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Confessions of an "ex-apathetist"

Started by Attila, October 09, 2011, 12:29:10 PM

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Attila

Hi all,
(An "apathetist" is someone who doesn't give a toss whether there is a god or not.) I'm looking forward to many stimulating discussions. I'm not sure how to introduce myself since I've lived a somewhat unusual life and perhaps have somewhat strange ideas as a consequence. For starters I was born in one country, left it as soon as possible, was then denaturalised by it, acquired two other nationalities and live in neither of those countries. Probably not the most interesting of stories but it's a start.
ciao,
Attila

Siz

How can you be apathetic on this subject? Surely if you think there 'might' be a god you'd do well to hedge your bets to ensure you won't go to Hell?  Or maybe you are not sufficiently convinced there is a god and are not prepared to live your life on that assumption. I don't believe there can be such a thing as an Apathetist. If you really didn't give a toss why are you here to discuss the issue?

Welcome to HAF.

When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Attila

Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 09, 2011, 03:25:53 PM
How can you be apathetic on this subject? Surely if you think there 'might' be a god you'd do well to hedge your bets to ensure you won't go to Hell?  Or maybe you are not sufficiently convinced there is a god and are not prepared to live your life on that assumption. I don't believe there can be such a thing as an Apathetist. If you really didn't give a toss why are you here to discuss the issue?

Welcome to HAF.

Hi Scissorlegs,
No not really. Sounds like Pascal's bet which I always found bogus. Here's how it goes. I don't like Tony Blair. Ok, Tony Blair "does God". So if there's a Tony-Blair-type-God then I go to hell, right? But what's the alternative? Suck up to a Tony-Blair-type-God and have a miserable life where I hate my hypocritical self??  And how do I "win the bet"? Spend eternity (and that's a loooooong time) with Tony Blair?  Nope, I don't think so. The bet is a no-brainer. If hell doesn't have TB then that's better than one with a TB. In any event how could I like a god that wants to be worshipped. I wouldn't tolerate a friend like that let alone a diety.  ;D Any other type god probably doesn't give any more of a toss about what I think than I do about him/her/it/them. So I  guess I feel totally safe and happy and I'm an old geezer, innt.
Ciao,
Attila

Tank

Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 12:29:10 PM
Hi all,
(An "apathetist" is someone who doesn't give a toss whether there is a god or not.) I'm looking forward to many stimulating discussions. I'm not sure how to introduce myself since I've lived a somewhat unusual life and perhaps have somewhat strange ideas as a consequence. For starters I was born in one country, left it as soon as possible, was then denaturalised by it, acquired two other nationalities and live in neither of those countries. Probably not the most interesting of stories but it's a start.
ciao,
Attila
This gives the impression of a bold baby, still in nappies, with a bundle-stick over their shoulder striding down the road! There has got to be a lot of back-story to your nation hopping, do tell.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Siz

OK, fair reasoning, but this doesn't sound like the thoughts of an apathetic mind to me. That's just agnosticism with the assumption that any deity, if it exists, would be non-judgmental (and if I had to be drawn on this issue would take the same view).

I often used to think that if god DID exist, then it was HIS failure that I didn't believe. I could never accept blind faith and refused to be ruled by it.



When one sleeps on the floor one need not worry about falling out of bed - Anton LaVey

The universe is a cold, uncaring void. The key to happiness isn't a search for meaning, it's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually you'll be dead!

Tank

Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 09, 2011, 04:25:50 PM
OK, fair reasoning, but this doesn't sound like the thoughts of an apathetic mind to me. That's just agnosticism with the assumption that any deity, if it exists, would be non-judgmental (and if I had to be drawn on this issue would take the same view).

I often used to think that if god DID exist, then it was HIS failure that I didn't believe. I could never accept blind faith and refused to be ruled by it.
If God does exist He's has an appaling PR dept. Imagine the conversation "Well the last salesman ended up a Zombie with a God complex, shall we make the next one a pedo?"
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Attila

Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 04:19:22 PM

This gives the impression of a bold baby, still in nappies, with a bundle-stick over their shoulder striding down the road! There has got to be a lot of back-story to your nation hopping, do tell.
You're quite correct. There is a lot of back-story. I'd best wait till I can get onto a regular forum. Although it is not my intention to offend anyone who hasn't had a go a me first, some might take offence so I'd prefer to get a feel for this place before getting into these matters.
I did go to the North-West Amazon basin along the border of Colombia and Brazil when I was 21 (I seem to have a thing with borders  :) ) and that changed my view of the world radically. I left  the mother country at 25 so a wee bit oder than a baby in nappies.
ciao,
Attila

Tank

Quote from: Attila on October 09, 2011, 04:45:16 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 04:19:22 PM

This gives the impression of a bold baby, still in nappies, with a bundle-stick over their shoulder striding down the road! There has got to be a lot of back-story to your nation hopping, do tell.
You're quite correct. There is a lot of back-story. I'd best wait till I can get onto a regular forum. Although it is not my intention to offend anyone who hasn't had a go a me first, some might take offence so I'd prefer to get a feel for this place before getting into these matters.
I did go to the North-West Amazon basin along the border of Colombia and Brazil when I was 21 (I seem to have a thing with borders  :) ) and that changed my view of the world radically. I left  the mother country at 25 so a wee bit oder than a baby in nappies.
ciao,
Attila
Now that I do want to read about. I love to travel but have never done enough of it. Do you ever watch a TV programme called 'Tribe' by a chap called Bruce Perrry?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Attila

Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 09, 2011, 04:25:50 PM
OK, fair reasoning, but this doesn't sound like the thoughts of an apathetic mind to me. That's just agnosticism with the assumption that any deity, if it exists, would be non-judgmental (and if I had to be drawn on this issue would take the same view).

I often used to think that if god DID exist, then it was HIS failure that I didn't believe. I could never accept blind faith and refused to be ruled by it.
I'm not sure if the position you describe is meant to be mine but if it is then I've expressed myself badly. I make no assumptions about deities because I have no knowledge or interest in them. If one appeared before me at this moment its mere presence wouldn't change my attitudes about anything one iota. I believe most people would share this view. Suppose you take a born-again "person of faith". Suddenly the deity appears out of a puff of smoke. He/she/it/them addresses the person of faith and says the following,  "I do not hate gays!" What is the response of the person of faith? Well simply put, this isn't god because god hates gays. This thing doesn't hate gays therefore it couldn't be god. This is the issue of calibration. Since no deity of any kind has ever been in contact with any human when someone describes "god's will" or what god likes or hates this is just an aberrant form of the 1st person pronoun. Simply put the phrase "God hates gays" means "I hate gays". I conclude that whether or not there is any type of deity would have no effect on anyone. If one emerged  people would carry on as they were before. This is what I mean.
ciao,
Attila


Attila

Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 04:48:44 PM

Now that I do want to read about. I love to travel but have never done enough of it. Do you ever watch a TV programme called 'Tribe' by a chap called Bruce Perrry?
Surely only 2 r's in Perry.  :D  No, I've not heard of it. Which country does it come from? If you go to google maps you can check out the Papury River which constitutes a tiny part of the border between Colombia and Brazil. There's a tiny little nub of Colombia bounded  by the Vaupés and the Papury rivers that sticks into Brazil. That's where I spent time in 1963 and 1965-66. Sad though, I'm sure all my friends from there have been wiped out by now.
ciao,
Attila

Tank

There you go 10 posts! You are free to roam and not just sit on the border of the forum! And yes Perry does only have 2 r's. However his name is Parry!

It's a BBC TV series, here's a little sample http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V5hUACtoJI

The thing I like about him is that he gets 'stuck in', and does whatever the people he is visiting do such as work, socialising and rituals. He doesn't stand aside, watch and just comment. The telling part is often the tears of the locals when he leaves.

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

DeterminedJuliet

Welcome!

I would consider myself something of an "apatheist", as well. I figure there "might" be a God, but I am pretty certain that there is no Abrahamic God who demands my devotion. So, if the existence of God doesn't require me to actually do anything, I don't really care too much about whether "it" exists.

I think scissorlegs might be a bit confuddled because a lot of people here describe themselves according to Dawkin's scale of belief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Tank

Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on October 09, 2011, 05:16:31 PM
Welcome!

I would consider myself something of an "apatheist", as well. I figure there "might" be a God, but I am pretty certain that there is no Abrahamic God who demands my devotion. So, if the existence of God doesn't require me to actually do anything, I don't really care too much about whether "it" exists.

I think scissorlegs might be a bit confuddled because a lot of people here describe themselves according to Dawkin's scale of belief
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability

We have a thread here Where do you sit on the Dawkins belief scale? which may be of interest.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Attila

Quote from: Tank on October 09, 2011, 05:14:56 PM
There you go 10 posts! You are free to roam and not just sit on the border of the forum! And yes Perry does only have 2 r's. However his name is Parry!

It's a BBC TV series, here's a little sample http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V5hUACtoJI

The thing I like about him is that he gets 'stuck in', and does whatever the people he is visiting do such as work, socialising and rituals. He doesn't stand aside, watch and just comment. The telling part is often the tears of the locals when he leaves.


Thanks Tank. I haven't heard of it before. I left the UK in 1999 (went to China) so I'm not up to date with recent BBC stuff (except for Spooks of course). Thanks for the link and I'll have a look at it.
ciao,
Attila

Tank

Another Spooks fan. I can't wait to see who dies at the end of this last series.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.