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Why Are There Not More Atheists ,???

Started by Godfree, August 31, 2010, 04:57:29 AM

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notself

Set up a Secular Humanist Trust.  http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.ph ... =manifesto
See how that goes.  If you can't beat the government, chip away at it.  Chip, chip, chip, this is how the fundies are getting control of America and it appears they are doing fairly well in NZ/

Godfree

Notself , I can see that other organizations have more success . But I'm an Atheist , and would prefer to beself,,

Further to this tolerance,
Are those suggesting tolerance saying you are happy to leave religion in control??
That you don't want or need change??
Does religion in your view tolerate Atheism???
Is religion tolerant,?
Are you trying to be jesus and turning the other cheek???
Are you a religious spy , and here to discourage Atheism??? :crazy:

philosoraptor

I'm not sure how being intolerant and proselytizing stands to gain atheism any followers, godfree.  There is something to be said about taking the high road.  Just because some religious folk are intolerant assholes, doesn't mean we have to respond in kind.  That has nothing to do with the Christian ideal of turning the other cheek, and everything to do with being a decent and respectful human being.  Religion doesn't have a monopoly on morality and goodness.  If you don't like the religious Golden Rule, look at it from a philosophical viewpoint instead.  Kant, Sartre, and many others have essentially said that we should not do those things that we do not want others doing to us.  If you don't want the religious pushing their views on you, than you have no business pushing atheism on them.  You may not like or agree with what they have to say, but they are still entitled to their opinions, however irrational they may be.  If anything, I think it sheds a much more positive light on those atheists who are tolerant of the religious than those who would push atheism on those who aren't interested.
"Come ride with me through the veins of history,
I'll show you how god falls asleep on the job.
And how can we win when fools can be kings?
Don't waste your time or time will waste you."
-Muse

The Magic Pudding

Quote from: "philosoraptor"If you don't want the religious pushing their views on you, than you have no business pushing atheism on them.  You may not like or agree with what they have to say, but they are still entitled to their opinions, however irrational they may be.  If anything, I think it sheds a much more positive light on those atheists who are tolerant of the religious than those who would push atheism on those who aren't interested.
I don't mind theists sharing their opinions so much as the actions they feel obliged to take because of them.
Do they have to be listed again? birth control, weird middle eastern politics, suppression of science and on and on and on.

Quote from: "Godfree"Notself , I can see that other organizations have more success . But I'm an Atheist , and would prefer to beself
Have you're islands stopped shaking yet?

notself

Quote from: "Godfree"Notself , I can see that other organizations have more success . But I'm an Atheist , and would prefer to beself,,Secular Humanism is agnostic/atheist without shouting about it.  I don't think most government bureaucrats would know it was atheist.  Establish the trust now and re brand it later.

Further to this tolerance,
Are those suggesting tolerance saying you are happy to leave religion in control??  It scares the hell out of me that the fundamentalists are very close to total control of the government.
That you don't want or need change?? I thought Obama was the change but he is doing nothing to keep the government secular.
Does religion in your view tolerate Atheism???Religion says it tolerates non believers but the religious are extremely suspicious and disapproving of atheists.
Is religion tolerant,?They act tolerant and some may be but fundamentalists feel threatened by atheists and some would imprison atheist for their lack of belief.
Are you trying to be jesus and turning the other cheek???I am not turning the other cheek.  I am ducking my head so I don't get socially assasinated.
Are you a religious spy , and here to discourage Atheism??? :crazy:
I am a non-religious spy wandering around my family and friends trying to put a beam of doubt into their belifs.

Whitney

Asking someone if they are a religious spy, lol...seriously?

Asmodean

Quote from: "Whitney"Asking someone if they are a religious spy, :pop:

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Godfree

The South Island earthquake , centered near Christchurch , has stopped apart from small after shocks , the first big one was the only one that did much damage.
Whitney ,
While you may laugh , I wouldn't be at all surprised to find someone here pretending to be an Atheist just to keep an eye on us .
Here in NZ we have a green party , usually left of center , religion is right of center,
our Green party is a bunch of christians , how did that happen , do we have a left anymore?
I joined a Skeptics group , only to find they were a bunch of agnostics , who were more suspicious of my reasoning for being Atheist than they were about religion.
And for philosopher , I was not suggesting we push Atheism on religion ,
I'm suggesting we form our own party and replace religion .
We would need to create an alternative , ie political party , social groups , philosophy.
We need to reinvent society and demote religion , tax it and take away any special
laws that were made for religion , call it a business , and make it comply. or stop taking money for what they do.

Godfree

I had a skeptics meeting two nights ago . There was a Bahi there and he insisted that christians and muslims are all looking at the same god .?? ,I challenged his assumption but seemed to get nowhere . Then we see in the news the next day , the burning of the koran , a American priest is going to burn 200 korans , and the billboards outside his church say ,Islam is the devil , that certainly doesn't sound like they are looking at the same god , but it does sound like the religious intolerance of each other that I have seen from most religious groups.
The burning of books is  older than the bible , they did it to the library of Alexandria , and history has many examples of the ignorant trying to destroy knowledge that challenges or disagrees with what they believe, I think ideas can't be burnt , they need to be replaced with better ideas . The challenge is to present these ideas in such a way as to appeal to those looking for the impossible , god , heaven , eternal life .
Whatever you offer them will seem like second place , when they are so used to believing in
things that simply are too good to be true.

Ã¥scertain

Quote from: "Godfree"The science has been there to prove evolution , the age of the earth etc for years now .
And yet places like America are still entrenched in the dark ages of superstition and religion.
The world is still in most parts lost in illusion , floundering in the dark.
How can this be ,?? is religion so big and powerful we can't stop it,??
Are we the Atheists just not stepping up to the plate and letting rip,??
What do we have to do to get through to these people.?
Do we need to form our own political party and lobby to have the laws changed,?
Web sites like this one are certainly a step in the right direction.
I have been doing this Atheist blog thing for about 6 years and have found little support or agreement on any of the sites. I tried expressing my Atheism on the dating sites , and it didn't get me many dates. Atheists are still seen by most societies as extremists,
and are not really welcomed by main stream society.
What can we do to change this.???

Why? Beacause in places like America the social system is set up to perpetuate ignorance and division. This is so the 'PEOPLE' will be easier to control. If you are the leader of a country and everyone is on thier toes - it makes it more difficult for you to do what you please. Religion plays an important role is keeping people blindly distracted.
What can one do the change this? Be firm in your convictions. God or god(s) are non-existent and the story tells iself, I think it is a matter of time before people begin to see. All it takes is that first question most believers won't ask: What IF im wrong?

Thumpalumpacus

Quote from: "Godfree"Whitney ,, dramatic , provocative , challenging ,
I would be a fairly boring poster without trying to stimulate debate .
I applied to be a charitable trust here in NZ based on Atheist , the Crown Law Office told me "unlawful" there are zero Atheist charitable trusts in NZ.
But any fundamentalist christian with his own whacky  interpretation of the bible can have a charitable trust , so can a muslim , a buddha , or any other crazy religion , but me , he who was born and raised in this country , can't!!!
Because I'm an Atheist , seems like blatant discrimination to me , or am I being dramatic again???
We are supposed to be a fifty fifty mix here in NZ , Atheists have no charitable trusts , no political parties , and yet we have had plenty of religion based political parties.
Basically there is no support for Atheism , it is discouraged at almost every level , even in NZ,and yet we are supposed to have half the country who don't believe in god.
Seems to me we are being deceived , this is not a secular democracy...

Being denied a trust is a far cry from living in a dictatorship.  Not that it's fair that you should be so denied, but Whitney's right: you're being melodramatic.  If you want a dictatorship, move to Central Asia or Rwanda.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

epepke

Quote from: "Ã¥scertain"Why? Beacause in places like America the social system is set up to perpetuate ignorance and division.

People are already too stupid to require social engineering.

Whitney

Quote from: "Godfree"I had a skeptics meeting two nights ago . There was a Bahi there and he insisted that christians and muslims are all looking at the same god .?? ,I challenged his assumption but seemed to get nowhere .

It's called Pluralism...pluralists believe that all religions are paths people follow in an attempt to know god.  Most Christians and Muslims aren't Pluralists...they are Exclusivist; that's why fundies act as they do.

darkcyd

Quote from: "Thumpalumpacus"
Quote from: "Godfree"Whitney ,, dramatic , provocative , challenging ,
I would be a fairly boring poster without trying to stimulate debate .
I applied to be a charitable trust here in NZ based on Atheist , the Crown Law Office told me "unlawful" there are zero Atheist charitable trusts in NZ.
But any fundamentalist christian with his own whacky  interpretation of the bible can have a charitable trust , so can a muslim , a buddha , or any other crazy religion , but me , he who was born and raised in this country , can't!!!
Because I'm an Atheist , seems like blatant discrimination to me , or am I being dramatic again???
We are supposed to be a fifty fifty mix here in NZ , Atheists have no charitable trusts , no political parties , and yet we have had plenty of religion based political parties.
Basically there is no support for Atheism , it is discouraged at almost every level , even in NZ,and yet we are supposed to have half the country who don't believe in god.
Seems to me we are being deceived , this is not a secular democracy...

Being denied a trust is a far cry from living in a dictatorship.  Not that it's fair that you should be so denied, but Whitney's right: you're being melodramatic.  If you want a dictatorship, move to Central Asia or Rwanda.

In order to qualify as a charitable trust for taxation purposes the objectives of the trust must fall within the following:

    * The relief of poverty
    * The advancement of education
    * The advancement of religion
    * Any other purpose beneficial to the community

That is from NZ gov website. If they told you differently, you should read the rules and not let others interpret them for you :P.

Godfree

Yes the "advancement of education" and "of benefit to the community"
My Atheist aims were said to not qualify for either of these.
I tried to explain to the woman on the phone , that science is what an Atheist uses to explain the world . So how could this not be seen as educational???
And quite clearly this government does not see Atheism as being of benefit to the community .
I certainly don't see equality there . Very one sided view of whats good for the community.
Filling our childrens heads with religious nonsense is good for the community , but science and Atheism aren't???