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Meaning of "Spiritual but Not Religious"

Started by Anne D., January 29, 2012, 03:33:20 PM

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Ali

I kind of believe in ghosts (my childhood home seemed to have one lurking about) but I assume that the explanation behind ghosts and ghost sightings is not "supernatural" but rather has a scientific explanation that we just don't really understand yet.  Hence, an atheist who believes in ghosts. 

pytheas

Quote from: Twentythree on January 30, 2012, 10:27:34 PM
The allowance of any supernatural cause or effect in the natural world means that..
1) you suppose more than you know, the definition of a fool, a mental retard in some minute quarter of behaviours
2) you discredit to a generalised contempt of nature, your body , this life and the emancipation towards your rightful position among your fellow beings, the definition of an egopathic dissocial and heavily perplexed asshole
3) you are a plain nutter, no further specifications required
"Not what we have But what we enjoy, constitutes our abundance."
"Freedom is the greatest fruit of self-sufficiency"
"Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little."
by EPICURUS 4th century BCE

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Ali on January 31, 2012, 02:22:15 PM
I kind of believe in ghosts (my childhood home seemed to have one lurking about) but I assume that the explanation behind ghosts and ghost sightings is not "supernatural" but rather has a scientific explanation that we just don't really understand yet.  Hence, an atheist who believes in ghosts. 

I've seen things twice that answer the classic description of ghosts, and it pretty much convinced me of their unreality (sort of "seeing is disbelieving"), the whole business just seemed so silly.  So I'm thinking that, yes, there's some natural, scientific explanation that we don't understand yet for what does seem to be a very common human experience.  Or even common non-human experience, given stories of other animals reacting to "ghosts".
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Ali

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on January 31, 2012, 03:44:31 PM
Quote from: Ali on January 31, 2012, 02:22:15 PM
I kind of believe in ghosts (my childhood home seemed to have one lurking about) but I assume that the explanation behind ghosts and ghost sightings is not "supernatural" but rather has a scientific explanation that we just don't really understand yet.  Hence, an atheist who believes in ghosts. 

I've seen things twice that answer the classic description of ghosts, and it pretty much convinced me of their unreality (sort of "seeing is disbelieving"), the whole business just seemed so silly.  So I'm thinking that, yes, there's some natural, scientific explanation that we don't understand yet for what does seem to be a very common human experience.  Or even common non-human experience, given stories of other animals reacting to "ghosts".

Yes.  I guess I should clarify that I believe that the phenomenon that people call "ghosts" actually sometimes happens.  I don't think it's "spirits of the dead" or anything.  I'm sure there is a natural explanation for why people have that experience.

Twentythree

Quote from: pytheas on January 31, 2012, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: Twentythree on January 30, 2012, 10:27:34 PM
The allowance of any supernatural cause or effect in the natural world means that..
1) you suppose more than you know, the definition of a fool, a mental retard in some minute quarter of behaviours
2) you discredit to a generalised contempt of nature, your body , this life and the emancipation towards your rightful position among your fellow beings, the definition of an egopathic dissocial and heavily perplexed asshole
3) you are a plain nutter, no further specifications required

Wow, this seems unnecessarily hostile for what my post was about. Especially referring to me as "fool", "mental retard" and "heavily perplexed asshole"

#1 I don't suppose more than I know, I know that a true naturalist does not concede to explaining any natural phenomena with the supernatural.

Supernatural forces, if they exist, cannot be observed, measured, or recorded by the procedures of science - that's simply what the word "supernatural" means. There can be no limit to the kinds and shapes of supernatural forces and forms the human mind is capable of conjuring up from "nowhere." Scientists therefore have no alternative but to ignore "claims" of the existence of supernatural forces and causes. This exclusion is a basic position that must be stoutly adhered to by scientists or their entire system of processing information will collapse. To put it another way, if science must include a supernatural realm, it will be forced into a game where there are no rules. Without rules, no scientific observation, explanation, or prediction can enjoy a high probability of being a correct picture of the real world.[1]

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/ntse.html

#2 I don't think I am egopathic. I understand that my place in the larger continuum of life and geological time is ridiculously small. Any opinions I have will be extremely short lived and what small amount of knowledge I am able to pass on to the next generation will be my only lasting legacy and that will probably only retain any relevance for perhaps a generation or two. So maybe denial of egopathy is a condition of egopathy but based on the definitions I found I'm not sure if it applies to me.

#3 I am not a plain nutter I am a nutter butter and for those of us who know anything about sweet treats...they are quite good.


Sweetdeath

Those cookies are yummy!!

My best friend of over ten years lives in her grandma's house. After her grandma died, faucets turn themselves on, and you can hear voices in the bathroom.
We havent SEEN anything, but man that is I creepy! I don't know HOW to explain it. We're BOTH atheists btw. :)
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

philosoraptor

Count me also in the group of atheists who've had weird, seemingly supernatural experiences before-a whole bunch of them, even.  For which I'm sure there's some kind of explanation, though I have yet to figure it out.  It's also possible that I'm an asshole and a nutter though, so take that with a grain of salt, I guess.
"Come ride with me through the veins of history,
I'll show you how god falls asleep on the job.
And how can we win when fools can be kings?
Don't waste your time or time will waste you."
-Muse

Amicale

Quote from: philosoraptor on January 31, 2012, 06:46:16 PM
Count me also in the group of atheists who've had weird, seemingly supernatural experiences before-a whole bunch of them, even.  For which I'm sure there's some kind of explanation, though I have yet to figure it out.  It's also possible that I'm an asshole and a nutter though, so take that with a grain of salt, I guess.

:D Hey, no need to be an asshole in order to be a nutter, trust me on that one. *grin*

I don't think I've had genuinely verifiable supernatural experiences (ie, someone else in the same room would notice it too), but I've spoken with friends and family members who certainly HAVE seen and heard very odd things that just shouldn't have been there. My general theory (I'm sure I'm probably wrong) goes something like this. If people see/hear/sense the 'ghosts' or 'spirits' of loved ones, especially recently after a loved one's death, it's probably just our mind working through some very strong grief as we miss them, so we "see them everywhere". If on the other hand people see/hear/sense ghosts or spirits they have no knowledge of... well... there's a scientific explanation for it that we just don't understand yet. Maybe something along the lines of 'energy is neither creater nor destroyed' -- in other words, maybe in some sense, it CAN stick around in some way, who knows. *shrug*

Some of the people I know who call themselves 'spiritual' call themselves that because they're solely interested in what we'd call the paranormal. I wouldn't personally get too involved in 'paranormal' studies myself. Either the energy in our body does, or doesn't, somehow stick around when we die. If it does, well -- that may be the beginnings of some scientific idea of why some people sense 'spirits/ghosts'. If it doesn't, then we've just got damned good imaginations. :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Ali

I tend to think of it as some sort of "stuck" energy too.  Or when I'm feeling really out there, I think about string theory, imagining that all moments are happening all at once in slightly different dimensions - what if sometimes those dimensions get sort of blurred somehow, like you are experiencing something that actually happened in a different moment of time.  Okay, now I really sound like a nutter.  LOL 

Anne D.

Twenty-three, maybe I'm totally misreading, but I thought Pytheas was agreeing with you and that the three things described those who did believe in the supernatural.




The Magic Pudding

Quote from: Twentythree on January 31, 2012, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: pytheas on January 31, 2012, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: Twentythree on January 30, 2012, 10:27:34 PM
The allowance of any supernatural cause or effect in the natural world means that..
1) you suppose more than you know, the definition of a fool, a mental retard in some minute quarter of behaviours
2) you discredit to a generalised contempt of nature, your body , this life and the emancipation towards your rightful position among your fellow beings, the definition of an egopathic dissocial and heavily perplexed asshole
3) you are a plain nutter, no further specifications required

Wow, this seems unnecessarily hostile for what my post was about. Especially referring to me as "fool", "mental retard" and "heavily perplexed asshole"

You don't really think Pytheas was calling you a fool etc do you?
I thought it was aimed at people in general.

Ali

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on February 01, 2012, 12:52:31 AM
Quote from: Twentythree on January 31, 2012, 05:53:00 PM
Quote from: pytheas on January 31, 2012, 03:32:02 PM
Quote from: Twentythree on January 30, 2012, 10:27:34 PM
The allowance of any supernatural cause or effect in the natural world means that..
1) you suppose more than you know, the definition of a fool, a mental retard in some minute quarter of behaviours
2) you discredit to a generalised contempt of nature, your body , this life and the emancipation towards your rightful position among your fellow beings, the definition of an egopathic dissocial and heavily perplexed asshole
3) you are a plain nutter, no further specifications required

Wow, this seems unnecessarily hostile for what my post was about. Especially referring to me as "fool", "mental retard" and "heavily perplexed asshole"

You don't really think Pytheas was calling you a fool etc do you?
I thought it was aimed at people in general.

I read it that way (that Pytheas was basically calling Twentythree a "retard") the first time I read it.  And thought "geez, hostile."  But in re-reading it, I agree with you and Anne D, I think Pytheas was saying that people who believe in the supernatural are 1, 2, & 3.

Melmoth

Quote from: Anne D.In short, I usually find this phrase really annoying. That said, I realize it might have a different meaning to other people. What do you hear when a person uses this phrase to describe himself?

I take it to mean that while they don't believe in god, gods, pixies, unicorns, vampires or fairies, they aren't particularly fond of scientific rationalism either. Either they don't think it can account for everything, or they just find it aesthetically unpleasing. So, assuming that the only alternative to Newtonian thinking is a kind of vague, awkward pseudo-religiousness, they pin that label to themselves for want of anything better. Watch their expressions as they say it - it even makes them uncomfortable.
"That life has no meaning is a reason to live - moreover, the only one." - Emil Cioran.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Twentythree on January 31, 2012, 05:53:00 PM
#3 I am not a plain nutter I am a nutter butter and for those of us who know anything about sweet treats...they are quite good.



One of civilization's better inventions.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

fester30

The Air Force has a different way to define spiritual.  They acknowledge that in some cases spiritual health comes from a higher power, however, this is not necessary.  Spiritual health, by the Air Force definition, is about having an inner drive, a strong sense of self, or whatever it is that is intangible that drives an individual.  While I still sort of smile sideways at this, I understand what someone was trying to do with spiritual health to keep it as a viable survey topic.