Happy Atheist Forum

Getting To Know You => Introductions => Topic started by: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM

Title: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Magdalena on February 19, 2018, 03:58:38 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!
Hello, LightLim, welcome.  :computerwave:
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: hermes2015 on February 19, 2018, 04:09:35 AM
Hi LightLim. Always good get new new blood at HAF. Are you a scientist as well?

Regarding spirituality, you will not find too much of it here; what you will find is plenty of Gemütlichkeit.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Tank on February 19, 2018, 06:24:29 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!
Hi

Welcome to HAF.

My take on spirituality is that our evolution favoured some behaviours. Spirituality was one result. Are there spirits or a soul? No evidence to support the existance of such things.

Regards
Chris
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Dave on February 19, 2018, 07:09:56 AM
Greetings, LightLim!

"Spirituality" is too attached to the supernatural to be other than contentious here.  However, for me, "spirit" is a form of emotion (in low/high spirits) or a bonding ethos (esprit de corps). As "spiritual." it may also be something approaching love, a feeling invoked by a scene, a picture, music etc., a sort of transcendantal experience.

Whatever, it is entirely within the human mind, no external supernatural entities involved (because there are no supernatural entities, internal or external, anyway.)
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Bluenose on February 19, 2018, 12:25:24 PM
G'day LightLim!

Spirituality for me is sitting on a river bank, looking at the gum trees, listening to the dawn chorus of all the birds. Nothing supernatural about it, but it is awesome!
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: xSilverPhinx on February 20, 2018, 10:25:17 PM
Welcome to the forum, LightLim!
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Icarus on February 20, 2018, 11:57:52 PM
Welcome to our cozy little nest LightLim. 

My notion of spiritualism is similar to Blunose's.  For me it is to be in a small noiseless boat, in a calm lake or stream, at sunrise.  Drinking in the wonder of a beautiful, tranquil, unhurried, natural world is one of the lovely pleasures of life. 

Believing that I can see, hear, or feel the presence of magic men or angels in the sky....not so much.  Most of we HAFers fall pretty much into that latter category.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Recusant on February 21, 2018, 03:11:53 AM
Hello and welcome to HAF, LightLim. Pardon my curiosity, but is the "Lim" part of your username short for "liminal" or "limit" or something else entirely?

As for your question, I agree with Tank's answer. Might as well turn it around: what is your understanding of spirituality?

I hope that you enjoy your time reading and posting here.  :spagwelcome:
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Magdalena on February 22, 2018, 04:58:04 AM
LightLim...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/vnFB72LzHtO4o/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Magdalena on February 22, 2018, 05:51:02 AM
Quote from: Recusant on February 21, 2018, 03:11:53 AM
Hello and welcome to HAF, LightLim. Pardon my curiosity, but is the "Lim" part of your username short for "liminal" or "limit" or something else entirely?
...
I'm thinking something else entirely... :notsure:
Light Lim-a-rita.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSoyxKP4I7j0lT9qqt7GXjiDj-Y-hnln0_h9L8QcLlUtKJT3v50Q)
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Davin on February 22, 2018, 01:39:31 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/Fv4dxS00tCV68/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Dragonia on February 25, 2018, 02:31:41 AM
Hi LightLim!
I haven't really thought through my definition of "spirituality" since I de-converted (it's been a while, so maybe it's time to think about my new definition). So I have no good answer for that, but maybe I'll get back to you!  ;)
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: OldGit on February 25, 2018, 09:40:33 AM
Welcome, LL!  I hope you find the kind of discussion here that you'd like.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Rift Zone on March 01, 2018, 04:22:59 AM
Hi ya,  LightLim! 

Looking forward to seeing how your conversations unfold. 
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AM
Quote from: Recusant on February 21, 2018, 03:11:53 AM
Hello and welcome to HAF, LightLim. Pardon my curiosity, but is the "Lim" part of your username short for "liminal" or "limit" or something else entirely?

As for your question, I agree with Tank's answer. Might as well turn it around: what is your understanding of spirituality?

I hope that you enjoy your time reading and posting here.  :spagwelcome:

Thanks everyone for the warm greetings.  :). Hehe, such fun speculations! Lim is simply my last name.

On spirituality, I'd say every being who searches for answers to who they are and why they're here are spiritual. What say you all?


Quote from: hermes2015 on February 19, 2018, 04:09:35 AM
Hi LightLim. Always good get new new blood at HAF. Are you a scientist as well?

Regarding spirituality, you will not find too much of it here; what you will find is plenty of Gemütlichkeit.

Aren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Dave on March 03, 2018, 06:09:21 AM
QuoteAren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?

Hmm, questioning is good, LightLim, but are not testing, and proving, for "reality" also required. The answers many find are so often based on single events or mistaken or misunderstood evidence.

Then we have to qualify "reality" as something that will be universaly and objectively experienced/perceived.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: hermes2015 on March 03, 2018, 07:34:54 AM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AM
Aren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?

I meant whether you were working as a professional scientist.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Magdalena on March 03, 2018, 08:08:07 AM
Quote from: hermes2015 on March 03, 2018, 07:34:54 AM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AM
Aren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?

I meant whether you were working as a professional scientist.
This is funny.  :devil2:
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Tank on March 03, 2018, 08:15:11 AM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AM
...

Aren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?
No. Scientists are specialists trained in one or more scientific disciplines with appropriate qualifications. Laymen can be curious and in limited cases just as effective as trained scientists. Please don't degrade professionals.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Recusant on March 03, 2018, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AMOn spirituality, I'd say every being who searches for answers to who they are and why they're here are spiritual. What say you all?

Speaking only for myself, I'd say what you described is curiosity. Spirituality, by common defintion, is concerned with the spirit or soul (incorporeal things) as opposed to material or physical things.


Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AMAren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?

Scientists, professional or amateur, approach their search for knowledge in a specific methodical way (https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/science-fair/steps-of-the-scientific-method). I heartily endorse the idea of asking questions and exploring and learning but that isn't necessarily science, nor is everyone who asks, explores, and learns a scientist, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 07:09:49 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 03, 2018, 08:15:11 AM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AM
...

Aren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?
No. Scientists are specialists trained in one or more scientific disciplines with appropriate qualifications. Laymen can be curious and in limited cases just as effective as trained scientists. Please don't degrade professionals.

I meant no offense to professionals as I respect scientists very much! By profession, I'm a pharmacist.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 07:12:58 PM
Quote from: Recusant on March 03, 2018, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AMOn spirituality, I'd say every being who searches for answers to who they are and why they're here are spiritual. What say you all?

Speaking only for myself, I'd say what you described is curiosity. Spirituality, by common defintion, is concerned with the spirit or soul (incorporeal things) as opposed to material or physical things.


Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AMAren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?

Scientists, professional or amateur, approach their search for knowledge in a specific methodical way (https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/science-fair/steps-of-the-scientific-method). I heartily endorse the idea of asking questions and exploring and learning but that isn't necessarily science, nor is everyone who asks, explores, and learns a scientist, in my opinion.


Recusant, how is human nature categorized? Is it physical?
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Tank on March 03, 2018, 07:49:00 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 07:09:49 PM
Quote from: Tank on March 03, 2018, 08:15:11 AM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AM
...

Aren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?
No. Scientists are specialists trained in one or more scientific disciplines with appropriate qualifications. Laymen can be curious and in limited cases just as effective as trained scientists. Please don't degrade professionals.

I meant no offense to professionals as I respect scientists very much! By profession, I'm a pharmacist.
Definitly a science based discipline.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Recusant on March 03, 2018, 09:54:51 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 07:12:58 PMRecusant, how is human nature categorized? Is it physical?

I would say that human nature is a manifestation of the physical processes that occur within human bodies and that it's mostly centered in human brains. That it has no existence independent of the physical world, as far as can be reliably determined.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Biggus Dickus on March 04, 2018, 03:54:37 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!

Hello and Welcome LightLim,

I practice a lot of yoga, and spirituality is one of those things that is brought up frequently is some classes...as an atheist my idea of spirituality obviously differs rather significantly from the other attendees of my classes, however. It rarely bothers me when it is mentioned as it is such a vague and abstract term, in fact when most folks try to define spirituality they end up using other equally vague and abstract words.

Here's an example, and I bolded the words or phrases that are equally vague.

spiritual

adjective
Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material; supernatural: spiritual power.
Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul: spiritual guidance; spiritual growth.
Not concerned with material or worldly things: led a spiritual life.
Of or belonging to a religion; sacred: spiritual practices; spiritual music.

Basically spirituality means nothing. It one of those generic feel good words, sort of like the way the political leaders in the US send "Thoughts and Prayers" to the victims of mass shootings.

Anyway that's my thought on it.

Once again, welcome:)
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: hermes2015 on March 04, 2018, 04:05:03 AM
Quote from: Recusant on March 03, 2018, 04:06:58 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AMOn spirituality, I'd say every being who searches for answers to who they are and why they're here are spiritual. What say you all?

Speaking only for myself, I'd say what you described is curiosity. Spirituality, by common defintion, is concerned with the spirit or soul (incorporeal things) as opposed to material or physical things.


Quote from: LightLim on March 03, 2018, 05:28:25 AMAren't we all scientist if we're asking questions and exploring and learning about the world and Universe around us?

Scientists, professional or amateur, approach their search for knowledge in a specific methodical way (https://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/science-fair/steps-of-the-scientific-method). I heartily endorse the idea of asking questions and exploring and learning but that isn't necessarily science, nor is everyone who asks, explores, and learns a scientist, in my opinion.

As usual, you've hit the nail on the head, Recusant. The Scientific Method is probably one of our greatest, if not the greatest, achievement. It's the difference between science and religion.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on March 07, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2018, 03:54:37 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!

Hello and Welcome LightLim,

I practice a lot of yoga, and spirituality is one of those things that is brought up frequently is some classes...as an atheist my idea of spirituality obviously differs rather significantly from the other attendees of my classes, however. It rarely bothers me when it is mentioned as it is such a vague and abstract term, in fact when most folks try to define spirituality they end up using other equally vague and abstract words.

Here's an example, and I bolded the words or phrases that are equally vague.

spiritual

adjective
Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material; supernatural: spiritual power.
Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul: spiritual guidance; spiritual growth.
Not concerned with material or worldly things: led a spiritual life.
Of or belonging to a religion; sacred: spiritual practices; spiritual music.

Basically spirituality means nothing. It one of those generic feel good words, sort of like the way the political leaders in the US send "Thoughts and Prayers" to the victims of mass shootings.

Anyway that's my thought on it.

Once again, welcome:)

Haha, spiritual can be a loaded word, can't it?

What do you make of the compulsion to add context to our identity?
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Essie Mae on March 12, 2018, 12:09:37 PM
The last time I thought about the spirit was when I took Old Git's advice to drink a warm whiskey 🥃 to reduce cold symptoms.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Biggus Dickus on March 12, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 07, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2018, 03:54:37 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!

Hello and Welcome LightLim,

I practice a lot of yoga, and spirituality is one of those things that is brought up frequently is some classes...as an atheist my idea of spirituality obviously differs rather significantly from the other attendees of my classes, however. It rarely bothers me when it is mentioned as it is such a vague and abstract term, in fact when most folks try to define spirituality they end up using other equally vague and abstract words.

Here's an example, and I bolded the words or phrases that are equally vague.

spiritual

adjective
Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material; supernatural: spiritual power.
Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul: spiritual guidance; spiritual growth.
Not concerned with material or worldly things: led a spiritual life.
Of or belonging to a religion; sacred: spiritual practices; spiritual music.

Basically spirituality means nothing. It one of those generic feel good words, sort of like the way the political leaders in the US send "Thoughts and Prayers" to the victims of mass shootings.

Anyway that's my thought on it.

Once again, welcome:)

Haha, spiritual can be a loaded word, can't it?

What do you make of the compulsion to add context to our identity?

Identity = Conscious.

I think it mirrors the compulsion to add a god or gods to our lives so as to fill the voids of the unexplained.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on March 14, 2018, 04:38:06 AM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 12, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 07, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2018, 03:54:37 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!

Hello and Welcome LightLim,

I practice a lot of yoga, and spirituality is one of those things that is brought up frequently is some classes...as an atheist my idea of spirituality obviously differs rather significantly from the other attendees of my classes, however. It rarely bothers me when it is mentioned as it is such a vague and abstract term, in fact when most folks try to define spirituality they end up using other equally vague and abstract words.

Here's an example, and I bolded the words or phrases that are equally vague.

spiritual

adjective
Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material; supernatural: spiritual power.
Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul: spiritual guidance; spiritual growth.
Not concerned with material or worldly things: led a spiritual life.
Of or belonging to a religion; sacred: spiritual practices; spiritual music.

Basically spirituality means nothing. It one of those generic feel good words, sort of like the way the political leaders in the US send "Thoughts and Prayers" to the victims of mass shootings.

Anyway that's my thought on it.

Once again, welcome:)

Haha, spiritual can be a loaded word, can't it?

What do you make of the compulsion to add context to our identity?

Identity = Conscious.

I think it mirrors the compulsion to add a god or gods to our lives so as to fill the voids of the unexplained.

The construction of a person's identity is conscious. Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious? Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Dave on March 14, 2018, 08:50:04 AM
QuoteThe construction of a person's identity is conscious. Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious? Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?

Blimey, LL, you seem to have a bit of a flair for using words in ways that make me think! How do you define "identity" in the way that you use it? Identity can be "extracted" from facial features, finger and other prints, DNA analysis etc etc. That is all physical identity that enables others to recognise us and not available to "construction" by choice.

Our behaviour and personality can also be indentifying features (if they are on record in some form), but we have limited control over these I think. Our genes will form the basis, even if our ability to "construct" some factors by self-training, by deliberate and conscious habit forming. But I think even those will be constrained by our genetic propensities. The born psychopath, effectively pre-programmed not to consider the suffering of others,  is unlikely to consciously convert to a lasting "nice guy" personality! Though that person may be a fully functioning human in every other way, even a genius.

I cannot buy the idea that our true indentities are constructs. We do construct a "persona*", a mask that we show the world, something we wish to world to measure us by or for defence, but being a construct - part conscious, part unconcious, - it is inevitably fragile.

The idea of humans "being in touch" or "resonating" with the natural world appears regularly. I have an affection for nature and recognise that I have a common link with it simply because of DNA. But, intellectually, we humans are vastly different from even our closest relations.

* "persona" were the masks used by ancient Greek actors to indicate the emotional state of the character they are playing. These are still iconic in theatres and publications as the laughing and sad masks used as decoration.

Later: a penny has dropped, or a bulb has shed light - I was being narrow minded above and did not consider the concept of, "I identify nyself as (a transvestite, a woman, asexual, an artist etc etc etc)". Yes, a conscious decision on the surface, something that we can aquire the physical, concrete indicators of but is such still not based on one's propensities?  No matter how much I try to draw or paint I do not seem to have that inner something that truly identifies the artists amongst us. I can express myself on paper, but I am not an artist in my mind.

No, I still come down to our genetic inheritance, maybe superficially, even long term, modified by enviroment, as the root of "identity".
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Biggus Dickus on March 14, 2018, 01:05:34 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 14, 2018, 04:38:06 AM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 12, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 07, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2018, 03:54:37 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!

Hello and Welcome LightLim,

I practice a lot of yoga, and spirituality is one of those things that is brought up frequently is some classes...as an atheist my idea of spirituality obviously differs rather significantly from the other attendees of my classes, however. It rarely bothers me when it is mentioned as it is such a vague and abstract term, in fact when most folks try to define spirituality they end up using other equally vague and abstract words.

Here's an example, and I bolded the words or phrases that are equally vague.

spiritual

adjective
Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material; supernatural: spiritual power.
Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul: spiritual guidance; spiritual growth.
Not concerned with material or worldly things: led a spiritual life.
Of or belonging to a religion; sacred: spiritual practices; spiritual music.

Basically spirituality means nothing. It one of those generic feel good words, sort of like the way the political leaders in the US send "Thoughts and Prayers" to the victims of mass shootings.

Anyway that's my thought on it.

Once again, welcome:)

Haha, spiritual can be a loaded word, can't it?

What do you make of the compulsion to add context to our identity?

Identity = Conscious.

I think it mirrors the compulsion to add a god or gods to our lives so as to fill the voids of the unexplained.

The construction of a person's identity is conscious. Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious? Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?

Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious?
No, nor is it compulsionary.

Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?
No I would not agree. I certainly don't. I've accepted nature and my place in the universe. If there are people who ask themselves these questions it is most likely because it fits the religious narrative that a god has placed them here on earth for a reason.

This feels like we are walking down a worn, and recognizable path that evangelicals like to take when trying to dissuade those who don't accept their religious beliefs.
I've been down this path before...our consciousness and self-realization is not akin to a person who thinks being aware and self-identifying means that a god placed them in a specific spot in the universe or that there is some reason for their life.

Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on March 16, 2018, 03:50:49 AM
Quote from: Dave on March 14, 2018, 08:50:04 AM
QuoteThe construction of a person's identity is conscious. Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious? Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?

Blimey, LL, you seem to have a bit of a flair for using words in ways that make me think! How do you define "identity" in the way that you use it? Identity can be "extracted" from facial features, finger and other prints, DNA analysis etc etc. That is all physical identity that enables others to recognise us and not available to "construction" by choice.

Our behaviour and personality can also be indentifying features (if they are on record in some form), but we have limited control over these I think. Our genes will form the basis, even if our ability to "construct" some factors by self-training, by deliberate and conscious habit forming. But I think even those will be constrained by our genetic propensities. The born psychopath, effectively pre-programmed not to consider the suffering of others,  is unlikely to consciously convert to a lasting "nice guy" personality! Though that person may be a fully functioning human in every other way, even a genius.

I cannot buy the idea that our true indentities are constructs. We do construct a "persona*", a mask that we show the world, something we wish to world to measure us by or for defence, but being a construct - part conscious, part unconcious, - it is inevitably fragile.

The idea of humans "being in touch" or "resonating" with the natural world appears regularly. I have an affection for nature and recognise that I have a common link with it simply because of DNA. But, intellectually, we humans are vastly different from even our closest relations.

* "persona" were the masks used by ancient Greek actors to indicate the emotional state of the character they are playing. These are still iconic in theatres and publications as the laughing and sad masks used as decoration.

Later: a penny has dropped, or a bulb has shed light - I was being narrow minded above and did not consider the concept of, "I identify nyself as (a transvestite, a woman, asexual, an artist etc etc etc)". Yes, a conscious decision on the surface, something that we can aquire the physical, concrete indicators of but is such still not based on one's propensities?  No matter how much I try to draw or paint I do not seem to have that inner something that truly identifies the artists amongst us. I can express myself on paper, but I am not an artist in my mind.

No, I still come down to our genetic inheritance, maybe superficially, even long term, modified by enviroment, as the root of "identity".

Dave, nice to know I've got you thinking! I appreciate your input. What makes humans construct a persona? Doesn't the persona help us to understand ourselves and others better? If we understand ourselves better, then we could understand our place in the Universe better.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: LightLim on March 16, 2018, 03:55:39 AM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 14, 2018, 01:05:34 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 14, 2018, 04:38:06 AM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 12, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 07, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2018, 03:54:37 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!

Hello and Welcome LightLim,

I practice a lot of yoga, and spirituality is one of those things that is brought up frequently is some classes...as an atheist my idea of spirituality obviously differs rather significantly from the other attendees of my classes, however. It rarely bothers me when it is mentioned as it is such a vague and abstract term, in fact when most folks try to define spirituality they end up using other equally vague and abstract words.

Here's an example, and I bolded the words or phrases that are equally vague.

spiritual

adjective
Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material; supernatural: spiritual power.
Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul: spiritual guidance; spiritual growth.
Not concerned with material or worldly things: led a spiritual life.
Of or belonging to a religion; sacred: spiritual practices; spiritual music.

Basically spirituality means nothing. It one of those generic feel good words, sort of like the way the political leaders in the US send "Thoughts and Prayers" to the victims of mass shootings.

Anyway that's my thought on it.

Once again, welcome:)

Haha, spiritual can be a loaded word, can't it?

What do you make of the compulsion to add context to our identity?

Identity = Conscious.

I think it mirrors the compulsion to add a god or gods to our lives so as to fill the voids of the unexplained.

The construction of a person's identity is conscious. Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious? Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?

Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious?
No, nor is it compulsionary.

Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?
No I would not agree. I certainly don't. I've accepted nature and my place in the universe. If there are people who ask themselves these questions it is most likely because it fits the religious narrative that a god has placed them here on earth for a reason.

This feels like we are walking down a worn, and recognizable path that evangelicals like to take when trying to dissuade those who don't accept their religious beliefs.
I've been down this path before...our consciousness and self-realization is not akin to a person who thinks being aware and self-identifying means that a god placed them in a specific spot in the universe or that there is some reason for their life.

Hm, PB, what do you understand about nature and your place in the universe? If you understand this, then you're in tune with the spiritual part of you. Spiritual to mean that you are an expression of the universe.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Dave on March 16, 2018, 07:52:49 AM
QuoteWhat makes humans construct a persona?
Well, LL, I am going to say that it is srill down to our genes. It is "constructed", consciously, unconsviously or in a combination of the two, largely as a defence mechanism I think. Two people may react very differently to similar life experience and "construct" different coping strategies - uptight, formal, and organised or laid-back, casual and flexible say. But are these conscious strategies or due to basic factirs - like genes? "Construct" the wrong persona and it will never be fully stable, like the shell it is it can shatter under stress.

"Just be yourself," is a common exhortation - "yourself" can only be that basic, genetic, you.

QuoteDoesn't the persona help us to understand ourselves and others better?
Nope, the persona is whst you show the world, the image you project to elecit the attitude towards you that you desire. It might be closed and defensive or open and outgoing. Formal or cadual as above. It is never the "real you". "The clown who cries" is possibly a person projecting a public persona that is at emotional dissonance with their real self. They may even have taken up clowning to try to "cure" themselves of, or simply hide, a depressed personality.
Title: Re: Hello! New here
Post by: Biggus Dickus on March 21, 2018, 07:25:25 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 16, 2018, 03:55:39 AM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 14, 2018, 01:05:34 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 14, 2018, 04:38:06 AM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 12, 2018, 03:27:08 PM
Quote from: LightLim on March 07, 2018, 10:46:18 PM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on March 04, 2018, 03:54:37 AM
Quote from: LightLim on February 19, 2018, 01:24:03 AM
Hi all,

I'm excited to chat about Atheist living, the Universe, spirituality, and whatnot. I'd like to know what your understanding of spirituality is. Discuss!

P.S. Rift Zone is my friend. I'm here on his referral. Hey, RZ!

Hello and Welcome LightLim,

I practice a lot of yoga, and spirituality is one of those things that is brought up frequently is some classes...as an atheist my idea of spirituality obviously differs rather significantly from the other attendees of my classes, however. It rarely bothers me when it is mentioned as it is such a vague and abstract term, in fact when most folks try to define spirituality they end up using other equally vague and abstract words.

Here's an example, and I bolded the words or phrases that are equally vague.

spiritual

adjective
Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material; supernatural: spiritual power.
Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul: spiritual guidance; spiritual growth.
Not concerned with material or worldly things: led a spiritual life.
Of or belonging to a religion; sacred: spiritual practices; spiritual music.

Basically spirituality means nothing. It one of those generic feel good words, sort of like the way the political leaders in the US send "Thoughts and Prayers" to the victims of mass shootings.

Anyway that's my thought on it.

Once again, welcome:)

Haha, spiritual can be a loaded word, can't it?

What do you make of the compulsion to add context to our identity?

Identity = Conscious.

I think it mirrors the compulsion to add a god or gods to our lives so as to fill the voids of the unexplained.

The construction of a person's identity is conscious. Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious? Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?

Is the compulsion to answer questions like "Why am I here?" and "What's the meaning of life?" conscious?
No, nor is it compulsionary.

Would you agree that every person has this experience, conscious or not?
No I would not agree. I certainly don't. I've accepted nature and my place in the universe. If there are people who ask themselves these questions it is most likely because it fits the religious narrative that a god has placed them here on earth for a reason.

This feels like we are walking down a worn, and recognizable path that evangelicals like to take when trying to dissuade those who don't accept their religious beliefs.
I've been down this path before...our consciousness and self-realization is not akin to a person who thinks being aware and self-identifying means that a god placed them in a specific spot in the universe or that there is some reason for their life.

Hm, PB, what do you understand about nature and your place in the universe? If you understand this, then you're in tune with the spiritual part of you. Spiritual to mean that you are an expression of the universe.

Nature to mean or represent the physical reality of the universe, and my place in it is the same as granule of sand on some other world, or a microbe here on earth.
I don't see that as requiring any "tuning" to accept.
Again I reject the use of the word spiritual or the phrase "Expression of the universe".
I simply a very small, miniscule part of it.