Can the US Army embrace atheists?

[Xiilent]

I'm really glad to see this topic in the forum. I was planning on creating a post similar to this, but I'll just go off of this since its pretty much the same. I myself plan on going into the U.S. military (first choice is U.S. Marine Corps, 2nd is Army) and I plan to go infantry. I have been had the idea of going infantry since I was 5 from my best friends dad who was in the Army. He'd tell me about all these stories about how he killed people in Desert Shield, and it was just so interesting. It sounds extremely sadistic and insane unless you get to know me in real life, but I want to kill people for my country. I don't even know if its for my own country though. I was on youtube listening to Richard Dawkins talking, and he talked about a quote from George W. Bush where he said something roughly like "I do not believe atheists should be citizens or patriots." Like... honestly, that is completely absurd. I want to fight for this country, and I am not even supported by the people I'm going to fight for? Howard Bloom (i don't know if anyone knows him because i don't know how popular he is) mentioned a poll that said that homosexuality was more accepted than atheism. That is completely just... I can't believe it. (Sorry if this post makes me sounds like I am a serial killer, I'd love to give more detail to anyone who asks, but I really do try to be a good person based on the natural good and will of the population)

[Twentythree]

I would like more detail. Why would you "want" to kill anyone.

[Xiilent]

Well... have you ever seen jarhead, the scene where they are watching the film and it gets them excited to see the enemy getting taken out by the americans? Its kind of that way. Like I said, its been in put in my head since I was 5. As well, throughout high school I've had a LOT of experience with military life and mentality. Over the past summer, I went to Parris Island Marine Corps Depot in South Carolina for a "boot camp orientation" where they as well drill into your head that (as a marine) you are taught and "demanded of two things, kill and discipline". The more I think about it harder, the harder it gets in to express it in words. My mentality as an atheist is I try to accept and do "natural" things, which I understand killing is a natural thing (animals do it, and humans obviously have done it throughout history). But I can understand and it makes me second guess myself why I would want to kill. Maybe its the fact that "someone has to do it." I'm not sure. All i know is that video games are not the reason why I want to join the military and go infantry xD if you could ask more specific questions that might be a little easier

[Xiilent]

Also, going off of the early experience to military thoughts, I can't see myself doing any other job. My main reason to go to college is to become an officer. I can't think of any other jobs I'd be guarenteed and able to do. I love psychology and studying religion and the lack of them (to disprove them) but I don't really know the job options with that that either don't require a doctorates or aren't extremely hard to get

[Whitney]

If I were you I'd go for a doctorate and become a therapist that specializes in recovering from religion and you could work with behavioral addictions as well to bring in the money.  Once you get the degree you could work for yourself.

[Xiilent]

I would love to work for myself (and make a LOT of money). Another option i have is enlist in the navy and become a nuclear technician (the hardest job to get in the navy academic wise), get out and become a civilian nuke tech (a lot of money in that), but my parents don't want me to enlist. Plus i want to do a job *I* want to do, and nuke tech doesn't sound that fun. I would love to be a therapist but like i said, I don't have the time or money to get a doctorate. But that does sound like an amazing idea to help people "recover from religion" xD It might sound stupid to a theist but i know personally that it is hard to be an atheist in modern america. (if i pursued that career, i'd have to tell my parents i'm atheist though. i still havent told them that). But to get back on topic, it is still sickening to think that American military is so tied to religion. Maybe I might have a way to change that. The OP had an article from a Sergeant (enlisted), but officers have more "power." So who knows, maybe i might be able to do a little change for the military ideals. Wouldn't that be awesome? xD

[Sweetdeath]

If I were you I'd go for a doctorate and become a therapist that specializes in recovering from religion and you could work with behavioral addictions as well to bring in the money.  Once you get the degree you could work for yourself.

That sounds like a good career move.

[ThinkAnarchy]

Also, going off of the early experience to military thoughts, I can't see myself doing any other job. My main reason to go to college is to become an officer. I can't think of any other jobs I'd be guarenteed and able to do. I love psychology and studying religion and the lack of them (to disprove them) but I don't really know the job options with that that either don't require a doctorates or aren't extremely hard to get

This mentality is very scary. I understand the want to kill a living thing. It's actually quit natural. However, why kill indiscriminately? Self defense killings, vengeance killings, and legitimate enemy kills are one thing. From what you describe, you simply want to partake in state sponsored murder. I honestly don't care how this comes off, but I think your reasons for joining are despicable. You seem to not care who they may order you to kill, you will get pleasure out of the act regardless...

[Xiilent]

This mentality is very scary. I understand the want to kill a living thing. It's actually quit natural. However, why kill indiscriminately? Self defense killings, vengeance killings, and legitimate enemy kills are one thing. From what you describe, you simply want to partake in state sponsored murder. I honestly don't care how this comes off, but I think your reasons for joining are despicable. You seem to not care who they may order you to kill, you will get pleasure out of the act regardless...

Nonono. I didn't mean it to sound like that. If by "who they may order you to kill" you mean the "enemy", well then yes. Someone who threatens my life, subsequently threatens my family, my loved ones, even you. (Hopefully that makes sense). But I would never take pleasure in killing lets say, a civilian of the opposing country. Hopefully that helps with the understanding.

[Xiilent]

And this isn't a dominating feeling I have. xD trust me. It's not something I constantly talk about. I know you/everyone else is probably thinking I'm crazy. The best way I can say you'd understand is if you watch the movie Jarhead.

[ThinkAnarchy]

And this isn't a dominating feeling I have. xD trust me. It's not something I constantly talk about. I know you/everyone else is probably thinking I'm crazy. The best way I can say you'd understand is if you watch the movie Jarhead.

It's not my type of movie, but I know the feeling. Most of the people here think I'm crazy as well.

[Ihateyoumike]

What worries me about what I've read from you Xiilent is that your longing to kill may not be satiated even if you do go to war. Could be scary when you get back and are no longer afforded the option of state sponsored murder.

[Firebird]

I wish that was practical. But let's say we take down our army. What happens next? China flexes its muscles and starts forcing itself on other countries in the Asia-Pacific region. Russia probably invades some countries in its old soviet bloc. We do still need an army in some shape or form to defend ourselves and other democratic countries around the world.
That being said, our army has been exploited, sadly, and it and the CIA have done some horrible things at times. And while I'm not against every war, I am against most wars that we have fought, particularly Iraq. Our army should be used wisely and sparingly, and it has not always been the case.

I don't think the U.S. should be policing the world. I'm all for giving the nations we have been protecting time to build up their own military defenses before pulling out. The reason the rest of the world hates the U.S. is precisely due to our interventionism. We still need an army or militia, but we don't need a standing army in peace times. Unfortunately this country has averaged a major war every 20 years since it's founding and peace isn't something those with power are good at.

They don't need nearly a thousand bases around the world to protect American soil.

The only part of your statement I have a problem with is the view we need to protect the rest of the world. I disagree.

While I don't agree with everything you say, we're in agreement on a lot of points here. We do need to get rid of a lot of the bases we have around the world (why do we need 80,000 soldiers in Germany, for example?). I do think we need to maintain a standing army at all times, but we could easily cut back our military and still be well defended.

As far as defending the rest of the world, I do wish Europe and other countries would pick up some of the slack (with all due respect to the Europeans on this board). I was particularly happy that France and the UK took the lead in the Libya operation.

And with Iran, I think Israel or some country will do an airstrike on their nuclear facilities, but that does not necessarily mean war. Israel did the same thing in Iraq in '81, Syria in '07, and we bombed Iraq military facilities and Bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan during the Clinton years, and none of those led to immediate war. There is, unfortunately, a good risk that Hezbollah would attack Israel as Iran's proxy if Israel bombs their facilities. But I do not think the US will be invading Iran. The most they'll do is support the Israelis in an airstrike. Obama's not stupid

[Tom62]

We do need to get rid of a lot of the bases we have around the world (why do we need 80,000 soldiers in Germany, for example?).

Here in Germany several bases were closed, because they needed fresh Cannon-fodder for Iraq. The American soldiers were not particularly happy with that and neither the cities where these bases were located. Thousands of soldiers means a lot for the local economy.

As far as defending the rest of the world, I do wish Europe and other countries would pick up some of the slack (with all due respect to the Europeans on this board). I was particularly happy that France and the UK took the lead in the Libya operation.

I'm not so happy with that, because that meant that we stuck our hypocritical noses in the local Libyan political affairs. Basically we changed a protest to an armed conflict/civil war. We got away with that, because China and Russia didn't protest. Guess why the US and Europe don't do the same for the protesters in Syria, who are fighting against a far more "evil" regime?

And with Iran, I think Israel or some country will do an airstrike on their nuclear facilities, but that does not necessarily mean war.

I define that as an act of war. As retaliation, Iran has all the justifications to bomb the nuclear facilities of Israel.

There is, unfortunately, a good risk that Hezbollah would attack Israel as Iran's proxy if Israel bombs their facilities.

Why would that be unfortunate? People are fed up with Israel playing the victim card all the time.

But I do not think the US will be invading Iran. The most they'll do is support the Israelis in an airstrike. Obama's not stupid

The US can probably not afford another war, but I'm pretty sure that they would love to start another invasion.

[Firebird]

There is, unfortunately, a good risk that Hezbollah would attack Israel as Iran's proxy if Israel bombs their facilities.

Why would that be unfortunate? People are fed up with Israel playing the victim card all the time.

As much as I disagree with a lot of Israel's actions, implying that they somehow deserve to be attacked by Hezbollah is pretty low. Not to mention that another war with Hezbollah would be disastrous for everyone, no matter your viewpoint