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Meaning of "Spiritual but Not Religious"

Started by Anne D., January 29, 2012, 03:33:20 PM

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Sweetdeath

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 30, 2012, 04:36:10 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 30, 2012, 04:25:20 AM
My girlfriend is guilty of saying that phrase. I never know how to respond to it. She says she doesn't believe in god, but keeps her mind open to super natural things as well. I'm just like "ok, as long as church and prayer aren't involved , I dont mind." :)

Church I understand. But if she got involved in something that resembled prayer, would that be the end for you?

Yes. That would lower my opinion of her intelligence (which is what attracted me to her in the fist place) very much. It is a meaningless gesture.

Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Amicale

Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 30, 2012, 04:42:29 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on January 30, 2012, 04:36:10 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 30, 2012, 04:25:20 AM
My girlfriend is guilty of saying that phrase. I never know how to respond to it. She says she doesn't believe in god, but keeps her mind open to super natural things as well. I'm just like "ok, as long as church and prayer aren't involved , I dont mind." :)

Church I understand. But if she got involved in something that resembled prayer, would that be the end for you?

Yes. That would lower my opinion of her intelligence (which is what attracted me to her in the fist place) very much. It is a meaningless gesture.

Hmm. Maybe I'm confused :) but if you're OK with her keeping her mind open to supernatural things, why wouldn't you be OK with her wanting to try to communicate with them? Basically, I guess it just struck me as odd that a general 'keeping your mind open' would be OK, but any attempts to make contact with something supernatural wouldn't be OK. It seems maybe... hmm.. limiting. Kind of like saying 'I know there's a store around the corner I wouldn't mind checking out', and someone else responding with 'OK with me if you check it out, as long as you don't walk through the front door.' :)

I dunno. Don't mind me. I'm biased. My girlfriend's a fairly liberal Anglican, so I guess I'm just used to her saying prayers around me. It doesn't bother me. From where I stand, she's still one of the smartest people I know, and she shows that every single day. We've just agreed to disagree on the supernatural aspect of her life, but we still discuss it fairly often. I'm just always curious to see where and why people draw a line in the sand... so don't take my questions as criticism. I'm only interested in how relationships work between people with different spiritual beliefs. :)


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

DeterminedJuliet

One of my friends has her religion listed as "Spiritual/Catholic" on Facebook.

I've always found that a bit strange.
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

Sweetdeath

I keep my mind open to reason and logic. Supernatural is okay. Maybe ghosts exists (i do read about a lot of sightings in Japan.)

But there is something about prayer or praying that is completely pointless to me. It just seems prayer  is something only people with no basic understanding do.

Like I mentioned in the door preachers thread, only her mother is religious. That's ok, cuz i'm not dating her.
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Amicale on January 30, 2012, 06:54:09 AM
I'm just always curious to see where and why people draw a line in the sand... so don't take my questions as criticism. I'm only interested in how relationships work between people with different spiritual beliefs. :)

My girlfriend is also religious in a very liberal way and prayer is part of that.  To me, it's just a form of meditation and, to be honest, I think it's kind of cute tho I'd never say so because that's no end of condescending.  Now if she started going in for exorcism, that'd be my line in the sand.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

Ali

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on January 30, 2012, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: Amicale on January 30, 2012, 06:54:09 AM
I'm just always curious to see where and why people draw a line in the sand... so don't take my questions as criticism. I'm only interested in how relationships work between people with different spiritual beliefs. :)

My girlfriend is also religious in a very liberal way and prayer is part of that.  To me, it's just a form of meditation and, to be honest, I think it's kind of cute tho I'd never say so because that's no end of condescending.  Now if she started going in for exorcism, that'd be my line in the sand.

Does she pray out loud?  I think that would be hard for me to deal with, just because I would feel kind of awkward and embarrassed the whole time (like I do when my parents say grace.) 

Firebird

Quote from: Amicale on January 30, 2012, 01:00:19 AM
In theism generally, I've always just understood it to mean that they don't belong to a specific church, sect, or group....

Yeah, this is my interpretation too. The few people I've met who say this were a bit new-agey though, so I do personally associate it with that stereotype as well. But I'm not surprised that not everyone does.

Quote from: Sweetdeath on January 30, 2012, 02:15:51 PM
I keep my mind open to reason and logic. Supernatural is okay. Maybe ghosts exists (i do read about a lot of sightings in Japan.)

But there is something about prayer or praying that is completely pointless to me. It just seems prayer  is something only people with no basic understanding do.

If I was in a situation like that, here's what would bother me. I don't believe in god or gods or anything supernatural, but I'm open to the possibility that there's something higher out there which we don't know about. So the term "spiritual" by itself is something I could probably live with, to some extent. But once you start praying to something, it indicates you think you have some idea of what it is based on absolutely no evidence, and that you can talk to that supernatural being, based purely on feeling. And this "feeling" is often what organized religion uses to convince people of the existence of god.
Is that what bothers you too? Or is it something else?
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

Amicale

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on January 30, 2012, 03:46:56 PM
Quote from: Amicale on January 30, 2012, 06:54:09 AM
I'm just always curious to see where and why people draw a line in the sand... so don't take my questions as criticism. I'm only interested in how relationships work between people with different spiritual beliefs. :)

My girlfriend is also religious in a very liberal way and prayer is part of that.  To me, it's just a form of meditation and, to be honest, I think it's kind of cute tho I'd never say so because that's no end of condescending.  Now if she started going in for exorcism, that'd be my line in the sand.

Word for word, I agree with you... except if mine started going in for exorcism, I'd seriously insist she get a check-up from the neck up, as they say. Pronto. That wouldn't be my line in the sand unless she refused... in which it would be. But let's just say it doesn't freak me out, when someone sees or hears stuff they're not really seeing or hearing. To me that just means they probably need some help. That or they have a damned good imagination.  :P Either way, I don't generally think 'whacked out religious nut', I think 'something's off, medically speaking'... so it would always bear at least checking out before I tossed in the towel on a relationship, but that's just me.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Sweetdeath

Firebird:
Yes, prayer gives the delusion that you KNOW there is a higher being without proof. And totally disregarding the people who suffer emersely in this world, especially places like MidEast and Africa.

Like I said, my gf does neither. I couldnt date someone religious AT ALL.
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

philosoraptor

I always associated the phrase "spiritual, not religious" with a person who may believe in a higher power, but doesn't have their mind made up either way and doesn't participate in organized religion.  I'm okay with this.  I don't think it's a mark of intellectual laziness, more so an acknowledgement that the world is always changing and our knowledge of it changes, too.  Maybe a little New Age-y, but I don't think it's always a bad thing.  I've met people for whom all that meant was they believed nature was a "higher power", not in the sense that it was holy or sacred, but that it had power over humans by virtue of how awesome and/or destructive it can be and because we can't harness that power.  These people just seemed to have more reverence and regard for the earth and the environment, were more careful about littering, etc...  I don't know that I'd lump those folks in with the pantheists though because none that I met ever equated nature and God as being the same kind of force or entity.  They just felt we should be respectful of the earth because it's where we all live and obviously keeping it in good condition is beneficial to everyone.
"Come ride with me through the veins of history,
I'll show you how god falls asleep on the job.
And how can we win when fools can be kings?
Don't waste your time or time will waste you."
-Muse

pytheas

Quote from: philosoraptor on January 30, 2012, 07:07:52 PM
"spiritual, not religious" ....I'm okay with this.  I don't think it's a mark of intellectual laziness, more so an acknowledgement that the world is always changing and our knowledge of it changes, too.  Maybe a little New Age-y,  nature was a "higher power", have more reverence and regard for the earth and the environment, were more careful about littering, etc...   felt we should be respectful of the earth because it's where we all live and obviously keeping it in good condition is beneficial to everyone.

I corroborate the observation and agree.
if spirit is -as I think- neuro-electromagentic nebulae of pure biologic origin, sure we are all spiritual!

they tend to strive for the moral and pious and sincere, and some actually are..
I am convinced a subconcious knowledge of the fear of death drives "spirituality" with or without the farse of "supernatural" in individuals with heightened empathy 
"Not what we have But what we enjoy, constitutes our abundance."
"Freedom is the greatest fruit of self-sufficiency"
"Nothing is enough for the man to whom enough is too little."
by EPICURUS 4th century BCE

Twentythree

I just want to drop in my 2 cents here and stress that supernatural means outside or beyond nature. Therefore holding any "logical" reservation in your mind about the possibility of anything residing beyond nature is not conducive to logical discourse about nature. Ghosts are the same as gods, are the same as magic, are the same as fairies; when viewed as supernatural. The allowance of any supernatural cause or effect in the natural world means that you do not believe that nature is responsible all phenomena which then means that you are by definition agnostic. In my opinion in order to view the world form a naturalist perspective you have to be prepared to seek scientific cause and effect for all phenomena. If someone reports seeing a ghost it is in the naturalists best interest not to concede to the possibility of ghosts but to explore all possible natural phenomena that could lead to a perceived ghost or that would cause the observer to believe that they had seen a ghost. Psychology, physics and or biology would be the tools in deciphering ghost sightings, yielding to the possibility of ghosts or anything akin to ghosts is equally irrational as believing in gods. As far as spirituality is concerned you have to observe the phenomena of spirituality from a naturalist perspective. You need not ask yourself why did human beings evolve the propensity to assume supernatural cause for natural phenomena, and why and how did evolution select for the false perception of a second self,  a perceived  higher self or a detached self. Why did the evolution of consciousness by default elect the option of dualism rather than monism in the way the it evolved our brains to experience self. These are the naturalists questions to the idea of spirituality. The perception of spirit was never selected out of the way that we perceive self and at some point having the ability and propensity to perceive our own consciousness as separate from the body made evolutionary sense. The how and why are mysteries that natural historians have yet to solve exactly but if it exists in you today it had to have been successful to a certain degree for your ancestors yesterday.

Sandra Craft

Quote from: Ali on January 30, 2012, 04:08:17 PM
Does she pray out loud?  I think that would be hard for me to deal with, just because I would feel kind of awkward and embarrassed the whole time (like I do when my parents say grace.) 

Sometimes, on ritual occasions such as holiday dinner with her family over or when she just feels "moved" to it but for her it's usually a private thing (you know, like Jesus said to do), and it's hardly like she's shouting them out.  People praying never bothered me anyway:



Quote from: Amicale on January 30, 2012, 06:15:11 PM
Word for word, I agree with you... except if mine started going in for exorcism, I'd seriously insist she get a check-up from the neck up, as they say. Pronto. That wouldn't be my line in the sand unless she refused... in which it would be.

I'm assuming before she got to the exocism stage there'd be plenty of other red flags going up to act on so that exocism would be the "out of here" point for me.  Just like, for instance, if I claimed to have been abducted by aliens it would be the end of a long road of growing weirdness for her. 
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

orangemoon

#28
Sigh :-\. I feel so out of place in these forums, lol. I wonder if there is a forum somewhere for someone that is on the path to atheism...

Anyway.

I used to say that I was "Spiritual, but not Religious" for some time. It's been only about a year where I've been growing away from that and calling myself Agnostic. Basically when I said it, I meant that yes, I believed in a God, but I thought that religion was BS. For me, it seemed reasonable to call myself that, growing up in a family of Christians, but never identifying with Christianity or any of the other religions that I did explore. What else could I call myself? Religious didn't fit at all, but spiritual certainly did.

Furthermore, I've always had some reason to believe in ghosts, whether you want to call that spirituality or not. The house that I lived in when I was in High School had some strange occurrences happen. Probably, the occurrences could be explained away with some deeper investigation, but it still remains a mystery. Not only that, but a friend of mine, who is intelligent & an atheist herself (not that it really matters) just told me that the house that she bought is haunted. Pictures in her home started flying off the wall, loud crashes, lights turn on and off and strange noises. I've never known her to lie or exaggerate, so that has me flabbergasted.

I tell ya, it's really hard to make toward atheism, when that seems the only road that makes sense, when I have all this spiritual stuff that still weighs on my mind.
"Need is not quite belief." -Anne Sexton, With Mercy for the Greedy

The Magic Pudding

Quote from: orangemoon on January 31, 2012, 12:02:23 PM
I tell ya, it's really hard to make toward atheism, when that seems the only road that makes sense, when I have all this spiritual stuff that still weighs on my mind.

Take your time, we have no quota to fill.
Don't even have anyone to set a quota.