Your kids in a godless world

[Siz]

I am trying to get across that a CofE school in this country does not pose any threat to its children from the perspective of an Atheist parent. Not all religious schools are indoctrinating or brainwashing in their teachings.
The fact that we choose to send our children to this school (which is by no means geographically the closest) is a function of its educational excellence, not its religion. If I run the risk of being labled a hypocrite for sending them there whilst being a strong Atheist, so be it. My children's academic education is my main consideration. Their philosophical education is in safe hands at home.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I am trying to get across that a CofE school in this country does not pose any threat to its children from the perspective of an Atheist parent. Not all religious schools are indoctrinating or brainwashing in their teachings.
The fact that we choose to send our children to this school (which is by no means geographically the closest) is a function of its educational excellence, not its religion. If I run the risk of being labled a hypocrite for sending them there whilst being a strong Atheist, so be it. My children's academic education is my main consideration. Their philosophical education is in safe hands at home.

Fair enough.

[Tank]

I am trying to get across that a CofE school in this country does not pose any threat to its children from the perspective of an Atheist parent. Not all religious schools are indoctrinating or brainwashing in their teachings.
The fact that we choose to send our children to this school (which is by no means geographically the closest) is a function of its educational excellence, not its religion. If I run the risk of being labled a hypocrite for sending them there whilst being a strong Atheist, so be it. My children's academic education is my main consideration. Their philosophical education is in safe hands at home.

I think this is a very fair view of moderate Christian schools in the UK.

[Norfolk And Chance]

Something in another thread prompted me to ask a wider audience about this. I wondered if any of you are in relationships with theists (however inactive). And if you have kids, how do you share their spiritual education.

I'll give you my starter for 10...

My wife is a church goer (C of E) and was adamant that she wanted our 2 kids christened. That was fine with me as I know it can help Xtians in later life if they choose to take that path (I'm all for free will as long as it doesn't affect me). I, however, played no part in the ceremony (much to the chargrin of the vicar). The kids are now in an excellent C of E school, courtesy of the church (cheers for that!).

It is slightly awkward knowing that the kids are routinely brainwashed (we all know the drill), and they sometimes come home with Q's about the bible or other religious matters. I enjoy engaging them on this level as it gives me the chance to offer a more balanced view. I do my best be be genuinely impartial, with statements like '...some people think that...', or 'it could also be seen this way:...', or 'maybe that was just a story to illustrate a point'. I am normally able to field any queries without directly contradicting the school. I have never had to answer the killer question though, "What do you believe, Daddy?"...yet. But this is not far off. The older I (or they??) get the harder it seems for me to hold my tongue. Maybe I'll start introducing more searching responses and request rationales for any voiced conclusions. I'm pretty confident that with some gentle encouragement they will draw their own sensible conclusions without me jarring God out from under them at a later date.

Do you think I'm being fair to myself / my wife / my kids?

I wonder how you've dealt with (or are dealing with) this....

In response to the "do you believe in god" question which my eldest has already asked I just said "nope, it's all made up". She did not respond with any anger or confusion or disbelief - neither was there any disappointment, she just took my answer at face value. I think honesty is the best policy. I followed up with "some people want to believe though, and that is up to them"

The funny thing is my wife didn't object to the honesty and bluntness that I told my daughter about god even though she has never stated herself as atheist (even though I think she is now) - yet she will not let me tell our 10 year old that Santa is made up! Because it will spoil everything. Nothing as funny as folk huh

I'll be telling him on Boxing Day so he's got a whole year to get over it (I remember how deflated I was when it was confirmed to me that Santa was a lie, invented to entertain children), I can't be having him going up to the big school next year still believing in Santa. 

[Siz]

In response to the "do you believe in god" question which my eldest has already asked I just said "nope, it's all made up". She did not respond with any anger or confusion or disbelief - neither was there any disappointment, she just took my answer at face value. I think honesty is the best policy. I followed up with "some people want to believe though, and that is up to them"

The funny thing is my wife didn't object to the honesty and bluntness that I told my daughter about god even though she has never stated herself as atheist (even though I think she is now) - yet she will not let me tell our 10 year old that Santa is made up! Because it will spoil everything. Nothing as funny as folk huh

I'll be telling him on Boxing Day so he's got a whole year to get over it (I remember how deflated I was when it was confirmed to me that Santa was a lie, invented to entertain children), I can't be having him going up to the big school next year still believing in Santa. 

Interesting! How old was your eldest when she asked? And did she have anyone else telling her that god DOES exist (school, aunties,TV)?

My eldest (currently 7) is starting to ask more serious questions as he matures, to which I am responding more directly. He hasn't asked me the 'killer' question yet. When he does I know he is ready to hear and understand the implications of the answer. He is already questioning aspects of religion for himself which means I am doing my job. The book on Noah, for example, always raises much hilarity when we examine the reality of it together - and HE brought that up.

I do have to tread a little lightly as my 4yo daughter has just started at the school and is enjoying the songs. Yes, she is learning that God created everything (just as my boy did at the same age), but I believe that conflicting ideas at her age will be harmful. The truth can wait until she reaches sufficient maturity to understand the fallibility of adults.

Interestingly though, my boy did have a great project on dinosaurs last year. And they do teach evolution. So, there seems to be a definite separation between the 'god' bits and the 'science' bits. That must be a tricky line to walk for the school before the kids start trying to rationally unify the concepts. I guess the school does not study in sufficient depth such Biblical detail that would expressly prevent unification.

You've obviously done an excellent job of 'realising' FC for the kids. Nice one! But youve gotta take the rough with the smooth on this one. 

[Norfolk And Chance]

My daughter was about 11 when she asked. I'm not aware of anybody trying to convince that her god does exist, the most she'll have heard about it was at school, plus she used to go to a drama club ran by christians (because she liked drama, not god).

My son believes in god and Santa as a 10 year old because he does not know any better. He goes to a youth group one night a week and this is run by christians, so obviously he believes what they tell him. We don't really talk about god at home (apart from me scuttling off to the computer to rant on) and my wife is very protective of his emotions (long story, but he has some difficulties), so I'm not allowed to crush his view of god with reality. Yet.

[Siz]

My daughter was about 11 when she asked. I'm not aware of anybody trying to convince that her god does exist, the most she'll have heard about it was at school, plus she used to go to a drama club ran by christians (because she liked drama, not god).

My son believes in god and Santa as a 10 year old because he does not know any better. He goes to a youth group one night a week and this is run by christians, so obviously he believes what they tell him. We don't really talk about god at home (apart from me scuttling off to the computer to rant on) and my wife is very protective of his emotions (long story, but he has some difficulties), so I'm not allowed to crush his view of god with reality. Yet.

Ha, we all have our crosses to bare (so to speak)...

There's a good 'family' Dawkins book out called 'The Magic of Reality'. It gets good press (from secular sources). I'll be getting it when mine are a bit older. One for the stocking...?!

[Norfolk And Chance]

I don't really like Dawkins and I don't like the christian view that all atheists are followers of Dawkins, "The god Delusion" is our "bible" and we are only atheists because he lead us into it. He's not really my cup of tea and I became an atheist all by myself.

The assumption from some christians that Dawkins is the atheist leader is typical theistic thinking, where you have to follow an authority figure and be told what you can and can't think

[Siz]

I'm not asking you to worship him t'was just a book recommendation...

It's not like Dawkins is proposing any particular philosophy (that I'm aware of). There's no such thing as Dawkinsism. It's (mostly) science and difficult to take an emotional view of, unless you are offended by his smarmy manner.

I agree about the mindset of the religious that we must 'take a leader'. God forbid that we are independantly free-thinking...

[Heisenberg]

Seems like a lot of people around here aren't fond of Dawkins. I thought 'The God Delusion' was great. It sure as shit isn't my bible, but I'm sure we've all thought of most or all of Dawkins arguments before having read the book. It was just good to see them all put together by a respected scientific mind. Religion aside, he has written several noteworthy books on evolution. I know he is smug, but, can you blame him...

[Sandra Craft]

I know he is smug, but, can you blame him...

And he's hardly alone in smugness, esp. when you start to count in religious spokespeople.  I don't mind Dawkins at all, it's Hitchens I have a problem with.  I don't disagree with him but his manner puts my teeth on edge so I can see where the religious could easily take offense and not bother to consider his point, even if they were otherwise inclined to be open-minded.

[Heisenberg]

I'm not very familiar with Hitchens. Anyone have suggestions where to get started?

[Tank]

I'm not very familiar with Hitchens. Anyone have suggestions where to get started?

YouTube has quite a few interviews that will give a feeling for his style. 

[Siz]

I know he is smug, but, can you blame him...

And he's hardly alone in smugness, esp. when you start to count in religious spokespeople.  I don't mind Dawkins at all, it's Hitchens I have a problem with.  I don't disagree with him but his manner puts my teeth on edge so I can see where the religious could easily take offense and not bother to consider his point, even if they were otherwise inclined to be open-minded.

Yeah, he's not as accessible as Dawkins and has a very classical writing style - not at all in touch with the contemporary man in the street (i.e. me). But I don't think he has any interest in the man in the street - I believe it's all philosophical academia to him. I think that's where Dawkins excels - he likes to preach atheism to the masses and is very good at it. That's why the religious establishment are more afraid of him. He is to atheism what Robert Winston is to child psychology, but not quite as likable.

[Sandra Craft]

I think that's where Dawkins excels - he likes to preach atheism to the masses and is very good at it.

Do you really consider him to be preaching atheism?  I've always thought of it more as defending and explaning atheism.