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The Deep State

Started by Dave, August 20, 2018, 03:21:15 AM

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Dave

QuoteThe Deep State

Donald Trump and his supporters have spoken of a Deep State in America, undermining his presidency from within - a shadowy coalition of security and intelligence services, hidden from plain sight, bent on sabotaging an elected government. The term has caught on, becoming part of political folklore. But what does the idea of a Deep State really mean - where did it come from, what would it consist of, who uses it and for what political purpose? I

So starts the online intro to BBC's programme yesterday. I listened to it with fascination - it's one of the better conspiracy theories, after the Illuminati, the New World Order . . .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06hnbr4

But what surprised me most was the utter conviction, amongst Trump supporters, that this was a liveral/left conspiracy. That, sort if, turned round my original thinking - that such conspiracies were conservative right territory - right round. Then I thought, "Does it have to be specific to any political wing? Why not just any old power seekers?" Of course, Obama is the current main man gere.

The scenario where, in America, the multitude of security services run things behind the political stage, well, them or a bunch of right wing armed forces chiefs, is common in the sci-fi and political fiction genres.

But! Is it fiction or fact? Judging by the sackings etc in some American security services in the last year, at least the "surface" ones, it seems not that deep. I emphasise "seems". Every governing organisation almost certainly has its "deep cliques", internal groups manouvering for extra power and authority, or just trying to change things without going through democratic procedures. Though the name is modernish "cabinet" rule was one way of confining authority to an elite few - it became a "proto-deep state" that has migrated into local government - no more "town councils", open democratic decision  making,  in most places.

This sort of theory predates Trump but it is not at all surprising, to me, that he has grabbed it with both hands in his paranoia. But, "the laddie doth protest too much, methinks" comes to mind. Rhetoric may, er, trump logic in the mind of certain kinds of people, perhaps mainly those with inherent paranoid tendencies - not the kind best suited to run a nation, but so often in that position.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Tank

Many years ago Dennis Healy (a UK politician) gave a very interesting and revealing interview. He basically outed the Bilderberg Group with the words "Do you really think politicians run the world?"
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

#3
Quote from: Tank on August 20, 2018, 10:49:11 AM
Many years ago Dennis Healy (a UK politician) gave a very interesting and revealing interview. He basically outed the Bilderberg Group with the words "Do you really think politicians run the world?"
I always thought the accountants, financiers, bankers and global industrialists controlled everything anyway - well, perhaps "control" is debatable after 2008 . . .
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

Quote from: Tank on August 20, 2018, 10:51:17 AM
They even have their own website Bilderberg Meetings.

Actually just knowing thst Bilderberg happens, even if they do not publish their debates, lessens their "conspiracy factor" I think. Yes, these are people in positions of power and invpfluence, but I could feel more concerned about those bunches of people we know nothing about working, on narrow projects with wide ramifications, in very private back rooms.

But, surely, such has happened since Og and Ug got together in a dark corner of the cave to whisper about how to control the clan. We are constrained, if not controlled, in life by decisions made by others, not all of them democratically elected. Not all of those constraints are entirely for our good, some are for profit - I am now constrained to buy four-packs of my usual tissues instead of two-packs if I want to keep to the same quality. That I usually bought 2 two-packs at a time (I use them by the van-load because of my rhinitis) has nothing to do with it!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

No one

Tank:
"Do you really think politicians run the world?"


Uh.... No. It's a proven fact that the lizard people do!

Dave

Quote from: No one on August 20, 2018, 09:16:01 PM
Tank:
"Do you really think politicians run the world?"


Uh.... No. It's a proven fact that the lizard people do!

Oh, yes, David Icke has the right if it, it's all down to those reptillians!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74