Hello everyone, my name is Thom and I have just recently, officially declared my atheism. I have been trying to convince myself that I was a religious person since I was a child...I'm now 28. I just finally came to the conclusion that there is no god, and if there is, he's cruel and I want nothing to do with him. Anyway, I suppose the main reason for me hanging on so long, was my wife. She is a Christian and had told me soon after we were married, that she wouldn't have accepted my proposal if I weren't a Christain myself. That was brought up after a conversation with one of my atheist friends. Basically, "I wouldn't have married you if you were an atheist.", so you can imagine my want and need to hang on to it and try.
Well, after many years of internal debate I have decided that I can no longer live a lie, so here I am.
I told my wife a couple of weeks ago about my transition, and that went over as well as a person playing with matches in a gas tanker...really bad. She told me that she felt as if I had commited suicide. She then said that when I told her that I had something serious to tell her, she thought I was going to tell her that I was gay. :o Then she told me that she would have rather I did tell her that. She then proceeded to tell me that if I didn't find Jesus "pretty f***ing quick", that our marriage was over. I simply told her to think of our 3 children, and was it really worth tearing out family apart over. That seemed to calm her down, but she didn't speak to me for a couple of days and she told me that she didn't want to hear ANYTHING about it ever. I know that she is trying to pretend that the conversation never took place. For the most part, things are now back to normal, but anytime anything religious is brought up, there is an uncomfortable silence.
Anyway, that is a little about me and my journey into my new position in life. I look forward to talking with some of you. Have a great day. :)
There's more than a few people here with similar experiences (not me, thank goodness) so you'll at least have plenty of folks to share war stories with, and get some advice from the trenches. Not sure how I got into all the war imagery.
Anyway, welcome and take a cruise around the site. You need 10 posts before you can fully participate but there are plenty of topics in Getting to Know You where you can get thru those first 10 fast.
Thanks for the welcome. I hope that I can get some advice here. I feel that if this is not confronted, then things won't get better.
Hi Thom. Welcome to HAF. BTW, I'm a Christian. :)
Do you have any intentions of making your wife's beliefs come across as "stupid" and/or "delusional" to your children? If not, make her aware of it. Make her aware that the bible does speak of not divorcing a spouse just for unbelief ( I can't remember where...I hope I'm not wrong) unless the spouse is making Christian life difficult.
One of my best friend's husband is atheist but he TOTALLY respects his wife (and her friends...which he is one of my good friends) and in fact supports her beliefs even going to church with her so not to alienate her from him or himself from her.
This type of relationship can work. There's some bible verse that speaks of a person's faith covering the lack of faith in their spouse. As long as you still love her and want to stay in a marriage with her (and her beliefs), I think it can work. She just may need some reassurance from you.
Edit: ...and time to work it out in her mind. :)
Hello and welcome to HAF, Angler28. I admire the fact that you were honest with your wife, and I hope that you will manage to convince her that the love you share and the family you've created are more important than her disapproval of your apostasy. For now, I would take her at her word, and not bring the topic up. However, maybe you could do something (or things) that you know your wife would appreciate; help remind her that she didn't marry you just because you were a Christian!
As BooksCatsEtc mentioned, you aren't the only one here who is dealing with something like this, and I'm sure you'll get some moral support (and advice) from people here at HAF, whether or not we're in a similar situation.
I hope that you enjoy your time reading and posting here! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg830.imageshack.us%2Fimg830%2F860%2Fsmilew.gif&hash=8238eab24d16418eb1c8cd60d971239ab1363c74)
Hi Thom
Well you have gone through a bit of an ordeal. As BCE mentions there are other members here who have had similar experiences to you and members who live in mixed marriages.
You know you did the right thing as one can't live a marriage as a lie. All you can do know is let her get used to the idea and fend off the attacks without backing down. Difficult times.
Thanks for making the effort to sign up and join in.
Welcome to HAF. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg32.imageshack.us%2Fimg32%2F2922%2Fcheersi.gif&hash=d22c932723fd55512134b1ae98b018246ccbb424)
Regards
Chris
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Some threads you might find interesting.
Where did you get your username from? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5133.0)
10 Things About Yourself (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=4940.0)
Tell us A Bit About Where You're From (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8215.0)
Photography (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)
Non-religious pet peeves (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=6917.0)
Pets...what do you have? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7.0)
Favorite Song, with video (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8830.0)
How to tell your family you are an atheist. (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5111.0)*
"Rules for Conducting a Discussion" by Dr. Mortimer J. Adler (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=5631.0)*
*You will need 10 posts before you can add a post to this thread, but you can read it at any time.
Welcome!
Wow, that's quite a reaction :o Hopefully it was more towards a heat of the moment thing than what she really thinks. Like it or not, you've certainly forced her to open her mind to other possibilities of belief and or lack of belief, she'll digest it all and hopefully see that a belief in god doesn't define a good person.
Welcome! I would have to say that is a pretty extreme reaction. I know at least one Christian that is very involved in Church, and even volunteers at a food pantry. I brought up the subject to her, this was a couple years ago, about Jesus being just a man, and she said that her husband believed the same thing. Like it didn't even matter. Really if you care about each other it shouldn't matter what book of mythology either of you believe in.
Here's the points I was thinking of in my previous post here.
"What should a Christian do if he or she is married to an unbeliever?"
(http://www.gotquestions.org/married-unbeliever.html)
Now before one or more of you find exception to the "submissive" part or anything therein the short article, it's simply posted as a way in which Thom can ease his wife's stress on the matter. I'm not trying to preach anything. I hope everyone would want the family to continue and not be split simply because there is a difference in belief or non-belief.
Thom, I hope this helps.
Thank you all for the kind words and support. Perhaps I should get up to my 10 posts and make an official thread out of this. What do you think?
Thank you AnimatedDirt, for the link. That was an interesting read, but at the same time, I don't want my wife to think that it is up to her to 'save' me for the rest of our marriage, and to think that she married me, so god says that she's stuck with me now. I want her to be with me because she loves me for who I am.
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 09:51:11 PM
Thank you all for the kind words and support. Perhaps I should get up to my 10 posts and make an official thread out of this. What do you think?
Thank you AnimatedDirt, for the link. That was an interesting read, but at the same time, I don't want my wife to think that it is up to her to 'save' me for the rest of our marriage, and to think that she married me, so god says that she's stuck with me now. I want her to be with me because she loves me for who I am.
That was not my intention nor is it the intention that she feel obligated to 'save' you. Simply that she can rest assured she's done nothing wrong if you and she love each other. She's not stuck with you in any way, shape or form.
I apologize.
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 09:51:11 PM
Thank you all for the kind words and support. Perhaps I should get up to my 10 posts and make an official thread out of this. What do you think?
Thank you AnimatedDirt, for the link. That was an interesting read, but at the same time, I don't want my wife to think that it is up to her to 'save' me for the rest of our marriage, and to think that she married me, so god says that she's stuck with me now. I want her to be with me because she loves me for who I am.
You can carry on in with this thread and comment as you like. You can add to other threads, or start new ones, in Getting to know you.
I'm sorry AnimatedDirt, if I came across a little rash. i know your intentions are good, and thank you, but I was referring to what was said in the link you posted. "May the truth found in 1 Peter 3:1—that an unbelieving spouse is "won over"—be the hope and goal of every Christian who is married to an unbeliever."
This is mainly what I meant. I don't want her to try and "win me over", I want her to love me for me and respect my position as much as I respect her and her beliefs. Once again though, I apologize for any mixed message AnimatedDirt and thanks again, you offer very good advice. :)
I'm kind of new to the whole forum thing, so I'm sorry if some of the things I type come across weird or 'biting', I'm trying my best to screen what I type out. :)
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 10:12:09 PM
I'm kind of new to the whole forum thing, so I'm sorry if some of the things I type come across weird or 'biting', I'm trying my best to screen what I type out. :)
It takes a little practice to get the hang of forums. We've all been n00bs at some point.
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 10:12:09 PM
I'm sorry AnimatedDirt, if I came across a little rash. i know your intentions are good, and thank you, but I was referring to what was said in the link you posted. "May the truth found in 1 Peter 3:1—that an unbelieving spouse is "won over"—be the hope and goal of every Christian who is married to an unbeliever."
This is mainly what I meant. I don't want her to try and "win me over", I want her to love me for me and respect my position as much as I respect her and her beliefs. Once again though, I apologize for any mixed message AnimatedDirt and thanks again, you offer very good advice. :)
I'm kind of new to the whole forum thing, so I'm sorry if some of the things I type come across weird or 'biting', I'm trying my best to screen what I type out. :)
Gotcha. :) I appreciate you not wanting to be 'won over'. I think it would, however, remain a hope within your wife. The point is to come to an understanding where each of you is respected and loved despite a difference that can separate a weaker couple. She can be assured of not being in a "sinful" relationship and you can be assured she will not actively try and win you over as that is definitely not her responsibility.
As Christians, just to clarify in general, it is not our duty to "win *you over", but simply to present the option.
BTW, I fail a lot to convey my thoughts perfectly in person and in writing too. No worries. :)
That's what I told my wife, AnimatedDirt, that I am the same person that I was when we married, that only my outlook on life has changed, and in my opinion, for the better. She said that she found it impossible not to believe in something. I told her that I believe in humanity, in nature, and in the love that we have for each other and our family. My goal is to respect one another on even grounds, and not to try and persuade one another one way or the other.
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 10:33:56 PM
That's what I told my wife, AnimatedDirt, that I am the same person that I was when we married, that only my outlook on life has changed, and in my opinion, for the better. She said that she found it impossible not to believe in something. I told her that I believe in humanity, in nature, and in the love that we have for each other and our family. My goal is to respect one another on even grounds, and not to try and persuade one another one way or the other.
Your wife is also probably worried that you may not let her teach your children in the Christian manner as she has assumed she would be able to. How do you feel about this? It is one reason that as Christians we tend not to marry unbelievers since when a family comes into the frame, these difficulties arise. It can be done, but who "wins" on teaching your children what you want them to be taught? It's just a point that will come up and there has to be a meeting of the minds so as not to put your children inbetween two opposing beliefs and asked to choose who "they love more". At some point they will make their own decision. Growing up in a Christian home is no guarantee that such will produce Christians 100% of the time (or vice versa). Most here at HAF seem to have been brought up or at least exposed to Christianity in their lives.
The best thing to do (IMHO) is to talk about these points of contention. If you love each other, you will be able to come to some agreement and all of you can live happily together.
Hey Thom, a warm welcome to HAF. :)
I'm sorry you're on a rough journey right now. I'm glad you're here, though. I think we're a pretty friendly bunch, and I'm sure the married folks here will have lots of help and support for you. I'm not one of them, but I'm very happy to listen. You're among friends here!
Naturally, I would rather them not be exposed to religion at all. I was raised in a quite religious setting, not quite fundamentalist, but close enough, and it was horrible. I was constantly afraid of doing something wrong and going to hell. I remember nights that I would lay awake in bed, wondering if somethine I had done at school that day would cause me to go to hell. That is no way for a child to grow up.
I'm very open with my wife's religion, and I will tell her that, when she wants to talk about it. What I would like to do, is if she wants to teach them about God, and take them to church, she can. I don't want her to force it on them though, they should make up their own minds. I just simply don't talk about anything religious around them. I leave that to my wife.
I will go over more of the details when I'm able to post a real thread. :) I hope you will follow to that one AD.
Thank you for the warm welcome Amicale :)
Hi Thom,
Welcome to HAF. So sorry to hear that your wife had such a bad reaction. I can sort of understand it, as a wife. If my husband came home one day and said he'd converted to a religion, that would be hard for me, just because I married him in the understanding that we agree on this stuff, and we had the same ideas about how we wanted to live our lives and raise our kids. So I kind of get why your wife blew a gasket. Even so, I hope that with time she will realize that you are the same man that she fell in love with and that she knows and respects, and it's okay to disagree with your spouse, even on the big stuff.
I agree with AD that a big thing is to make her understand that you respect her and love her and don't need her to change her mind about her religion. Also figure out together what makes sense with your kids. Personally I would have a hard time letting my spouse take our kids to church without comment, but you need to work out something that works for the whole family. Maybe you could actually spend time as a family exploring different religious traditions (I find that there is something about "more" religion that actually has a sort of dilution affect.) Anyway, welcome, and best of luck.
Thanks Ali. I talked to an atheist coworker about this after it happened and he put it this way, "You have had years to mull this over, weight the options, and come to your decision. You just unload all those years on her in one breath."
So that being said, I somewhat understand why she reacted the way she did. On the other hand, we hardly ever talked about religion at all, and have never been to church since we were married, so I didn't think she believed it all that strongly. I will make a more detailed thread soon, and put up the whole conversation then.
Thanks again for all the kind words, I think I will like hanging out here. :)
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 10:33:56 PM
That's what I told my wife, AnimatedDirt, that I am the same person that I was when we married, that only my outlook on life has changed, and in my opinion, for the better. She said that she found it impossible not to believe in something. I told her that I believe in humanity, in nature, and in the love that we have for each other and our family. My goal is to respect one another on even grounds, and not to try and persuade one another one way or the other.
You could always direct her here :) There are plenty of perfectly normal people on this forum. Plenty of us are boring married couples with kids who have jobs and pay their taxes, etc. If it was me, I think I'd try to figure out exactly what about your differences seems unacceptable to her. It seems like she had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Hopefully things will "settle" a bit and she'll realize that atheist =/= monster :)
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 11:09:43 PM
Naturally, I would rather them not be exposed to religion at all. I was raised in a quite religious setting, not quite fundamentalist, but close enough, and it was horrible. I was constantly afraid of doing something wrong and going to hell. I remember nights that I would lay awake in bed, wondering if somethine I had done at school that day would cause me to go to hell. That is no way for a child to grow up.
I agree, but I would consider if that is what's likely to happen between
your wife and kids? From what you've written so far, she doesn't seem like the hellfire and damnation type. Kids can grow up in a very conservative religious setting and still not get any of the H&D at all. That was my experience, and I spent a good part of my childhood with Mormons.
And as AD pointed out, the beliefs we're raised with are no guarantee of indoctrination -- most atheists in America have had a religious upbringing and yet we're still atheists, and some people are raised atheist and become religious (I think one of Madylyn Murray O'Hare's sons is now a fundamentalist preacher). Everybody finds their own level eventually.
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on May 01, 2012, 01:47:30 AM
(I think one of Madylyn Murray O'Hare's sons is now a fundamentalist preacher). Everybody finds their own level eventually.
Yes, one of her sons did, and he even became an adviser of some sort to George W. Bush. Though it also caused a permanent break in their relationship.
Welcome to HAF! While I'm happy to count you as a fellow atheist, I am sorry to hear that you are going through so much difficulty as a result of it now. I hope you are your wife can come to some sort of understanding, and that this little corner of the internet helps somewhat.
Wow, thanks again for all the encouraging words. This should put me at 10 posts now, so I will start a new thread with the entire conversation, and I hope some of you will follow over. I am heading to bed now, but I will post it tomorrow. Thanks again. :)
Thom
This thread is now in Life as an Atheist so you can carry on to your hearts content.
Quote from: Angler28 on April 30, 2012, 11:21:58 PM
Thanks Ali. I talked to an atheist coworker about this after it happened and he put it this way, "You have had years to mull this over, weight the options, and come to your decision. You just unload all those years on her in one breath."
So that being said, I somewhat understand why she reacted the way she did. On the other hand, we hardly ever talked about religion at all, and have never been to church since we were married, so I didn't think she believed it all that strongly. I will make a more detailed thread soon, and put up the whole conversation then.
Thanks again for all the kind words, I think I will like hanging out here. :)
And another issue in your wife's mind now is 'What else hasn't he told me?' While you have been working this out you have obviously, out of necessity, hidden your thoughts from her. That's going to unsettle any relationship whatever the subject. At some point you are going to have to explain why you chose to hide something so significant from her for so long.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 01, 2012, 12:11:38 AM
You could always direct her here :) There are plenty of perfectly normal people on this forum. Plenty of us are boring married couples with kids who have jobs and pay their taxes, etc. If it was me, I think I'd try to figure out exactly what about your differences seems unacceptable to her. It seems like she had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Hopefully things will "settle" a bit and she'll realize that atheist =/= monster :)
Just block her from the Image Thread... ;)
In all seriousness, it takes a "special" Christian to appreciate the atheist community. Is it any wonder places like HAF doesn't have a larger Christian following? It's not easy, but it is rewarding.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on May 01, 2012, 03:50:55 PM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 01, 2012, 12:11:38 AM
You could always direct her here :) There are plenty of perfectly normal people on this forum. Plenty of us are boring married couples with kids who have jobs and pay their taxes, etc. If it was me, I think I'd try to figure out exactly what about your differences seems unacceptable to her. It seems like she had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. Hopefully things will "settle" a bit and she'll realize that atheist =/= monster :)
Just block her from the Image Thread... ;)
Yes, for the love of FSM don't let her into that damned contentious Image Thread.
Thank you Tank, for moving this. I will now attempt to recreate our conversation for you the best I can. First, I should let you know a little about our relationship. We met at the place where we both worked and fell in love almost instantly. That was almost ten years ago and we still love each other unconditionally to this day. We have 3 children with a fourth on the way and they are the joys of our lives.
Before we got married, she asked me if I was a Christian. I was still up in the air, but at the time I did consider myself a Christian, even though looking back on it, it was more of a 'just incase there is a hell' kind of thing. I told her that I was, but I just wasn't religious, as in going to church and all that, I just worshiped in my own way. She was happy with that answer and said she felt the same way. Over the past few years, we have rarely talked about religion and when we did, it was usually about how crazy some fanatical people are and how they take it too far. I knew we weren't on the same page, but we were at least reading the same book, so to speak. That's why I thought that 'coming out' to my wife was the most logical first step. I know that my wife is super understanding and tolerant, it's one of the many, many things that I love about her.
So, we were eating dinner one evening, like normal. I waited for the kids to finish and head off into other parts of the house before I said anything. My kids don't know anything about me not believing. I intend to tell them, but not until after I find out how my wife would like to approach it. Anyway, here is the conversation, in story form.
Mr. Angler: "I have something very important to tell you, and I'm being completely serious. No joke."
Mrs. Angler: "Ok, What's on your mind?"
***pause***
Mr. Angler: "I'm an atheist."
Mrs. Angler: *smile completely disappears and replaced by look of disbelief and anguish, I did not see this coming.*
*She got up, left the table and disappeared into the laundry room. I thought, ok, just give her a few minutes to take in what I just said. Well, after I finished the dishes, about 15 minutes had passed. She finally came back in and I started to ask if she was alright, she just put her finger up at me and shook her head. She headed to our youngest sons room and I followed.
Mr. Angler: "What is it?"
Mrs. Angler: "I can't believe it. I mean, how can you not believe in anything? You have to believe in something!"
Mr. Angler: "I do believe in something."
Mrs. Angler: "Like what?" *All the while she's crying*
Mr. Angler: "I believe in the goodness of humanity, in nature, and in science."
Mrs. Angler: "I feel like you have just commited suicide...I really do, like you've just died. I thought you were going to tell me that you were gay. I wish you would have said that instead. I could handle that."
Mr. Angler: "Honey, I'm still the same person that you married, I just don't believe in god."
Mrs. Angler: "Well you better find him again pretty fucking fast or this marriage is over."
Mr. Angler: "You would do that? You would break our family apart over this? What would the kids think?"
Mrs. Angler: *thinks*
Mr. Angler: "What's wrong, seriously?"
Mrs. "What is wrong?! The kids and I are going to go to heaven, you're going to hell. We won't be together forever. How can you not accept Jesus for the loving Lord that he is?"
Mr. Angler: "Because you know that I grew up in the church and that I don't buy into it. I can't believe in something that is so unbelievable, and if there is a god, he is a cold, cruel being to allow so much evil to exist and such bad things to happen."
Mrs. Angler: "What bad things?"
Mr. Angler: "So many things in the Bible, and the slaves and people that god just kills because the didn't do what he said, just to name a small few."
Mrs. Angler: "That's all Old Testament stuff, we go by the New Testament now."
Mr. Angler: "But doesn't the Bible say that god is forever, that he is unchanging?"
Mrs. Angler: "That's not how it works....doesn't work like that."
Mr. Angler: "The thing that gets me most, is that it doesn't matter how good you are, what good deeds you do, who you help, if you don't believe, it's a one way ticket to hell."
Mrs. Angler: "Your deeds are judged too, just believing doesn't automatically get you in."
Mr. Angler: "Then what about people that commit the worst crimes and then find jesus in prison? They're saved, Jesus forgives their sins and they go to heaven. How is that right?"
Mrs. Angler: "They're just lying, they don't really find Jesus, they just say that to get out on good behavior."
Mr. Angler: "I don't want to fight with you. I'm tired of living a lie and I wanted to be honest with you. Trust me, this isn't something that I just thought up. It's not a fad, or a whim. I thought for sure that you've seen this coming."
Mrs. Angler: "I can handle my friends being atheist's, but not you...anyone but you.."
Mr. Angler: "It doesn't have to change anything, I'm still the same person you married. I still love you and the kids more than life itself."
Mrs. Angler: "You can do your atheist thing, but I don't want to hear a single thing about it. You keep it to yourself. I don't wany you to try and make me lose my faith. And I was thinking about starting to go to church again..."
Mr. Angler: "I wouldn't do that. You can believe what you want to believe, you can go to church if you want to, I'll go with you if you want me to. You don't have to tell your friends even."
Mrs. Angler: "I mean it, I don't want to hear ANYTHING about it."
That's pretty much how it went. I really didn't want to get into an argument with her, but it ended up that way anyway. I made it a point to keep my voice calm and not be condescinding. I knew it was a lot for her to take in, especially after her initial reaction. She didn't talk to me for a couple of days, then she came around. Things are pretty much back to normal, but at the same time it kind of worries me. Like I said, I think that instead of her accepting it, she has chosen to ignore it completely and pretend that it never happened.
Tank: I don't think that she thinks that, because we have a very open and honest relationship. I'm a horrible liar and she knows that. I try to be as truthful as I can be, but if I do ever try, she calls me on it everytime. Kind of funny actually.
Here is my main concern. She has chosen to ignore it, and if I bring it up again, it will start the reaction all over again. Alternately, if she has accepted it but still doesn't want to talk about it, then how am I supposed to let her know that I'm not a monster/sinner/devil worshipper? I know my wife is a very sane and rationaly person, she is a nurse after all, but I have never seen her act so emotionally and strongly to anything since we've been together and that's what's making me hesitant to say anything more.
You all have given me brilliant advice and lots of things to consider. I hope that my full story will help fill in some gaps. I know that I'm a grown up and should know how to sort things like this out, but religion is a tricky thing. Thank again.
By the way, this all happened close to a month ago now.
She has known you for ten years so she should still know that you are the same person. I was with a girl for a very short time who said the same thing. I told her I'm atheist and she said she didn't want to speak about it. Ever. So obviously that didn't work out. It's probably better that you waited this long to tell her. If you had done so earlier it would have probably broken you up. Hopefully in time she will learn to live by the principals in that book rather than the exact words. Wish I knew more on the subject, but most girls I have dealt with were Christians who could care less about what their man believed in. They weren't stuck on the idea of eternal hellfire.
Angler, thank you for sharing your story. That was brave of you.
I've had a similar experience as an atheist. With my ex-girlfriend (we didn't break up over anything at all related to religion), I also had to come out to her as a non-believer, although at the time it was as an agnostic and she was a liberal Anglican. At first, she was a little worried. It wasn't a huge deal to her per se, she just wished we were still on the same page in terms of believing in a God, and she was worried that maybe I'd become a raving skeptic who'd want her to stop going to church, etc. I tried to reassure her that I loved her as much as I always had, and that no longer believing in God wouldn't change a thing.
In the end, though, I think what convinced her things would be fine was that I stayed the same person I'd always been. I didn't start to bash her beliefs, I respected her ideas the same way I always had, we had fun together like we always did, etc... it took a bit of time, but what she needed was evidence over time, and I was happy to give that to her.
I'm thinking that maybe, your wife just might have similar concerns? She's wondering what your reaction to her will be -- if you still think she's smart, if you'll still look up to her as being a good person, if you'll still treat her the same way, etc. I hate to say it because it's so cliche, but sometimes time really does help. She'll see you being the same husband you've always been, and that might help her relax. It won't be much what you say that'll convince her, it might be how you treat her and what you do.
I'm cheering for you guys. I know it's rough now, and I wish you a smoother road ahead as things start to settle down.
Quote from: Amicale on May 01, 2012, 08:20:53 PM
Angler, thank you for sharing your story. That was brave of you.
Indeed.
Quote from: AmicaleI'm thinking that maybe, your wife just might have similar concerns? She's wondering what your reaction to her will be -- if you still think she's smart, if you'll still look up to her as being a good person, if you'll still treat her the same way, etc. I hate to say it because it's so cliche, but sometimes time really does help. She'll see you being the same husband you've always been, and that might help her relax. It won't be much what you say that'll convince her, it might be how you treat her and what you do.
...which would be my concern to some degree given the way most atheists think of Christians...that's not to say he will/does, but when a group comes together, it seems "we" tend to speak more freely.
Quote from: AmicaleI'm cheering for you guys. I know it's rough now, and I wish you a smoother road ahead as things start to settle down.
As am I.
Very true words you guys(gals?), and thanks. I agree and think the best thing will be time. I don't intend to debate with her about her beliefs, in fact, I'm not the debating type at all. :)
I'm sure she's thinking about it, and waiting to see if I change. I think she has this notion that all atheist's go around bashing christians and religion all day and are out to deconvert everyone. I know that there are some that do this, but the one's I know do not and I think most of us don't. You're right, I'll just have to prove to her that I am the same person.
One thing I forgot to say in my 'story' was that when our exchange was ending, I told her that when she was ready to talk about it, I was ready to explain. Coming to this descision was not easy and I didn't make the choice lightly. I knew that I would more than likely be alienating friends and family members, but it all comes down to being honest with yourself and not just going with the flow simply because everyone else is.
That's my outlook on it anyway. Thanks for all the advice and shared stories. I don't want you all to think that I'm here looking for a marraige counselor lol. I'm here to get to know some like minded people and make some new friends. :)
Angler, "here" is a great place to get to get to know people and make new friends.
Anyway, I agree with what Amicale said; time speaks volumes. It's hard, I know. When I have a clash with my husband, I always want everything to be alright between us right away, and that doesn't always happen, sometimes it can't happen. Sometimes the only thing that helps is time and proving that things are going to be okay by making things okay, one day at a time. It's easy to make promises "This won't change our relationship!" but in the end those are just words, and they don't mean anything if you don't live up to them. Showing her that this isn't a tradegy in your relationship, day after day, week after week, that's the undeniable proof that she needs.
Anyway, welcome again to HAF, and I hope you enjoy your time here.
Well, there's no doubt it will come up again. I'm sure you know that, but sometimes it's good for someone else to state what you already know.
Personally, in a situation like this it helps for me to write down my own personal thoughts somewhere, a journal where you feel it is safe to express exactly what you're feeling and perhaps rehearse how you want to talk to her. Alternatively, you can use that journal to write a letter to her, even if it's a letter that you don't intend to send, to say exactly what it is you're feeling and why you care about her above all else. If nothing else, that letter will help figure out exactly how to talk to her next time. And perhaps that letter is what you'll end up sending her in the end.
Good luck!
That is a very good idea Firebird. I attempted to bring the subject up today, but it was quickly shot down so I left it alone. She did however say to me that the only reason we are still together now is because she has faith that I will come back to Christianity. It looks like my only option now is to just give it time and show her that I am the same person. I really believe when she says she doesn't want to hear about it at all.
For the first time in my life, I'm truly afraid of losing my best friend. :(
I suppose if it were me, i would say get out, but since you have kids, the gameplan does tend to change.
Like the others said; maybe you can try to.give her time to adapt and then speak to her more? I do hope it works out, because what a shame for a relationship to end over religious differences. Or logic vs imaginary friends...
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 05:01:30 AM
I suppose if it were me, i would say get out, but since you have kids, the gameplan does tend to change.
Really? If it was someone you loved deeply, you'd give up that easily? Trying to work through a difference and realizing that it's irreconcilable over a course of time is one thing, but throwing away an emotionally invested relationship because a brand new issue hasn't been resolved in one month seems a bit hasty, doesn't it? Lordie, if my husband and I felt that way, we'd have been divorced ages ago. Actually, we wouldn't have lasted long enough to get married.
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 02, 2012, 05:26:55 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 05:01:30 AM
I suppose if it were me, i would say get out, but since you have kids, the gameplan does tend to change.
Really? If it was someone you loved deeply, you'd give up that easily? Trying to work through a difference and realizing that it's irreconcilable over a course of time is one thing, but throwing away an emotionally invested relationship because a brand new issue hasn't been resolved in one month seems a bit hasty, doesn't it? Lordie, if my husband and I felt that way, we'd have been divorced ages ago. Actually, we wouldn't have lasted long enough to get married.
I agree, DJ. Our grandparents came from the generation where people stayed married for 50+ years because in their lives, if something was broken, they fixed it (or at least tried REALLY hard to) rather than throwing it away. I think it's more useful to cultivate that attitude, rather than tossing a relationship out the window like a candy wrapper, just because of a fairly new issue that's almost certainly possible to resolve happily.
That's true, I was raised by my grandparents and they have been married almost 60 years now. I will do whatever I can to keep my marraige going, but I know that ultimately I can't force her to stay with me. All I can do is show her that I still care about her and the kids and do everything I can to show her that I'm still a good person and not a monster. In the end though, she will have to make the choice to stay or go, and I think she will end up staying.
If I had to guess, I would say she probably feels like she doesn't know you anymore (especially since you suddenly, at least to her, came out as an atheist which probably feels like something totally alien to her.)
What are her beliefs on what happens to non believers? And on an atheists morality? Is she defensive of what she feels should be the proper upbringing of your kids? What does she say and think about atheists in general? I don't want to come off as too curious (I understand if you don't answer them on a public forum), but these infos are lacking, and probably something you should take into consideration.
But anyways, the worst is probably over, if she didn't leave you when you dropped the bombshell, she probably won't.
Quote from: Amicale on May 02, 2012, 05:46:10 AM
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 02, 2012, 05:26:55 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 05:01:30 AM
I suppose if it were me, i would say get out, but since you have kids, the gameplan does tend to change.
Really? If it was someone you loved deeply, you'd give up that easily? ....
I agree, DJ. Our grandparents came from the generation where people stayed married for 50+ years....
Going with Sweetdeath's scenario of no kids, but a relationship that's lasted say ten years, totally committed.
Your partners not a churchgoer, you say you don't believe and they write you off just like that.
I can't fully place my self in this scenario, I think I'd have to ask do I mean so little to you?
I don't think I like this theoretical woman, I think I'll let her go.
She might not have been happy before this came up though.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 02, 2012, 02:43:37 PM
If I had to guess, I would say she probably feels like she doesn't know you anymore (especially since you suddenly, at least to her, came out as an atheist which probably feels like something totally alien to her.)
What are her beliefs on what happens to non believers? And on an atheists morality? Is she defensive of what she feels should be the proper upbringing of your kids? What does she say and think about atheists in general? I don't want to come off as too curious (I understand if you don't answer them on a public forum), but these infos are lacking, and probably something you should take into consideration.
But anyways, the worst is probably over, if she didn't leave you when you dropped the bombshell, she probably won't.
The thing is, she's never came across as religious before now. I knew that she was Christian, but we've never been to church together, never even talked about it. As far as what she believes about non-believers, she is certain that I'm going to hell if I don't come back to Christianity. It gets even wierder as she is totally fine with her friends or other family members being atheist, but not me. She ever said that when our kids get older and can make the decision for themselves and the choose atheism, then that's ok with her. She is sending mixed signals it seems. I brought up the morality issue and she told me that she knew I was a good person, but if I don't believe then we can't be a family in heaven for all eternity.
This seems to be the main issue. She is scared of hell and letting that influence her belief. She is afraid to even think there is no afterlife. I talk to her a little more last night, but she cut me off and said she didn't want to hear it at all. She then said that the only reason we are still together after I told her I am an atheist, is that she is certain that if she gets me back into church, I will change my mind. I then asked her if so in five years, I'm still an atheist, she would leave. She didn't answer.
*edit- I know it's hard for some to not understand why I want to stay. It's more than just an emotional investment to me. She is my best friend and the only person that I trust with my life. She is the mother of my children. I came from a broken home. My mother died when I was 4, my dad disowned me at that time saying that I wasn't his, so my grandparents (mothers side) adopted me. I have grown up promising myself that I would not let this happen with my kids. That we would be a family through and through and to let something like religion mess that up? It irritates me beyond all imagining and it confirms, to me at least all the horrible things that religion does. She knows and believes that I am a good person, that I have never hurt anyone, I have never layed a finger on her or the kids. (She came from a relationship where her ex would beat her so bad, she feared for her life.) None of this seems to matter though, because I simply don't believe in god. To me it's like saying, "You're a really nice guy, you have the kind of morals and sense of direction in life that I have been searching for. You would be perfect for me...but go fuck yourself.
I wouldn't mind hearing about the finding of fish.
Crawling out of the tent,
mist on the river, water over stone...
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:32:57 PM
I know it's hard for some to not understand why I want to stay.
I don't find it hard at all. To have shared a life for somebody you love for such a long time is not something you walk out of just like that. It's not like it was a relationship near collapse before this happened and this was the last straw. The life you have is worth fighting for and sometimes to win a war you have to retreat and regroup. Give space and take time for things to settle down and see how the land lies (cliché count reaching critical).
Quote from: Tank on May 02, 2012, 04:51:27 PM
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:32:57 PM
I know it's hard for some to not understand why I want to stay.
I don't find it hard at all. To have shared a life for somebody you love for such a long time is not something you walk out of just like that. It's not like it was a relationship near collapse before this happened and this was the last straw. The life you have is worth fighting for and sometimes to win a war you have to retreat and regroup. Give space and take time for things to settle down and see how the land lies (cliché count reaching critical).
Nothing wrong with wise clichés ;D
Thanks Tank, and I agree with you. I will just keep my mouth shut and give it time. Whatever happens will happen and I will know that I tried my best to keep things together.
I would like to say that in light of everything I have said here, I am a very happy atheist. :)
PS- Pudding, not quite sure I follow you there. ???
Hey Angler!! First of all Welcome to the gang!!
Second, I can TOTALLY identify with much of what you are going through. Please, give your wife some space for a while, she'll need it. It is tempting when you've figured things out for yourself to tell those closest to you all about it, but it must be done so with caution,especially if you truly want the relationship to continue in a positive direction. I've been married for eight years this month, have 2 kids, and I first started dating my wife 15 years ago, and I only told her about 3 years ago that I was an atheist. She has seen me come and go as a Catholic, agnostic, pagan, or whatever else I had going on, and now an athiest/pantheist (she probably just doesn't know what to do with me anymore :) ) People change throughout their entire lives and neither one of us are the same two people we were when we were 15 and rock'in the love boat :P What is MOST important is not that you're having a storm or not, but how you "weather the storm."
Actions speak louder than words in relationships, so just show her what a great father and husband you still are, and help us all break the stereotypes people have about atheists. Be romantic, tell her how special she is, be playful with the kids; enjoy all those things in life and spread enthusiasm about THIS life with your wife, children, and friends. Everyone will appreciate this.
Although you did the first step and told her that you're an atheists, I would reserve your discussions of atheism with people other than your wife until she is ready so she doesn't feel overwhelmed.
I hope this helps!
That helps a lot Jimmy, thank you, and that is a reason why I joined this forum, so that I can have like minded conversations and discussions and I can respect my wifes wished at the same time.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 02, 2012, 04:46:23 PM
I wouldn't mind hearing about the finding of fish.
Crawling out of the tent,
mist on the river, water over stone...
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
PS- Pudding, not quite sure I follow you there. ???
Your user name is Angler, you have a fishing avatar.
Pudding's posts are often delightfully cryptic with plenty of twisty-turny-ness. Don't worry, you aren't the only one who gets lost from time to time.
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
Thanks Tank, and I agree with you. I will just keep my mouth shut and give it time. Whatever happens will happen and I will know that I tried my best to keep things together.
The thing is your wife has now got to make an active choice to bring matters to a head. The ball is in her court now, and you don't have to go and get it. Let her realise the only person who is going to make matters worse ie break up the family, is her. So let her contemplate her next action and try not to give her any new ammunition. I see lots of fishing trips in your future ;D
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
I would like to say that in light of everything I have said here, I am a very happy atheist. :)
That's good to hear and let it stay so for a long time to come.
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
PS- Pudding, not quite sure I follow you there. ???
You won't be the first!!! (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F2438%2Fheheoc.gif&hash=50cf1131f6316b9f48965cce1bfe1877dc8f90e7)
Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on May 02, 2012, 05:26:55 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 05:01:30 AM
I suppose if it were me, i would say get out, but since you have kids, the gameplan does tend to change.
Really? If it was someone you loved deeply, you'd give up that easily? Trying to work through a difference and realizing that it's irreconcilable over a course of time is one thing, but throwing away an emotionally invested relationship because a brand new issue hasn't been resolved in one month seems a bit hasty, doesn't it? Lordie, if my husband and I felt that way, we'd have been divorced ages ago. Actually, we wouldn't have lasted long enough to get married.
*shrug* no relationship is easy.
I suppose sometimes people change. You really need to know what you're getting into for marriage.
Have never been religious, so i knew i could never been in a relationship with someone who believed in imaginary friends.
Then again, it is a bit easier to find gay atheists. (hmm, wonder why ::) ) At least in my experience.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 02, 2012, 04:46:23 PM
I wouldn't mind hearing about the finding of fish.
Crawling out of the tent,
mist on the river, water over stone...
Haha, so poetic today. <3
You mean how he met his wife story? :)
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 08:36:08 PM
Have never been religious, so i knew i could never been in a relationship with someone who believed in imaginary friends.
So, what would happen if your partner discovered god?
Would you find it intolerable and break up, or would you still love and want to share life with them?
Does anyone put a "I promise to love and cherish you for so long as we are both Atheists (or Christians, or Muslims, etc)" into their wedding vows?
I think generally these break-ups are because of the religious partner, atheists are generally a tolerant bunch.
Quote from: Stevil on May 02, 2012, 08:49:22 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 08:36:08 PM
Have never been religious, so i knew i could never been in a relationship with someone who believed in imaginary friends.
So, what would happen if your partner discovered god?
Would you find it intolerable and break up, or would you still love and want to share life with them?
Does anyone put a "I promise to love and cherish you for so long as we are both Atheists (or Christians, or Muslims, etc)" into their wedding vows?
I think generally these break-ups are because of the religious partner, atheists are generally a tolerant bunch.
I'd be pretty pissed off if my gf became religious suddenly. Though she is a very logical , scientist type, so i highly doubt this would ever happen.
People break up pover lesser things. But yeah, i couldnt tolerate dating a religious person.
That doesnt make me a bad or non-sensical person.
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 03, 2012, 12:14:22 AM
That doesnt make me a bad or non-sensical person.
Just superficial yeah?
I mean, if she believed in a deist god, it created the universe, but does not require worship, or following of any moral code, then how would that affect your relationship?
Quote from: Stevil on May 03, 2012, 12:26:31 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 03, 2012, 12:14:22 AM
That doesnt make me a bad or non-sensical person.
Just superficial yeah?
I mean, if she believed in a deist god, it created the universe, but does not require worship, or following of any moral code, then how would that affect your relationship?
Well, i suppose like anything, there is a level of degree. Beleiving and acting highly religious are two things. Like prayer or saying grace.
I cant be a religious person. It is just not in me.
I am actually not superficial, but thanks for the assumptions that you know me or my relationship. ::)
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 03, 2012, 12:32:35 AM
I am actually not superficial, but thanks for the assumptions that you know me or my relationship. ::)
LOL, just saying it is superficial to dump someone you love based on their belief.
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 02, 2012, 05:50:51 PM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on May 02, 2012, 04:46:23 PM
I wouldn't mind hearing about the finding of fish.
Crawling out of the tent,
mist on the river, water over stone...
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
PS- Pudding, not quite sure I follow you there. ???
Your user name is Angler, you have a fishing avatar.
Ah, thought you may have meant something like that, but reading many of your posts, I wasn't quite sure what to make of it. :D
Anytime you would like to hear a story friend, I have plenty to share.
I'd love to hear a story, Angler. Please, tell us about how you met your wife, or a nice vacation your family's been on, or a fun story about your kids. :)
*gets comfy and settles in for story hour*
Quote from: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:55:04 PM
Thanks Tank, and I agree with you. I will just keep my mouth shut and give it time. Whatever happens will happen and I will know that I tried my best to keep things together.
I think that's best -- I know you're probably anxious about things and want it sorted out but since she's more than a little freaked, it's good to give her time to adjust to what is for her (as your friend pointed out) a big change coming right out of the blue. Otherwise you risk coming off pushy and nobody likes that.
For what it's worth, you do have a lot of company as an atheist with a religious partner. They are in the vast majority, after all, and it's inevitable we pair up more often than not, particularly if we come late to atheism. My girlfriend is religious in a liberal deist way and tho she had the advantage of knowing from the beginning I was an atheist I was still a little worried she might blame me when her daughter went agnostic. Fortunately, she did not.
I would also like to hear a fish story -- specifically why in your avatar you are a bean or potato.
Quote from: Stevil on May 03, 2012, 12:50:05 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on May 03, 2012, 12:32:35 AM
I am actually not superficial, but thanks for the assumptions that you know me or my relationship. ::)
LOL, just saying it is superficial to dump someone you love based on their belief.
Like i said, it does depend on the degree of belief. :)
Well, I think the avatar is a potato, and I thought hey, I'm Irish and there's a potato fishing, so...perfect. :)
I think it would be appropriate to share how my wife and I met. I had been working at Wal Mart for a couple of years when she started there as a cashier. I took notice of her immediately but I didn't know how to talk to her. I'm very outspoken and not shy at all..until it comes to expressing my feelings. I had my best friend, who worked in my department break the ice for us. He started talking to her for a but before he got around to introducing us, but after that we hung out every chace we got. I was 19 and she was 18. (We married young I guess you could say)
She was raised by her grandmother, so that among many other things that we had in common was comforting to us. She was still in high school and I had just graduated the year before, so her grandmother would get mad at me that I kept her out late on school nights. We weren't doing anything that we shouldn't have, just talking and getting to know one another. That was until I met her grandmother, and my wife said that she was so happy that she had met a nice young man finally. I didn't really get it at the time, but I found out later that her ex would beat her all the time and even hit her grandmother a few times. This guy was bad news.
Well, I eventually transfered to a cart pusher, because I hate being cooped up indoors and that would give me some freedom. One day a truck came screeching up and a little guy that came up to not even my chest, (I'm a big guy.) jumped out of the truck and made a mad dash towards me. When he came to me, I said to me in a really nasty manner that he was looking for someone that worked here. I am a person that believes that no matter what your job is, you should take pride in it, so I was alway nice and friendly, even when I felt people didn't deserve it. I smiled and said I would help if I could and asked him who he was looking for. He practically spat my name out. I just looked at him and said; "You're talking to him." It was so funny, his expression changed immediately and he became really fidgitey. He then told me that he heard I was dating my now wife. I told him that I was. He nodded and asked me how she was doing, I told him that she was doing fantastic. He nodded again, then told me to have a nice day and left.
When my wife came to get me for our lunch break, I told her about the strange little man and she asked me what he looked like and what kind of truck he was driving, then she started laughing. She then told me that it was her ex, and he was here to beat me up for dating her. We both then had a nice hearty laugh.
There is much, much more and maybe I will share more in time, but basically, we dated for 6 months, got married and had our beautiful children and here we are today, almost 9 years later. (nutshell) :D
Here is a fishing story too. I was at this state park in Missouri about 15 years ago and was fly fishing for some rainbow trout. The park had a daily limit of 5, and I had four so I was working on my last one. I cast out and let my line float down to this massive brush pile where I could see about 3 trout congregating. As my luck goes, my line snagged and I scared the fish away trying to free it up. All of a sudden there was this HUGE hit and it nearly yanked the rod out of my hand. My line unsnagged and I started to reel it in. I do way more catfishing than I do anything else, and this felt more like a channel cat than a trout. (For those of you that don't know, catfish can grow up to over 3 feet and weigh nearly 100 lbs or more in rare cases)
Turns out, a beaver had tried to eat the rubber worm I was using and hooked himsell. Talk about surprised. :) That was better than any fish fight I've ever had lol. I mostly fish catch and release, so I have removed all of the barbs from my hooks. The beaver finally spit the hook out and went about his merry way. It was a very interesting day. Of couse however, no one believed me. ::)
Quote from: Angler28 on May 03, 2012, 04:09:17 AM
but I found out later that her ex would beat her all the time and even hit her grandmother a few times. This guy was bad news.
So it seems that lack of belief in Jesus is inexcusable but girlfriend and grandma beating is just a slip up?
Hmmm, maybe she is over-reacting at the moment, give it time to sink in, things will hopefully settle.
Quote from: Angler28 on May 03, 2012, 04:09:17 AM
He nodded again, then told me to have a nice day and left.
Man enough to beat on a girl and her grandmother, but a coward in the face of real competition. Typical.
Bloody funny though!
Quote from: Angler28 on May 03, 2012, 04:09:17 AM
we dated for 6 months, got married and had our beautiful children and here we are today, almost 9 years later. (nutshell) :D
Wow you guys got married very young, and so quickly. You must have jelled really well.
I have a feeling that an older, more mature woman would consider your situation more rather than blurting out that you better find Jesus quickly.
The benefit of youth is that you guys are less set in your ways.
I am starting to have a lot more faith that you will sort out your differences no problems, just give it time.
I am sure there are many reasons, other than Jesus, as to why she loves spending time with you.
Quote from: Stevil on May 03, 2012, 04:27:09 AM
I have a feeling that an older, more mature woman would consider your situation more rather than blurting out that you better find Jesus quickly.
Hey. I met my husband when I was 20, got married at 23, am currently 26 and I think I'm plenty mature, thankyouverramuch! I'm not saying that you're wrong about her adjusting or changing her mind, but it very well could be a personality thing and not just an immaturity thing. I have a sister who is 8 years older than I am and she has pretty much always acted younger than I have. I seriously feel like I have the "older sibling" role with her. Age =/= maturity level. Just sayin'.
Anyhoo. Not to derail, I do think there has been some stellar advice here. Giving her some time definitely sounds like the way to go. At least for now. :)
Angler, thanks for sharing those stories! I always appreciate a good "how we met" story.
One thing I thought of that I'm not sure anyone's commented on yet: did I dream it up, or did you say your wife's pregnant right now? Because pregnancy hormones can take a normally rational person all OVER the place. Even minus the pregnancy, the stress of raising young children (and maybe working?) as well as any other issues in your lives... well, I can see how that stuff might turn your announcement about your atheism into a 6% event.
I honestly forget whether it was Rich Lyons at Living After Faith podcast or Seth Andrews at The Thinking Atheist who said it, but a 6% event is when there are a bunch of other stress factors that have slowly build your stress level up from 0 to 20% to 45% etc etc until you're at 95% stressed out... and then one more thing happens, large or small, and it pushes the stress over the top.
I don't know your or her situation of course, and on a public message board I understand you'd only feel inclined to answer what you wanted to. But it might be worth it to consider what stuff is going on in your lives healthwise, workwise, familywise, moneywise etc etc... and maybe even with your wife's own faith -- sometimes those who are feeling doubts about their own faith are more apt to become upset with people who are also feeling doubts, because they're scared.
Sorry for rambling. Just a few more thoughts to add to the pile of much more excellent advice from the married folks here. I do at least understand the pregnancy and childraising thing, though. :)
You're very welcome Amicale. I love reading people life stories as well and yes, my wife is pregnant with our fourth child now. The thing about my wife is that over the other three pregnancies, she hardly changed at all. The hormone issue simply was not an issue, as it is not this time. I'm beginning to think that she is just scared to think contrary to her beliefs and how she was raised. I now see fully that time is the best thing.
@ Stevil Yeah, it was funny, but he was lucky that I didn't know who he was at the time. We would have had words for sure. I'm not a violent person, but I can have a very sharp tongue.
The beaver is the ultimate 'One that got away' story isn't it! ;D
I don't really have the patients to fish. My wife refers to me 'Taking a worm for swimming lessons.' >:( Photography suits my temperament much better.
I met my wife 5th Nov '79, engaged Christmas '79, married 31st March '80. So not quite 5 months. We were both 20 but she's 4 months older than me so she gets to the significant 'orbit counts' before me. A point I rarely let her forget. Over the years she has also forgotten our anniversary 3(?) times 'ish. :D
My first grandchild was born 29th Nov 2010.
Congratulations on you wonderful marriage Tank. :)
I still bring up the beaver story every now and then, but it's still met with "whatever". lol I love to fish, but I mainly do it to get out and enjoy the great outdoors. I know that sounds horribly cliche, but I can stay out all day with my line in that water, not get a single bite, and I couldn't be happier. :D
Quote from: Angler28 on May 03, 2012, 07:51:53 AM
Congratulations on you wonderful marriage Tank. :)
I still bring up the beaver story every now and then, but it's still met with "whatever". lol I love to fish, but I mainly do it to get out and enjoy the great outdoors. I know that sounds horribly cliche, but I can stay out all day with my line in that water, not get a single bite, and I couldn't be happier. :D
Thank you!
I understand the getting out into the country. I have two dogs who are my excuse for spending hours in the woods and fields ;D
Maybe i'm a modern kid, but i dont want to get married, but if mimi really really wants to. We must be together at least 5years, and already lived together one year.
My sister got together with her bf at 16, pregnant at 18. Broke up with bf at 22.
But hey, thats how i feel about young love.
Everyone different. :(
It's hard for me to figure out your wife right now. And I don't mean that in a negative way. It sounds like you guys have had a very loving relationship with a lot of great, memorable moments, and it strikes me as odd that she had such an extreme reaction to your revelation when she doesn't even go to church much. Doesn't quite fit with the picture you've described of her otherwise, especially about how she'd be fine with her friends and even kids becoming atheist. Was her family religious at all? Maybe she feels like she's betraying someone else close to her in some strange way? It just sounds like there's more to the story than this.
Would couples therapy be an option here? As many people have pointed out, you're hardly the only couple with religious differences, so there must be a therapist that's somewhat familiar with these issues out there. It might be worth considering that if she continues to feel uncomfortable talking about this. I know it's been very helpful to other couples I've known.
On a side-note, beavers are awesome :) My wife and I went on a tour of beaver lodges and dams at a nature preserve near us recently, and it was really fascinating.
Quote from: Firebird on May 04, 2012, 01:39:24 AM
It's hard for me to figure out your wife right now. And I don't mean that in a negative way. It sounds like you guys have had a very loving relationship with a lot of great, memorable moments, and it strikes me as odd that she had such an extreme reaction to your revelation when she doesn't even go to church much. Doesn't quite fit with the picture you've described of her otherwise, especially about how she'd be fine with her friends and even kids becoming atheist. Was her family religious at all? Maybe she feels like she's betraying someone else close to her in some strange way? It just sounds like there's more to the story than this.
Almost exactly the same thoughts had crossed my mind. In particular the extreme reaction of Thom's wife when they aren't church goers.
Please pardon the 3rd person reference Thom.
No problem with the 3rd person. :)
I know that I'm not a perfect person, and I've done my fair share of things to make her mad and vice versa, but this completely blindsided me. If I would have know she was going to react that way, I would have been more subtle about it. There is only one thing I can think of in the past that happened that gave her reason to doubt me, I won't go into too much detail. My best friend was engaged to a girl and things were going really great for them. Friends of our that knew her though, were saying that she was crazy and all this, but from what we saw she was very sane and they got along great. They dated for about 6 months, then decided to move in together. They lived together for about another 6 months. All if a sudden she started treating my friend like crap, staying out really late, going out and leaving him home, things like that. Turns out all our friends were right. We all worked together at the same place and this crazy fiance started spreading rumors that her and I had slept together. My friend and I saw it for what it was, she was just trying to hurt him, but my wife believed it. You see, the ex that would abuse her, regularly cheated on her. As irony would have it, he cheated on her with my ex girlfriend that cheated on me once, so she had some trust issues. I figured that nearly ten years of loyal friendship and love would help her deal with those issues.
Anyway, my friend convinced my wife that it was all just a bunch of BS and that she was crazy. Things calmed down and went back to normal, but I know that it's still lurking in the back of her mind, then when I told her about my atheism, as someone said a few posts back, she's probably wondering what else I haven't told her.
Was your wife's ex an atheist?
No, I can't remember, but he was either catholic or christian. She had two or three atheist friend when she was in high school and was really close to them. She would talk about them all the time. I have never heard her say anything negative about atheists or atheism, until I told he I was one. Believe me, I'm scratching my head too. :)
Quote from: Angler28 on May 04, 2012, 03:56:43 PM
No, I can't remember, but he was either catholic or christian. She had two or three atheist friend when she was in high school and was really close to them. She would talk about them all the time. I have never heard her say anything negative about atheists or atheism, until I told he I was one. Believe me, I'm scratching my head too. :)
I bet you are. I have no 'sound bite' answers either. I think it's a case of 'watch this space'.
Not to be belittle your wife's feelings, but pregnancy hormones really might have something to do with it. When my sister and I were both pregnant at the same time we got into the most ridiculous argument ever (about baby names). Looking back at it, it's kind of laughable at how far it escalated, but at the time we were both REALLY upset about it. Trying to figure out where she's coming from might be futile right now. Pregnancy can do crazy things to people and no two pregnancies, even with the same person, are identical.
That's very true Juliet. I'm just going to give he space and not make her fret over anything, for her and the baby's sake.
I don't know this for sure (of course since I don't know your wife), but another thought that crossed my mind is that she could be going through some real cognitive dissonance right now. You said that she does believe in hell and that non believers go there right? That would mean an eternal separation in her mind. I suspect that if your children were to one day declare themselves atheists and she still held her beliefs, she would react in more or less the same way (despite of what she told you)...
If she is struggling with that dissonance, then just that can be extremely stressful. Something is going to have to change, either she changes her beliefs (not saying become an atheist necessarily, but her views on hell) or she accepts in her mind that you will burn forever. Since what she believes is her reality, which in turn influences her thoughts, emotions and actions, they really matter and should be taken into consideration. Whether hell is real or not is secondary (unless she changes her beliefs).
For now though she seems to be coping with it by thinking that you will become a believer again and saved in the end.
You're in a complicated situation. :(
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2012, 12:46:00 AM
You're in a complicated situation. :(
Tell me about it, and I know her well enough that I am certain that she means what she says. I'm just going to leave it alone and see if she approaches me about it at some point.