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Anybody Wanna Bat This One?

Started by Sophus, March 30, 2010, 11:05:45 PM

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Sophus

Some Creationist trying to refute the evolution of the horse. Why does he claim "this data is 40 years old" as if that makes it false?

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/horse.html


It seems to have all been arguments taken from this book, which doesn't seem to have gotten good reviews from the scientific community. Surprise, Surprise!
‎"Christian doesn't necessarily just mean good. It just means better." - John Oliver

elliebean

Did he forget how old his creationist 'data' is?  lol
[size=150]â€"Ellie [/size]
You can’t lie to yourself. If you do you’ve only fooled a deluded person and where’s the victory in that?â€"Ricky Gervais

Sophus

I find this part particularly funny for a creationist to say:

QuoteThe okapi is not a horse (or relative of the horse) at all. It is a relative of the giraffe.

Oh, and the author of that book has no scientific training.  :|
‎"Christian doesn't necessarily just mean good. It just means better." - John Oliver

Recusant

Very poor work on that page.  The sources which are cited are weak at best (Peter Hastie*? really?), but the main problem I have with it is the many un-sourced assertions, one prominent example being:

 
Quote from: "url=http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/horse.html]Jesus, Dinosaurs and More[/url]"]The Evolution of the Horse as commonly shown in many textbooks was proven wrong over 40 years ago.

By whom?

Then there is the usual quote mining which seems to be a standard technique for this sort of stuff.  I'm not impressed.

TalkOrigins Archive has a couple of pages that deal with pretty much every point that is brought up by "Jesus, Dinosaurs & More."  Here and here.  And though the page layout of AlphaHorse is a little messed up, Jeffery Rolo has a few articles there that take on many of the same issues.

*"Peter Hastie, B.Juris, B.Th., LTCL, is minister of Ashfield Presbyterian Church in Sydney, Australia, where he has ministered for nine years. He is a regular writer for Australian Presbyterian Living Today."

  You can read Hastie's weak attempt at... wait for it...  AnswersInGenesis.org. :shake:
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


skwurll


Ellainix

Quote from: "Ivan Tudor C McHock"If your faith in god is due to your need to explain the origin of the universe, and you do not apply this same logic to the origin of god, then you are an idiot.

Sophus

Quote from: "Recusant"TalkOrigins Archive has a couple of pages that deal with pretty much every point that is brought up by "Jesus, Dinosaurs & More."  Here and here.  And though the page layout of AlphaHorse is a little messed up, Jeffery Rolo has a few articles there that take on many of the same issues.

Thanks Recusant.
I'm just so mind-boggled by the blatant dishonesty. Their own confusion sometimes confuses me. Yet Jonathan Wells, unlike the other evolutionary horse denying author, has a Ph.D in microbiology. How can he possibly believe half the stuff he writes? He just throws out big sciency words hoping to make it sound credible to some bloke who doesn'y know anything about Biology at all.

Quote from: "url=http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/10/storming_the_beaches_of_norman.html]Jonathan Wells[/url]"]Furthermore, the similarity of HOX genes in so many animal phyla is actually a problem for neo-Darwinism: If evolutionary changes in body plans are due to changes in genes, and flies have HOX genes similar to those in a horse, why is a fly not a horse?

 :brick: There's no way this man is this dumb... is there?
‎"Christian doesn't necessarily just mean good. It just means better." - John Oliver

Squid

Quote from: "Sophus"
Quote from: "url=http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/10/storming_the_beaches_of_norman.html]Jonathan Wells[/url]"]Furthermore, the similarity of HOX genes in so many animal phyla is actually a problem for neo-Darwinism: If evolutionary changes in body plans are due to changes in genes, and flies have HOX genes similar to those in a horse, why is a fly not a horse?

 :brick: There's no way this man is this dumb... is there?

Wells, proof that you can get a Ph.d. and still be an idiot.

MikeTheInfidel

I knew "why is a fly not a horse" sounded really familiar. Sure enough, PZ Myers tore him a new sphincter back in October:
QuoteIt blows my mind, man, it blows my freakin' mind. How can this guy really be this stupid? He has a Ph.D. from UC Berkeley in developmental biology, and he either really doesn't understand basic ideas in the field, or he's maliciously misrepresenting them…he's lying to the audience. He's describing how he so adroitly fielded questions from the audience, including this one from a professor of developmental biology, who was no doubt agitated by the fact that Wells was feeding the audience steaming balls of rancid horseshit. I can't blame her. That was an awesomely dishonest/ignorant performance, and Wells is proud of himself. People should be angry at that fraud.
Read the delicious response here.