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Duke of Bullshit: "The" Donald

Started by Recusant, November 11, 2015, 11:29:56 PM

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joeactor

Quote from: Arturo on August 14, 2017, 11:51:13 PM
I guess Donald called out the nazis and kkk? What exactly did he say?

Here's my summation (from above): "Hey! The Economy's great! You can thank me for that... oh, and Nazi's are apparently a bad thing. Very bad. Uh, what else? Oh, yeah, something about a dead person."

Arturo

Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Arturo on August 14, 2017, 11:51:13 PM
I guess Donald called out the nazis and kkk? What exactly did he say?

Here's my summation (from above): "Hey! The Economy's great! You can thank me for that... oh, and Nazi's are apparently a bad thing. Very bad. Uh, what else? Oh, yeah, something about a dead person."

Ahh ok. I wasn't sure if that was the same thing. So is there a video of it somewhere?
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

joeactor

Quote from: Arturo on August 15, 2017, 01:04:13 AM
Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Arturo on August 14, 2017, 11:51:13 PM
I guess Donald called out the nazis and kkk? What exactly did he say?

Here's my summation (from above): "Hey! The Economy's great! You can thank me for that... oh, and Nazi's are apparently a bad thing. Very bad. Uh, what else? Oh, yeah, something about a dead person."

Ahh ok. I wasn't sure if that was the same thing. So is there a video of it somewhere?

Sure! Here's all 5 minutes:

Arturo

Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 01:08:08 AM
Quote from: Arturo on August 15, 2017, 01:04:13 AM
Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Arturo on August 14, 2017, 11:51:13 PM
I guess Donald called out the nazis and kkk? What exactly did he say?

Here's my summation (from above): "Hey! The Economy's great! You can thank me for that... oh, and Nazi's are apparently a bad thing. Very bad. Uh, what else? Oh, yeah, something about a dead person."

Ahh ok. I wasn't sure if that was the same thing. So is there a video of it somewhere?

Sure! Here's all 5 minutes:


Hmm yeah he fails to say this womam was black and attaches the other identity of "American". Yes she's American but she's Black too! He's acting like a dictator who gives everyone the identity he wants them to have. And all this was to dodge the fact this was a racially motivated to kill blacks.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dave

Quote from: Arturo on August 15, 2017, 01:39:43 AM
Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 01:08:08 AM
Quote from: Arturo on August 15, 2017, 01:04:13 AM
Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 12:51:35 AM
Quote from: Arturo on August 14, 2017, 11:51:13 PM
I guess Donald called out the nazis and kkk? What exactly did he say?

Here's my summation (from above): "Hey! The Economy's great! You can thank me for that... oh, and Nazi's are apparently a bad thing. Very bad. Uh, what else? Oh, yeah, something about a dead person."

Ahh ok. I wasn't sure if that was the same thing. So is there a video of it somewhere?

Sure! Here's all 5 minutes:


Hmm yeah he fails to say this womam was black and attaches the other identity of "American". Yes she's American but she's Black too! He's acting like a dictator who gives everyone the identity he wants them to have. And all this was to dodge the fact this was a racially motivated to kill blacks.

Not on Trump's side but this can be a case of, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If someone is "American" then their colour is irrelevant. If they are "African American" or "black American" then they are not the same as a "white American" or an "Asian American" or a "Native American" or . . .

So, do you want an American nation or a nation of different colours? Ideally the colour should be irrelevant, not worthy of mention, otherwise you will never have true equality.

OK, we are very far from the ideal as yet. Perhaps one day the term "black American" -will be used with the same disdain that "WASP" has earned.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Dave

#770
Further on my last:

If it is required that the murder victim, in the Charlotteville case, be labeled "black" then if she had been white is would be just as valid to label her such. But this encourages division, "them and us".

The headline, "Black police officer shoots white teenager," is just as valid as, "White police officer shoots black teenager" - each has the same potential, in the bigotted minds of either ethnic group, to drive the wedge further in. "The headline, "American police officer shoots American teenager," is probably never going to appear - it is, maybe and unfortunately, common enough as to be "not newsworthy" and (unless the "Teenage Lives Matter" movement is started) is not going to pander to bigotry and, thus, promote more newsworthy events like protests and riots.

To label a victim as simply "American" is perfectly accurate and inclusive.

However I somehow doubt that Trump himself worked out thst nuance, it was either an accident or by some speech writer with training in psychology or diversity.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Asmodean

So apparently, college kids are being all protesty over this Far-Right business. Yeah. Good and well. Organize counter-protests and what have you, but why outside the White House? That was not where them right-wingers had their rally, no?

I think they are all a bunch of fools, really... If you identify as a "person of color" (Which black is technically the absence of... Just a by-the-way for the pedantic sort of Asmo) or "white" or whatever before identifying as "American,"* sorry, but I can't see how you are a part of the solution to racism or other tribal bigotry in your society. I can easily see how you are a part of the problem though.

Morgan Freeman had the right idea in a video somewhere... Nope. Can't be bothered to look. Something about "Black history month" or some such bullshit.

*Another calrification for the pedantic sort of Asmo; What I mean is, if you identify in a way which divides people into "you" and "them" within your own society.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Arturo

I see where you guys are coming from. In all honesty I feel both ways have their good sides and bad. I have been thinking about this for awhile and I think this goes way back further than me. Being able to forge your identity is a right, at least for me. If everyone was the same then it would be very dystopian. At the same time, what you guys say is also true. There is no right answer it seems, only wrong ones.

Since we are on the subject of my viewpoint of identity forging, I'd like to share this:
Everyone is different in some way. Even identical twins are different in many ways. And I think that being different is something that adds value to one's life. It's what makes your uniqueness, your personality, add new things to other people's lives in which they never had before. It makes them new.

But as much as we are different, we are the same as many others. And we form groups with these people who are the same. We all have our own little cliques and some of us excel at some things more than others. So what I am proposing, is that these people who do not excel at certain things, be brought up to the same level as those who are magnificent at them. Then we can say that we have equal starting positions no? And this can, hypothetically, potentiate a more progressive society.

Note: I use "progressive" in a way that means people make successes in their lives.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dave

Quote from: Arturo on August 15, 2017, 04:09:52 PM
I see where you guys are coming from. In all honesty I feel both ways have their good sides and bad. I have been thinking about this for awhile and I think this goes way back further than me. Being able to forge your identity is a right, at least for me. If everyone was the same then it would be very dystopian. At the same time, what you guys say is also true. There is no right answer it seems, only wrong ones.

Since we are on the subject of my viewpoint of identity forging, I'd like to share this:
Everyone is different in some way. Even identical twins are different in many ways. And I think that being different is something that adds value to one's life. It's what makes your uniqueness, your personality, add new things to other people's lives in which they never had before. It makes them new.

But as much as we are different, we are the same as many others. And we form groups with these people who are the same. We all have our own little cliques and some of us excel at some things more than others. So what I am proposing, is that these people who do not excel at certain things, be brought up to the same level as those who are magnificent at them. Then we can say that we have equal starting positions no? And this can, hypothetically, potentiate a more progressive society.

Note: I use "progressive" in a way that means people make successes in their lives.

Ah, true philosophy! Needs a footnote to define the context in which a word is used to ensure accurate understanding!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Arturo

As I was writing the above, I was thinking about how the Sioux would not name their children. Instead their children would names themselves after they go on their "vision quest". I wonder if a version of this could be adapted where people have no names or identifiers of any kind. However this would make it more difficult I would imagine in some ways that I am having trouble bringing to mind. But all I can think is "why do we need names for people?" I don't see any benefit to that other than to satisfy tribal instinct of "us and them". Maybe it would not reduce the instinct but make it more emotional? In which case that would make things worse I would think.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Asmodean

Yes... In large groups, I can easily see how institutionalised emotional bullshit, let's call it, may indeed make matters worse.

Thing is though, there is no problem with identifying as such-and-such. It's what you do with that identity and how much you let it control your life rather than controlling it yourself that plays the more prominent role in how much it will fuck you or someone else over.

To put it this way, I would self-identify as white if I was the only, or near enough, white person in a room, but to no other effect than to use it as a unique visual queue to make myself readily identifiable in that particular crowd. In much the same way, I would identify myself as tall in a company of dwarves, adult in the company of children and so on. That's perfectly benign. Doing the same among peers in whatever it may be though, well... You do risk ending up in an echo chamber and eventually increasing the gap between those peers and the "them." I'm not interested in that, and so identifying as A in the company of As is... An irrelevant exercise.

I'm not sure if I'm conveying my meaning with any semblance of clarity, so I think I'll give up for now.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

joeactor

BTW, if you haven't heard, T-Rump just undid everything in his prepared monkey-in-a-suit speech.

He's gone back to "all sides are at fault" and even coined the term "Alt-Left" (which is trending on twitter now)

Disgusting.

BTW, you might want a couple dozen of these stickers:
http://www.sirmitchell.com/product/45-sticker

Asmodean

#777
Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 10:55:13 PM
BTW, if you haven't heard, T-Rump just undid everything in his prepared monkey-in-a-suit speech.

He's gone back to "all sides are at fault" and even coined the term "Alt-Left" (which is trending on twitter now)

Disgusting.

BTW, you might want a couple dozen of these stickers:
http://www.sirmitchell.com/product/45-sticker
I'll need to watch the thing, but his initial "on many sides" comment was (probably unintentionally) accurate. The left-leaning media were all like "Ooh! Them's be nazis in need of condemning" and the right were like "Fuckin' commies 'n shit!" but me, I thought that ideologies and buzzwords and orange intentions aside, well...

Not being a professional ideologue or agenda-pusher for any camp other than Camp The Asmo, I actually saw the protesting factions and the police and the politicians acting like shit and repressed or self-justified none of it. Trump was not wrong.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Dave

Quote from: Asmodean on August 16, 2017, 05:19:34 AM
Quote from: joeactor on August 15, 2017, 10:55:13 PM
BTW, if you haven't heard, T-Rump just undid everything in his prepared monkey-in-a-suit speech.

He's gone back to "all sides are at fault" and even coined the term "Alt-Left" (which is trending on twitter now)

Disgusting.

BTW, you might want a couple dozen of these stickers:
http://www.sirmitchell.com/product/45-sticker
I'll need to watch the thing, but his initial "on many sides" comment was (probably unintentionally) accurate. The left-leaning media were all like "Ooh! Them's be nazis in need of condemning" and the right were like "Fuckin' commies 'n shit!" but me, I thought that ideologies and buzzwords and orange intentions aside, well...

Not being a professional ideologue or agenda-pusher for any camp other than Camp The Asmo, I actually saw the protesting factions and the police and the politicians acting like shit and repressed or self-justified none of it. Trump was not wrong.
I agree that Trump was "not wrong" in his comment that implied violence, in demonstrations, is wrong regardless of who initiates it. I also think this was not exactly a thought out opinion.

It is just as bad to react with violence, in civil disturbance terms, as to initiate it. This is why I suggested the idea of no direct confrontation but rather "remoted" expression - direct confrontation almost inevitably gives rise to violence.  One wonders about the public and political reactions should an "anti-right" protester have used a car as a murder weapon.

I also think that the best way of causing the starting up of an "alt-left" movement is to start ranting against this, currently, unexpressed aspect.

But Trump definitely seems unable to let go of the shovel.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Asmodean

#779
Yes. That one right there is a perfectly fair assessment, methink.

A couple of things to clear up a little though; When I said "not wrong," it could indeed be seen as true on multiple levels, but in that instance, I was talking about Mr. Trump ever-so-weakly and not-too-directly calling all the contributors to that mess to account. He should. I would throw in an identifier or two, just to be clear who I was talking both to and about, but then... I consider myself to be more eloquent an orator than Mr. Trump.

Also, just like the "regressive left" can be argued to have given birth to the alt-right, so can Mr. Trump's reaction to the actions of that movement be the spark that gives birth to the alt-left. One could, in fact, argue that at some point the birth of that or some other identifier to loosely unify "the Commie-ass factions" is inevitable in the current political climate - not just in the USA, but also in large parts of Europe.

Should that happen, I suggest a Colosseum type of scenario. The Asmo, He can be the bookie.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.