with THAT person then.
Also, address the issues you have with people, with the people that expressed them, it's unreasonable to ask someone else to answer for someone who they don't agree with.
It doesn't bother me at all that some person would think this. I've grown to accept the consensus of this forum in that regard (and life in general). I don't have issue. I simply pointed at the most recent accepted thinking that Christians and/or religious people are overall stupid. No one disagreed, therefore, the consensus is that Atheism and it's followers in disbelief are less stupid, therefore more intelligent. I asked a question based on this intelligence...that's all. I don't need it pointed out that the poster of that comment did anything wrong as that is not the point. The flow of that thread confirms the overall consensus and I simply used that consensus in my question here and referred to that post so that no one think I'm making things up.
No ad hominem attack intended.
lol, are you trolling? You seem to be intentionally missing everyone one of my points and seem to be discussing something with someone else.
I don't care for whatever odd "concensus" you think you perceive, I've said on many occasions and many times on these forums that religious people are not necessarily stupid and that atheists are not necessarily smart. So can we move on from whatever it is you're trying to get me to argue for and you actually discuss what I said? That is if you're even game for discussion (which it does not seem that you are given that you keep asking questions that I've already answered).
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.cheezburger.com%2Fcompletestore%2F2011%2F11%2F15%2Fa3c4f3e0-b396-42fe-964d-539b6944c878.png&hash=1d7d4c7fd9ff4c9f8cc5a1b0742e270102120acc)
Quote from: Davin on November 15, 2011, 03:47:59 PM
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.cheezburger.com%2Fcompletestore%2F2011%2F11%2F15%2Fa3c4f3e0-b396-42fe-964d-539b6944c878.png&hash=1d7d4c7fd9ff4c9f8cc5a1b0742e270102120acc)
Oh yes, I'm willing to discuss with you...
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 15, 2011, 07:58:07 PMOh yes, I'm willing to discuss with you...
That is good, I've already made many points that you've yet to address.
Quote from: Davin on November 15, 2011, 08:03:03 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 15, 2011, 07:58:07 PMOh yes, I'm willing to discuss with you...
That is good, I've already made many points that you've yet to address.
Keep waiting.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 15, 2011, 08:08:05 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 15, 2011, 08:03:03 PM
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 15, 2011, 07:58:07 PMOh yes, I'm willing to discuss with you...
That is good, I've already made many points that you've yet to address.
Keep waiting.
Which is it? Are you willing to discuss or do I keep waiting?
Quote from: Davin on November 15, 2011, 08:13:09 PM
Which is it? Are you willing to discuss or do I keep waiting?
Post more cartoons...and keep waiting.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 15, 2011, 08:14:52 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 15, 2011, 08:13:09 PM
Which is it? Are you willing to discuss or do I keep waiting?
Post more cartoons...and keep waiting.
Your persistence on mentioning the cartoon seems to imply that you have a problem with the cartoon, is this correct?
If it is correct, then why not just say that you have a problem with the cartoon and why you have a problem with it? How is one supposed to even consider modifying their behavior if you don't express that you even have a problem?
Quote from: Davin on November 15, 2011, 08:21:45 PM
Your persistence on mentioning the cartoon seems to imply that you have a problem with the cartoon, is this correct?
If it is correct, then why not just say that you have a problem with the cartoon and why you have a problem with it? How is one supposed to even consider modifying their behavior if you don't express that you even have a problem?
You're right. I should. I think I'm getting an answer soon...
BTW, I apologize for making a few condescending comments to you. I shouldn't do that.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 15, 2011, 08:58:55 PM
Quote from: Davin on November 15, 2011, 08:21:45 PM
Your persistence on mentioning the cartoon seems to imply that you have a problem with the cartoon, is this correct?
If it is correct, then why not just say that you have a problem with the cartoon and why you have a problem with it? How is one supposed to even consider modifying their behavior if you don't express that you even have a problem?
You're right. I should. I think I'm getting an answer soon...
What kind of answer and why would you even need to wait for an answer to tell me if you have any problems and what those problems are?
Quote from: AnimatedDirtBTW, I apologize for making a few condescending comments to you. I shouldn't do that.
Oh, they were condescending? I was just very confused, but I'll remember that this kind of behavior in the future might be associated with condescension.
People for a very long time have been believing in god.
It greatly effects their life, present society and history.
It is such a major part of how we got where we are,
but not in the creation sense for me you know.
I often regard religion and their creation as the one thing.
Not always appropriate but in general it works.
God didn't do the killing or ban the contraceptives.
And while people died by the sword, the blade is indifferent.
It seems there's a suggestion atheists are hung up on god,
they somehow can't live without him, keep revisiting him.
Well you know, he keeps visiting us with wars.
I'll be pleased when the final separation is arranged.
God's grip has been slowly slipping for centuries.
But his grip was strong and he still holds on.
I'm amazed by those who see what isn't there.
But I won't ignore what is.
Thanks for that, Magic Pudding. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg717.imageshack.us%2Fimg717%2F2339%2Fbluethumbup.gif&hash=5fe03c6701607da88624dfc89a3acd7df124c467)
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on November 16, 2011, 12:56:51 AM
I'm amazed by those who see what isn't there.
But I won't ignore what is.
I'm amazed by more and more songs/poetry against the make-believe from those of higher understanding that ignore exactly there IS to be sung about...THAT can't be ignored.
:)
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 16, 2011, 05:03:05 AM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on November 16, 2011, 12:56:51 AM
I'm amazed by those who see what isn't there.
But I won't ignore what is.
I'm amazed by more and more songs/poetry against the make-believe from those of higher understanding that ignore exactly there IS to be sung about...THAT can't be ignored.
:)
And a song that isn't about disbelief in gods would be an
a-theist song -- how?
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on November 16, 2011, 12:56:51 AM
People for a very long time have been believing in god.
It greatly effects their life, present society and history.
It is such a major part of how we got where we are,
but not in the creation sense for me you know.
I often regard religion and their creation as the one thing.
Not always appropriate but in general it works.
God didn't do the killing or ban the contraceptives.
And while people died by the sword, the blade is indifferent.
It seems there's a suggestion atheists are hung up on god,
they somehow can't live without him, keep revisiting him.
Well you know, he keeps visiting us with wars.
I'll be pleased when the final separation is arranged.
God's grip has been slowly slipping for centuries.
But his grip was strong and he still holds on.
I'm amazed by those who see what isn't there.
But I won't ignore what is.
Did you write this with a particular tune in mind?
Personally I think this thread really does demonstrate that people will argue vehemently about the most trivial of subjects :D
Quote from: Tank on November 16, 2011, 06:39:10 AM
Did you write this with a particular tune in mind?
No
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 16, 2011, 05:03:05 AM
I'm amazed by more and more songs/poetry against the make-believe from those of higher understanding that ignore exactly there IS to be sung about...THAT can't be ignored.
:)
I don't listen to much mainstream new music because it's crap, is it truly full of Atheists shaking their fists at the sky?
I find it quite hard finding anti god songs. I think if Tank applied his stats skills to the proportion of anti god songs to songs produced by atheists the result would be
fuck all negligible.
Mick Jagger is an atheist apparently (http://brainz.org/50-most-brilliant-atheists-all-time/), but I don't recall him declaring himself as such. Its very hard finding any mention of anti god references in his work, sure he did the satan thing, but that helps sales, anti god didn't.
Richard Clapton is a local guy, respected for his lyrics and a long declared Atheist with a large collection of work. I couldn't recall striking anti god themes in his work, I checked but it's all social issues and relationships, maybe a rare slight reference.
There's a list of supposedly atheists in music here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_music) Nick Cave is on the list but what does he say on the issue "I don't believe in an interventionist god" he seems to believe in a something so not exactly atheist.
Paul Kelly is on the list, probably our greatest lyricist with a huge collection of songs but its just the usual, love and loss the human condition, social injustice. He does have this one though.
QuoteMy name is John Johanna, I am misunderstood
Lately, I have been accused of grievous murder in cold blood
My mission is most righteous, my cause is true and just
The wicked need chastisement, you know it's either them or us
God told me to
I did what I had to do
'Cuz God told me to
All around me, empty chatter, the wise men wring their hands
Meanwhile in broad daylight Satan gathers his unholy bands
The mighty strength of angels carries me on my seeking flight
My anger is a hammer, you know not its power or the hour it strikes
God told me to
I answer not to them or you
'Cuz God told me to
Seven golden candles flaming bring forth the Son of Man
In his mouth a two edged sword, seven stars shining in his right hand
The beast has eyes before him, the beast has eyes behind
Those not with me are against me, they're surely gonna feel my holy fire
God told me to
To thine own self be true
And God told me to
God told me to
I'm just doing what I had to do
'Cuz God told me to
And God told me to
Quote from: Tank on November 16, 2011, 06:42:29 AM
Personally I think this thread really does demonstrate that people will argue vehemently about the most trivial of subjects :D
I'm sure it seems like an argument, but the question on my mind is; why must "Atheist" music be mostly about God? Is there not an abundance of themes other than God or the making fun of or anger toward the supernatural? If the answer is that there is a multitude of songs from Atheism that sing of the natural world...and so on, why is it that on an Atheist forum the predominant post is a song about God? Is it just better to poke fun at someone rather than promote the Atheist views? To me, looking back at the Atheist Songs thread, it seems like it is exactly that.
I say this because of the contrast there is on the opposite side of the coin. A thread amongst Christians asking for good Christian songs is going to have close to 100% of the songs posted about Christianity and the claims therein. There are certainly songs that mention Satan/the Devil/Lucifer and even the nonbeliever, however they are very few in comparison and probably would be even less in mention...that and the mention of a nonbeliever would not be in poking fun at, but rather compassion for.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 16, 2011, 03:43:50 PM
Quote from: Tank on November 16, 2011, 06:42:29 AM
Personally I think this thread really does demonstrate that people will argue vehemently about the most trivial of subjects :D
I'm sure it seems like an argument, but the question on my mind is; why must "Atheist" music be mostly about God? Is there not an abundance of themes other than God or the making fun of or anger toward the supernatural? If the answer is that there is a multitude of songs from Atheism that sing of the natural world...and so on, why is it that on an Atheist forum the predominant post is a song about God? Is it just better to poke fun at someone rather than promote the Atheist views? To me, looking back at the Atheist Songs thread, it seems like it is exactly that.
I say this because of the contrast there is on the opposite side of the coin. A thread amongst Christians asking for good Christian songs is going to have close to 100% of the songs posted about Christianity and the claims therein. There are certainly songs that mention Satan/the Devil/Lucifer and even the nonbeliever, however they are very few in comparison and probably would be even less in mention...that and the mention of a nonbeliever would not be in poking fun at, but rather compassion for.
Perhaps it's the contrast between being the people that emotionally abuse others and those that are being emotionally abused? Even if unintentionally, religious friends, family and society emotionally abuse people that don't believe through derision, insults, condescension, outright hate, guilt trips, and many other methods (pretty much every host on Fox News). Bacause there is so much of that going on in America, how can you even question why there are many atheist songs out there that express opposition to it? It's like asking why so many peace loving hippie songs mention war if they want peace... also adding in the knowledge that America has been in a minimum of four wars since the 90's. It's like asking why a person who is punched by their father on a daily basis talks about it so much. The idea that you can't grasp why an atheist would sing songs about their frustration with people treating atheists poorly is not something I can even fathom anyone would have a problem understanding.
I would love to live in a world where atheists could just sing about things other than how they're frustrated, angry and hurt by religious people, but we're not living in that world where religious people aren't treating atheists that way yet. So long as people are being treated like shit, people are going to be upset about it.
BTW, the singer Maynard James Keenan also has a song that expresses frustration of the Hollywood culture called "Aenema" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnk78TTj8to), a song against war called "Counting Bodies Like Sheep to the Rythm of the War Drums," (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNJYxLa7Ko&feature=fvst) a song taking a dig at alien conspiracists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83R54yAB5Cw), a song angry at people that hate on bands just because they get a record contract (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R890wISHwG4), and songs that dig at many other things. The point is, that even though there may be a few songs dealing with religious folk, most are not. The carrot song Disgustipated is more about making fun of people who are against eating meat than it is about taking a dig at religious people. If you read the lyrics without any preconceptions, I'm sure you'd see that. Also, Maynard has a song that pokes fun at people for taking things at face value without actually digging into what the thing is actually about, it's called Die Eier von Satan (the eggs (balls/testicles) of Satan) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VATb8PwzbDk). It's talked in German mimicking Hitler-esk preaching, with crowd chears and all, but it's a recipe for cookies (hashish cookies, but still cookies). The message is simple: make sure you understand something before you get upset over it, because you might be getting upset over nothing.
I still don't see how a song could be "atheist" without in some way speaking about how one doesn't believe in god.
There are plenty of secular songs about nature and science but I wouldn't call them "atheist" songs.
Atheist is a very narrow description...it's just someone who doesn't believe in god. All the other stuff that an atheist may believe/think etc is in addition to that person being an atheist. Anyone that tries to tie more than absent of god belief to the word atheist is simply wrong.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on November 16, 2011, 03:43:50 PM
I'm sure it seems like an argument, but the question on my mind is; why must "Atheist" music be mostly about God?
Without a god concept atheism wouldn't exist as it is solely a lack of a belief in a god which atheism represents, it has nothing to do with a lack of a belief in the supernatural (even though you do find a tendency for atheists not to believe in the supernatural, but some do). In the western world because of the impact Christianity has had atheism is more often than not in referral to the god Yahweh as it is the most present factor in western society. Like hymns "atheist songs" have an entertainment factor for some of those that associate themselves with the content. For me atheist songs in general are crap just like hymns, there are a few exceptions due to their humor, it may be a bit cheap but I like cheap humor.
I submit a bunch of atheists speaking turned into a song that doesn't mention god: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk
So...I stand a little corrected (by myself) it's possible for a song to be an "atheist song" without mentioning god ;)
I've heard the music documentaries, when gospel singers replaced "my god" with "my baby" they were warned of their wickedness, their move away from god. Every song that does not praise god is an atheist song, or Satan's but I'm OK with sharing. ;)
Quote from: Whitney on November 17, 2011, 12:16:14 AM
I submit a bunch of atheists speaking turned into a song that doesn't mention god: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk
So...I stand a little corrected (by myself) it's possible for a song to be an "atheist song" without mentioning god ;)
I don't think you've really corrected yourself since it's not actually an atheist song, it's a science/nature song which just happens to be sung by atheists. And was that Richard Feynman on the bongos?