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Community => Parenting Beyond Belief => Topic started by: WogglebugLovingFilms on December 14, 2016, 06:37:04 AM

Title: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: WogglebugLovingFilms on December 14, 2016, 06:37:04 AM
Does anyone know of any children, or people who have any, who are in or are from foster care, living with foster parents, ect? I am interested in research on this subject for a special purpose. I have heard that many foster children often develop certain fears that are sometimes unusual that may or may not be about the reasons as to why they were placed in the foster care system in the first place, even when it was for the very best of reasons. And also I may be interested in how likely or unlikely it would be for a foster child to become religious whether or not their foster parents were. I'll explain my reasons for this research later.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Asmodean on December 14, 2016, 10:05:54 AM
Well... I know a foster parent. I've met the kids, but I don't know them beyond face and name recognition. Also, I keep in touch with some former group home kids and one former foster kid. My "merry band of strays."

I may offer some limited assistance with your questions if Norway is an applicable area of inquiry. However, I take privacy very seriously and, as such, I will not answer any direct questions of personal nature on behalf of others without their informed consent. I'm quite happy to discuss in general terms though, with no identifying marks of any kind.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 14, 2016, 10:16:40 AM
My grand-aunt adopted a girl before having her own children, and she told her early on that she was adopted. The adopted is a middle-aged adult now and she turned out normal.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 03:34:21 PM
For the record I think that Foster children deserve better than having some atheist as their forster parent. Just saying.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 02, 2017, 03:47:11 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 03:34:21 PM
For the record I think that Foster children deserve better than having some atheist as their forster parent. Just saying.

That certainly looks like bigotry, SisterAgatha. Do you think it is? If you don't think so, can you explain why it isn't bigotry? Do you think that being raised by atheists is harmful to children? If so, can you explain why you think that?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 04:10:31 PM
Its harmful because it denies them access to God.

Part of me feels children should be taken away from atheists, placed in Catholic care centers and adopted by pious Catholics.

That way they won't be denied God or made to view him in an angry and false light
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dave on October 02, 2017, 04:17:22 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 04:10:31 PM
Its harmful because it denies them access to God.

Part of me feels children should be taken away from atheists, placed in Catholic care centers and adopted by pious Catholics.

That way they won't be denied God or made to view him in an angry and false light

Well, I think it gives the kids more of a chance to read and research for themsrlves and make their own choice between free thought or indoctrination. Not saying there aren't rampant antitheists out there and I feel as much against giving kids to them as giving them to the tender, but probably equally as  restrictive, care of theists.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 02, 2017, 04:21:44 PM
"Sister"
(https://m.popkey.co/188855/wqWLz.gif)
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Davin on October 02, 2017, 04:53:05 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 04:10:31 PM
Its harmful because it denies them access to God.
I thought god was every where. How strong is man who can overpower a god.

Quote from: SisterAgathaPart of me feels children should be taken away from atheists, placed in Catholic care centers and adopted by pious Catholics.
Because Catholics have never ill treated children....

Quote from: SisterAgathaThat way they won't be denied God or made to view him in an angry and false light
Or see god in an honest light, am I right?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 02, 2017, 05:30:00 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 04:10:31 PM
Its harmful because it denies them access to God.

OK, thank you for at least responding to part of my post. Why did you ignore my first question, SisterAgatha? I'm going to speculate that it's because you don't want to confront your own position. You'd rather not think about whether it's bigoted to want to keep children who need a good home from having such a home if it's the home of atheists. You don't want to acknowledge that atheists are just as capable as Christians of loving and giving the very best care possible to foster children. Instead you focus on one particular thing that you happen to think is very important, never mind the fact that an atheist household can be a great place for a child to grow up in.

Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 04:10:31 PMPart of me feels children should be taken away from atheists, placed in Catholic care centers and adopted by pious Catholics.

Pious Catholics are already able to adopt children, SisterAgatha. Yet there are many children who don't have families. What possible reason do you have to think that keeping atheists from adopting children will improve that situation?

As for your idea of taking children away from loving families just because the parents happen to be atheist, that is simply disgusting, but it's certainly in line with a long-standing disregard for human decency that has been a part of the Catholic church for its entire existence. Congratulations on upholding that tradition. :sadnod:

Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 04:10:31 PMThat way they won't be denied God or made to view him in an angry and false light

First, many people who grew up in Catholic households became atheists. In the online atheist census (http://www.atheistcensus.com/) 29.6% of respondents are ex-Catholics, while all other Christian denominations account for 35.1%.

(https://i.imgur.com/wZqO1gk.png)

Second, your prejudice is showing. You're assuming that atheists view your god in an "angry and false light." You're also assuming that a child raised in an atheist household is being 'denied God.' Do you actually believe that your god is incapable of reaching out to a child? That unless a child is indoctrinated by Catholic parents, the child will never be able to hear your god speaking to them? Do you think your god is that feeble?

Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Look. God can of course reach out to people and invite him to join his one true Church.

Even the Pope says you atheists can go to heaven. Im not so sure about that, but who am I to argue with the Pope.

I think you guys are snarky and entertaining.... but I don't think children be raised in a household that doesn't emphasize good morals. Im sorry I don't.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 02, 2017, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Look. God can of course reach out to people and invite him to join his one true Church.

Even the Pope says you atheists can go to heaven. Im not so sure about that, but who am I to argue with the Pope.

I think you guys are snarky and entertaining.... but I don't think children be raised in a household that doesn't emphasize good morals. Im sorry I don't.

The Catholic church doesn't have a monopoly on "good morals" SisterAgatha. Far from it.

So far you've failed utterly to justify your position. You've completely ignored my questions about what appear to be nothing but expressions of bigotry on your part. You are free to do so, but that leaves me to draw my own conclusions, and they aren't in the least complimentary to you.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dave on October 02, 2017, 06:58:48 PM
Quote from: Recusant on October 02, 2017, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Look. God can of course reach out to people and invite him to join his one true Church.

Even the Pope says you atheists can go to heaven. Im not so sure about that, but who am I to argue with the Pope.

I think you guys are snarky and entertaining.... but I don't think children be raised in a household that doesn't emphasize good morals. Im sorry I don't.

The Catholic church doesn't have a monopoly on "good morals" SisterAgatha. Far from it.

So far you've failed utterly to justify your position. You've completely ignored my questions about what appear to be nothing but expressions of bigotry on your part. You are free to do so, but that leaves me to draw my own conclusions, and they aren't in the least complimentary to you.
And doing an in depth analysis of of any given million professed carholics I woukd think stands a bloody good chance of finding a similar spread from "good" to "evil", from moral to immoral, from honest to dudhinest etc as with a similar group of any other belief or non-belief system.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Tank on October 02, 2017, 07:01:45 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 03:34:21 PM
For the record I think that Foster children deserve better than having some atheist as their forster parent. Just saying.

This is about as good as an example of trolling as one could find.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 02, 2017, 07:02:04 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Look. God can of course reach out to people and invite him to join his one true Church.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/fBhuHECbMz5IY/giphy.webp)

Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
Even the Pope says you atheists can go to heaven. Im not so sure about that, but who am I to argue with the Pope.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/8104cc1f986a22afc338f460485ea2ab/tenor.gif)

Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 06:34:46 PM
I think you guys are snarky and entertaining.... but I don't think children be raised in a household that doesn't emphasize good morals. Im sorry I don't.
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi0.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fmasonry%2F000%2F733%2F910%2F7a2.gif&hash=7b81b009722b81390dd0d4aeab3595366f3ae254)
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 02, 2017, 08:16:51 PM
SisterAgatha, why did you come here? Maybe it's time to think about how much you want to stay here.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dave on October 02, 2017, 08:22:59 PM
(https://imgur.com/skkoQnT.jpg)

Damn, can't find anything in the router instructions about using aerosol sprays to clean forums up!
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dragonia on October 02, 2017, 08:43:22 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 03:34:21 PM
For the record I think that Foster children deserve better than having some atheist as their forster parent. Just saying.
Interesting, sister Agatha, have you ever actually known an atheist? We can be quite loving and good parents, believe it or not. Apparently your one objection to atheist parents is that they lack the willingness to introduce the children to your magical god.
Shall we go through the thousands of cases of mental, physical and sexual abuse of children that have taken place in Christian homes by Christians? How about the sexual abuse perpetrated by "you peoples'" priests and nuns? Shall we talk about them? Maybe in Catholic schools? Where the kids are supposed to be learning about your god, but instead learn how to keep their mouths shut about what's done to them in the priest's office.
No, you Probably don't want to go down this path. Do you?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Don't get huffy with me please Ma'am.

I just think children at a critical age need some religious foundation in their lives.

Whether they are Catholic,Jewish, Moslem or Protestant they need that God business early on in some form.

Atheists..idk..they seem sort of unparental. Like they just like to sit around, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and making snide remarks all the time.

They don't seem full of love and fun the way people alive with the Holy spirit can.

They just seem sort of morose, sad and muddled. Any religion is better than none at all..especially when little ones are concerned!
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 02, 2017, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Don't get huffy with me please Ma'am.

I just think children at a critical age need some religious foundation in their lives.

Whether they are Catholic,Jewish, Moslem or Protestant they need that God business early on in some form.

Atheists..idk..they seem sort of unparental. Like they just like to sit around, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and making snide remarks all the time.

They don't seem full of love and fun the way people alive with the Holy spirit can.

They just seem sort of morose, sad and muddled. Any religion is better than none at all..especially when little ones are concerned!

Your caricatured view of atheists is inaccurate, SisterAgatha. It's no better than somebody saying that all blacks are lazy welfare spongers.

I don't expect you'd have much respect for an atheist who tarred the entire Catholic church as pederasts and sadists. Yet you seem perfectly content to wallow in your prejudiced view of atheists. Why is that? Perhaps you're purposefully trying to make Catholics look small minded and ignorant, is that it?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dragonia on October 02, 2017, 10:38:10 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Don't get huffy with me please Ma'am.

I just think children at a critical age need some religious foundation in their lives.

Whether they are Catholic,Jewish, Moslem or Protestant they need that God business early on in some form.
If I had the smallest inkling of doubt before, it is gone now. A nun would never make this statement.
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Atheists..idk..they seem sort of unparental. Like they just like to sit around, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes and making snide remarks all the time.

They don't seem full of love and fun the way people alive with the Holy spirit can.

They just seem sort of morose, sad and muddled. Any religion is better than none at all..especially when little ones are concerned!
You are speaking from absolute ignorance. You really ought to get to know a few atheists as people before you go talking out of your ass like this, making totally unfounded assumptions and lumping atheists into a big drunk cesspool. Nice.
Its because of "people like you" that I have kept my beliefs to myself and nobody around me even knows that I am an atheist, because they all think like you do, and I don't want people shunning my kids because of my unbelief. The funny thing is, that I blend right in, because I am a good momma, more strict than many Christians, my family goes to all of our baseball and soccer games and we love and support each other. I am more patient and less back-stabbing or gossipy than any Christian mom I know. My kids get straight A's and are involved in clubs and activities. And I fucking BAKE. Yeah.... does that fit your atheist image in your tiny little imagination?  Would my kids be better off in my Christian neighbor's house where their dad yells constantly and their mom spanks them for everything and they're scared of everything? Oh, but they go to church every Sunday!
Yes, I'm gonna get huffy. Because you say really stupid insulting things.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 10:49:49 PM
Forgive me. You have shattered my stereotypes. I was unaware you had any children. Forgive me.


Those Christians you describe sound like a bunch of lazy louts. They'd better get themselves to confession.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 02, 2017, 10:50:46 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on October 02, 2017, 08:16:51 PM
SisterAgatha, why did you come here? Maybe it's time to think about how much you want to stay here.

I shouldn't have bothered, it seems thinking is not your strong suit, SisterAgatha.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 12:19:10 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 10:49:49 PM
Forgive me. You have shattered my stereotypes. I was unaware you had any children. Forgive me.
...
I have 3 kids as well, can I get all huffy?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/140lcuYKYpVWGA/giphy.gif)
Will you apologize to me too?

Wait, I think I'll have a drink, and go smoke something first, and then...I'll get all huffy.  :notsure:
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on October 03, 2017, 02:15:50 AM
Sorry, but Sister just has to be fake.  She sounds like a Catholic version of Landover Baptist Church. Just a little too over the top.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 03, 2017, 02:26:47 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 03, 2017, 02:15:50 AM
Sorry, but Sister just has to be fake.  She sounds like a Catholic version of Landover Baptist Church. Just a little too over the top.

I and others share your skepticism. However it seems that you have a higher regard for Catholics than I do. I grew up among them and can vouch for the fact that the views she's expressed are not particularly exceptional.

That isn't to say that SisterAgatha is who and what she says she is (as opposed to a puerile troll), because we have no way of being sure. Several statements she's made stink of the underside of a bridge. If that stink becomes too strong, at the least her threads will be dumped in the troll board along with those of such anti-luminaries as Pahu.




ETA: I wonder what kind of shampoo she uses?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Icarus on October 03, 2017, 02:27:37 AM
Dear Sister Agatha, you have stepped into a pile of shit, perhaps without knowing that you have done so.   The  fact is that atheist or humanist parents are consistently and reliably able to develop more intelligent and morally responsible children is a matter of fact that religionists cannot seem to get through their thick skulls.

That Xtians, Muslims, Mormans,  Catholics, and the rest, have an irrational and completely unsupported belief in ancient fairy tales is a sad commentary about the  basic intelligence of Homo Sapiens.  That you and your legions of delusional individuals choose to believe that people whose minds are not in strict concert with yours is a crime against the human race is a blight, A swarm of locusts. That you have some ill conceived, nay ignorantly conceived, notion that non believers are some how less morally developed is, or should be, a prosecutable criminal offense.

I will match Dragonia with any of your catholic captive believers any day, any time.  That goes for any of the other mothers that are not of the bible belt, brain dead,  ignorant Jesus Freaks who have never actually read their bible but depend on hustler preachers, or priests, to tell them how to live...and incidentally,  tell them that they must tithe or burn in hell.



Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Sandra Craft on October 03, 2017, 04:57:45 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 03, 2017, 02:15:50 AM
Sorry, but Sister just has to be fake.  She sounds like a Catholic version of Landover Baptist Church. Just a little too over the top.

I've been sitting here wondering that, and also wondering (if she's for real) her belief that any religion is better for kids than no religion would apply to, say, Pantheists, Satanists, Voudoun, Shinto, Wicca, etc.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 05:09:25 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 03, 2017, 04:57:45 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 03, 2017, 02:15:50 AM
Sorry, but Sister just has to be fake.  She sounds like a Catholic version of Landover Baptist Church. Just a little too over the top.

I've been sitting here wondering that, and also wondering (if she's for real) her belief that any religion is better for kids than no religion would apply to, say, Pantheists, Satanists, Voudoun, Shinto, Wicca, etc.


Not a fan of any of those religions you mentioned. For starters those aren't even developed creeds really. They just vaguely believe in the spirits. There isn't much of a theology.

Now I shall rank thee "acceptable" religions.

1.Protestnatism: Really just the bare bones version of Catholicism really. It's as if they couldn't afford a nice church and 7 sacraments or a priest, so they have their services in a great big gymnasium. Fun fact! Protestanism is  denomination of Catholicism, not Christianity. There were no protestants or "Faithful word Life" churches before 1530 or so.

Protestants are lucky in that their baptisms are in fact valid. They just better get Catholic quick

(Just a note. I am not going to rank the Orthodox. They are Catholic for all intents and purposes despite their protestations to country)

2. Judaism. I actually am fond of this one. What with their ancient looking buildings, mysterious chants and robes, they really are one Messiah  away from being Catholic. There are ever so many similarities. The Jews are also a very funny and clever bunch! I can see why God "Chose" them!

3. Islam. OK I guess but a little scary at times. I suppose my nuns habit has a bit in common with a hijab, but idk.... Isn't it likely that instead of the angel gabriel dictating the quran to Muhammad over the course of 20 years, he instead just plagiarized bits of judaism and Christianity, gave it an Arabic twist and voila! Islam?!

4. Taoism/Confucianism/Buddhism: I like these religions and they are very peaceful seeming. They don't seem to center around a specific deity but are sort of "Power of positive thinking faiths." I did a little eastern meditation and I felt so peaceful inside.

I actually enjoy other religions and enjoy seeing how they stack up against the faith Jesus established himself.

Do you see why I think any religion at all is important? It provides sort of a "template" of some sort for living your life and viewing the world. I don't think its important that some one "believe" or "know" every last darned thing the Church teaches at first. It's a lot to come to terms with! You need time!

But the framework..the message of religions are golden. That is why I am so darned insistent that a child has a quality faith life at home!

You might disagree.. but at least you know why I think this way.

Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Sandra Craft on October 03, 2017, 05:28:55 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 05:09:25 AM

Not a fan of any of those religions you mentioned. For starters those aren't even developed creeds really. They just vaguely believe in the spirits. There isn't much of a theology

Shinto isn't a developed creed?  Shinto (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinto)

Pantheists believe in spirits?  Pantheism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism)

QuoteDo you see why I think any religion at all is important? It provides sort of a "template" of some sort for living your life and viewing the world.

You keep writing "any religion", but you eliminate a large number of religions.  I don't think you know what the word "any" means.  As far as a template for living your life and viewing the world, that can easily be gotten outside of religion.

Just one for instance:  Humanism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism)
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: jumbojak on October 03, 2017, 05:33:43 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 05:09:25 AM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 03, 2017, 04:57:45 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on October 03, 2017, 02:15:50 AM
Sorry, but Sister just has to be fake.  She sounds like a Catholic version of Landover Baptist Church. Just a little too over the top.

I've been sitting here wondering that, and also wondering (if she's for real) her belief that any religion is better for kids than no religion would apply to, say, Pantheists, Satanists, Voudoun, Shinto, Wicca, etc.


Not a fan of any of those religions you mentioned. For starters those aren't even developed creeds really. They just vaguely believe in the spirits. There isn't much of a theology.

Now I shall rank thee "acceptable" religions.

1.Protestnatism: Really just the bare bones version of Catholicism really. It's as if they couldn't afford a nice church and 7 sacraments or a priest, so they have their services in a great big gymnasium. Fun fact! Protestanism is  denomination of Catholicism, not Christianity. There were no protestants or "Faithful word Life" churches before 1530 or so.

Protestants are lucky in that their baptisms are in fact valid. They just better get Catholic quick

(Just a note. I am not going to rank the Orthodox. They are Catholic for all intents and purposes despite their protestations to country)

2. Judaism. I actually am fond of this one. What with their ancient looking buildings, mysterious chants and robes, they really are one Messiah  away from being Catholic. There are ever so many similarities. The Jews are also a very funny and clever bunch! I can see why God "Chose" them!

3. Islam. OK I guess but a little scary at times. I suppose my nuns habit has a bit in common with a hijab, but idk.... Isn't it likely that instead of the angel gabriel dictating the quran to Muhammad over the course of 20 years, he instead just plagiarized bits of judaism and Christianity, gave it an Arabic twist and voila! Islam?!

4. Taoism/Confucianism/Buddhism: I like these religions and they are very peaceful seeming. They don't seem to center around a specific deity but are sort of "Power of positive thinking faiths." I did a little eastern meditation and I felt so peaceful inside.

I actually enjoy other religions and enjoy seeing how they stack up against the faith Jesus established himself.

Do you see why I think any religion at all is important? It provides sort of a "template" of some sort for living your life and viewing the world. I don't think its important that some one "believe" or "know" every last darned thing the Church teaches at first. It's a lot to come to terms with! You need time!

But the framework..the message of religions are golden. That is why I am so darned insistent that a child has a quality faith life at home!

You might disagree.. but at least you know why I think this way.

That's the most asinine thing I've read in quite some time. Protestants are a Catholic denomination? I guess that's why they fought a number of wars, persecuted Catholics for centuries, reject Catholic doctrine, and why many consider Catholics to be non-Christian polytheists who follow the Pope and Saints before Jesus.

Might I ask which church school you happen to be affiliated with or, perhaps, which diocese your school is in?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Hear hear!
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:07:07 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 02, 2017, 09:49:51 PM
Don't get huffy with me please Ma'am.
....

Trolling again.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: No one on October 03, 2017, 06:08:48 AM
Apparently, the only thing sister mary gremlin likes more than absurdity, is crack.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 03, 2017, 07:05:00 AM
Quote from: No one on October 03, 2017, 06:08:48 AM
Apparently, the only thing sister mary gremlin likes more than absurdity, is crack.

That remark is a personal attack, No one. If SisterAgatha is actually a troll, you've just helped her succeed. I ask you to please respect the civility rule of this site.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Hear hear!
User Ranks
Meaning of post #6666: Has finally learned to not feed the trolls.
:sad sigh:
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dragonia on October 03, 2017, 02:08:25 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Hear hear!
User Ranks
Meaning of post #6666: Has finally learned to not feed the trolls.
:sad sigh:
Now THIS is a great accomplishment! Both of them. :dance:  :devil2:
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Biggus Dickus on October 03, 2017, 05:28:20 PM
Quote from: Dragonia on October 03, 2017, 02:08:25 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Hear hear!
User Ranks
Meaning of post #6666: Has finally learned to not feed the trolls.
:sad sigh:
Now THIS is a great accomplishment! Both of them. :dance:  :devil2:

:lynch: We should have a party for this as it is quite spectacular! :lynch:




So back in February of this year here in Michigan a three day old baby girl died after her "Christian" parents refused medical treatment for her.

'God ... makes no mistakes': Warned baby could die, couple rejected treatment, police say. (http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2017/09/28/god-makes-no-mistakes-warned-baby-could-police-say-lansing-couple-rejected-treatment-newborn-who-die/707386001/)

QuoteA Lansing woman refused to seek medical treatment for her newborn daughter even after a midwife warned that the infant's jaundice could lead to brain damage or death, a police detective testified last week in court.

The mother told the midwife her baby was fine, and that "God ... makes no mistakes," the detective said.

Two days later the infant was dead.

Infant's name was Abigail.

QuoteDr. Patrick Hansma, a medical examiner at Sparrow Hospital, later conducted an autopsy and found that Abigail died from unconjugated hyperbilirubinemia and kernicterus. Both conditions are related to jaundice.

"He said if treated, most likely she would've been alive," the detective testified.

QuoteRachel and Joshua Piland, 36, also said they understood the newborn's symptoms but chose to "believe in the word of God over the symptoms," court records show.

QuoteThe couple said they're members of the Free Saints Assembly Church in Lansing and don't believe in medical treatment beyond basic first aid, according to the records.


The murdering couple are out on bond currently while they await trial, and two of their other children who were placed in child protective services could have been returned to the couple this summer, but the parent's rejected the custody because they refused to comply with a judge's order banning "physical discipline."

Couple charged in newborn's death opted for 'physical discipline' over custody of 2 other children
(http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/2017/10/03/lansing-couple-newborn-death-refused-order-banning-physical-discipline/722940001/)

Does anything else really need to be said on this matter and this totally ridiculous and outrageous thread? Seriously, as a Father of two grown children I find the OP's comments not only insulting, but also infuriating and lacking any real meaning or serious discourse other than to demean us as atheists.








Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Davin on October 03, 2017, 05:43:22 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-ireland-catholic-orphange-mass-grave-20170303-story.html

QuoteA mass grave containing the remains of babies and young children has been discovered at a former Catholic orphanage in Ireland, government-appointed investigators announced Friday in a finding that offered the first conclusive proof following a historian's efforts to trace the fates of nearly 800 children who perished there.
[...]
That was a common, but ill-documented practice at such Catholic-run facilities amid high child mortality rates in early 20th century Ireland.

Do we even need to get into all the child molesters protected by the church?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 03, 2017, 06:11:56 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Hear hear!
User Ranks
Meaning of post #6666: Has finally learned to not feed the trolls.
:sad sigh:

Done.  :D
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dave on October 03, 2017, 06:12:01 PM
A friend of mine was beaten by the nuns at her residential school and sexually abused by the priest. This was after asked for help because her father had abused her also.

It severely affected her life, though she still managed to become the manager of a local council nursery where abused and neglected children had been officially placed in care. The kids adored her.

Though she hated the RCC greatly she kept to her xtian beliefs - but only set foot in churches for the marriages of friends etc. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say she keot her xtian values.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: Recusant on October 03, 2017, 06:11:56 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Hear hear!
User Ranks
Meaning of post #6666: Has finally learned to not feed the trolls.
:sad sigh:

Done.  :D

:frolic:
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:09:46 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: Recusant on October 03, 2017, 06:11:56 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 02, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I guess it's time for me to ignore, the troll.
Hear hear!
User Ranks
Meaning of post #6666: Has finally learned to not feed the trolls.
:sad sigh:

Done.  :D

:frolic:

You guys are funny.  :lol:

Tank, is that a hungry troll? (Your avatar)
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.


Can someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Davin on October 03, 2017, 08:15:34 PM
I mean, it's not the worst troll. I almost makes me want to respond to it. I probably would if it could provide even the slightest appearance of a civil discussion.

But I don't mind talking to other people about some topics the troll brings up.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:24:16 PM
Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2017, 08:15:34 PM
I mean, it's not the worst troll. I almost makes me want to respond to it...

I know what you mean, Davin.

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=283;type=avatar)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Bc1hpp7uRZS12/giphy.gif)

:grin:

Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:27:35 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:09:46 PM
....

Tank, is that a hungry troll? (Your avatar)

It's Fizzgig from The Dark Crystal.

Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:33:10 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.


Can someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

It adds nothing to growing up except myths dressed up as truth.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:37:25 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:27:35 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:09:46 PM
....

Tank, is that a hungry troll? (Your avatar)

It's Fizzgig from The Dark Crystal.


What the...!?  :lol:
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
It's a good film.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
It's a good film.
If you say so.  :shifty:
I hope it's better than the movie Davin suggested, the one with the man riding a buffalo.  ;D
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Dave on October 03, 2017, 09:10:44 PM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.

Can someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

Because, apart from the traditional "authority" it has taken upon itself over the centuries (which is now fading away in many European countries) it is not necessary. Originally it was probably just the codification the rules set out by the leaders to ensure the tribe had a chance of survival. Basically, "You look after me and mine and I will look after you and yours - just don't do silly or nasty things. OK?"  Of course, human nature bent that into a pretzel pretty fast . . . There is power and riches to be aquired out of that idea! Do the really organised churches aquired power and riches.

If course a lot of people broke the rules, a lot of those being the ones that were supposed to enforce them. The basic set if rules probably predate Bible.v1, preserving the tribe is a survival imperstive, all the added crap is superfluous and unecessary.

Men in medieval frocks, or even smart suits, standing up front conducting songs etc are not really needed - what is needed is a decent, pragmstic, education system, including responsible parenting skills. But, in a near theocratic society there is little chance of that.

You may possibly be a troll, Aggie, but thanks for the oppotunities to find new ways to reiterate the arguments!
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Davin on October 03, 2017, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on October 03, 2017, 08:42:21 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 03, 2017, 08:38:35 PM
It's a good film.
If you say so.  :shifty:
I hope it's better than the movie Davin suggested, the one with the man riding a buffalo.  ;D
I don't know if it's better, there weren't any buffaloes (let alone men riding them), in The dark Crystal.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Sandra Craft on October 04, 2017, 12:34:53 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.

Yes, a moral framework is important but you don't need religion specifically for that.  Morality and ethics are not the exclusive property of religion.

QuoteCan someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

Religion is not unimportant to a child's upbringing, it just isn't important either.  Because religion doesn't provide any benefits that can't be gotten elsewhere, it's an optional item -- like a belief in Santa Claus growing up.  Fine if you had it, but you're not missing anything if you didn't. 
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Sandra Craft on October 04, 2017, 12:35:33 AM
Quote from: Davin on October 03, 2017, 08:15:34 PM
I mean, it's not the worst troll. I almost makes me want to respond to it. I probably would if it could provide even the slightest appearance of a civil discussion.

But I don't mind talking to other people about some topics the troll brings up.

A sensible approach.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Bad Penny II on October 04, 2017, 11:22:15 AM
So what if a kid doesn't buy the Christian bullshit?  All the morality is built on,,, bullshit.
I vaguely remember as an adolescent hypocrisy bothering me, I've got over it but I think the young are still bothered by it.
The public schools in Oz have a scripture class every week, if you opt out you can go to the library.  Some would like to offer ethics classes for non believers but some religiosities object for reasons; of control I suppose.

Why not provide religion as a base for raising children?
It doesn't explain the world satisfactorily for some kids, instead of be given guidance they can accept they get crap, I mean, I could have, I could have been a proper caring human if it wasn't those godlies.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Davin on October 04, 2017, 03:09:41 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 04, 2017, 12:34:53 AM
Quote from: SisterAgatha on October 03, 2017, 08:10:51 PM
Look.. I realize that sometimes people of religious faith aren't the most ideal.

Humans are humans and fall short all the time. I just feel the whole moral framework is important.

Yes, a moral framework is important but you don't need religion specifically for that.  Morality and ethics are not the exclusive property of religion.
I really don't get how theists after all the horrible shit religious people have done in the name of their religion while citing their religious texts, keep trying the claim that those without religion have no morals. This troll aside, it's not uncommon in real people.

Quote from: BooksCatsEt
QuoteCan someone tell me why religion itself is unimportant in a childs upbringing? Not religious extremism...but religion generally?

Religion is not unimportant to a child's upbringing, it just isn't important either.  Because religion doesn't provide any benefits that can't be gotten elsewhere, it's an optional item -- like a belief in Santa Claus growing up.  Fine if you had it, but you're not missing anything if you didn't.
Religious teachings also provide many cases of false information. For example, how long was from the discovery that the Earth was not the center of everything and when the Catholic church finally accepted reality? And in all that time, the religious teachings were wrong. So not only does it not provide any benefits, but it provides "answers" that are demonstrably wrong, which is harmful in my opinion.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Bad Penny II on October 04, 2017, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: Davin on October 04, 2017, 03:09:41 PMbut it provides "answers" that are demonstrably wrong, which is harmful in my opinion.

Ye
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Sandra Craft on October 04, 2017, 11:19:48 PM
Quote from: Davin on October 04, 2017, 03:09:41 PM
Religious teachings also provide many cases of false information. For example, how long was from the discovery that the Earth was not the center of everything and when the Catholic church finally accepted reality? And in all that time, the religious teachings were wrong. So not only does it not provide any benefits, but it provides "answers" that are demonstrably wrong, which is harmful in my opinion.

I believe the Sister was focusing on the bible's moral teachings -- don't kill, don't steal, don't break your word -- rather than the avalanche of facts about time and nature that it gets wrong. 

Of course, those moral teachings still have to be heavily cherry-picked and are questionable in my opinion.  For instance: don't murder because god says only he gets to kill indiscriminately and you'll be horribly punished for poaching on his private rights.  This is moral instruction thru mindless obedience and fear of punishment.

I think, since we need to encourage kids emphatic tendencies anyway, why not bend that twig early and start out teaching morality based on the golden rule (much older than bible teachings) and, yes, self-interest: everyone enjoys being alive as much as you do and it would be bad to deprive anyone of life.  Also a place where people ran around randomly killing would not be safe for you to live in.  (We can get into the weeds about self-defense, crazy people, terrorists and guns later)

A little reading about Humanist morality: Better without God (https://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php/articles/7670)
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Recusant on October 04, 2017, 11:55:42 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 04, 2017, 11:19:48 PMI believe the Sister was focusing on the bible's moral teachings -- don't kill, don't steal, don't break your word -- rather than the avalanche of facts about time and nature that it gets wrong. 

Of course, those moral teachings still have to be heavily cherry-picked and are questionable in my opinion. 

That cherry picking is one of the most problematic parts of Christian morality. The Bible offers justification for many different approaches to morality, as history shows us. Some unequivocally vile world views and actions have come directly from the Bible, and continue to do so.
Title: Re: Children in Foster Care?
Post by: Davin on October 05, 2017, 03:56:02 PM
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on October 04, 2017, 11:19:48 PM
Quote from: Davin on October 04, 2017, 03:09:41 PM
Religious teachings also provide many cases of false information. For example, how long was from the discovery that the Earth was not the center of everything and when the Catholic church finally accepted reality? And in all that time, the religious teachings were wrong. So not only does it not provide any benefits, but it provides "answers" that are demonstrably wrong, which is harmful in my opinion.

I believe the Sister was focusing on the bible's moral teachings -- don't kill, don't steal, don't break your word -- rather than the avalanche of facts about time and nature that it gets wrong. 

Of course, those moral teachings still have to be heavily cherry-picked and are questionable in my opinion.  For instance: don't murder because god says only he gets to kill indiscriminately and you'll be horribly punished for poaching on his private rights.  This is moral instruction thru mindless obedience and fear of punishment.

I think, since we need to encourage kids emphatic tendencies anyway, why not bend that twig early and start out teaching morality based on the golden rule (much older than bible teachings) and, yes, self-interest: everyone enjoys being alive as much as you do and it would be bad to deprive anyone of life.  Also a place where people ran around randomly killing would not be safe for you to live in.  (We can get into the weeds about self-defense, crazy people, terrorists and guns later)

A little reading about Humanist morality: Better without God (https://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php/articles/7670)
There are many a logical problem with Christian "morality."

In one case, the god is put up as where morality comes from. And the god killed all but 8 people on the planet. Following the idea that nothing that god does is evil, then what justification does a religious person have to say that genocide is evil when that was the practice of their supremely moral being? And they say that children are supposed to follow the example of this god? That is seriously fucked up.