Happy Atheist Forum

It's an honest first attempt I think. it seems to borrow a lot from "The God who wasn't there" but not in an intentional way (I think)

Imrational even sounds and uses the same inflections as Fleming (God who wasn't..) but as a first attempt (if it is so) it is commendable. The danger is, I think, that when you attempt to critically attack the burble, I think some of the dimmer christians take this as some confirmation that the burble is real, so the criticism is (wilfully) sidestepped.

Quote from: "Huxley"I think some of the dimmer christians take this as some confirmation that the burble is real, so the criticism is (wilfully) sidestepped.

Right, the same ones who will quote end times prophecy about people trying to lead them away from christ.  Most of that type are too lost in their own self-delusion to see the world from any other viewpoint.

I'm glad I've  NEVER ( ) met those people!!

Speaking of "The God who wasn't there"... for anyone interested, here is an interesting rebuttal of the film.  There is also another reubttal from Holding in the link below it.  Holding is a little over the top for me most of the time, but it's an interesting read nevertheless.

http://www.answeringinfidels.com/index. ... view&id=87 (http://www.answeringinfidels.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=87)

http://www.tektonics.org/gk/godthere.html (http://www.tektonics.org/gk/godthere.html)

Half of the article is ripping on how they filmed it. I find it funny because to me that's a sort of ad homminem, isn't it?

Haven't read the whole response yet, but it seems as if only the first couple of paragraphs critique the film quality and it's quite a long response.  I agree it has nothing to do with the substance, but maybe the writer is a film buff, who knows.  Personally I don't don't care what either side has to say but I thought another point of view wouldn't hurt.  I thought the characterization of the film as the "Ishtar" of atheism was kinda funny though.

I have heard from a lot of people (other atheists) that the god who wasn't there movie was poorly produced and didn't really make a good argument.  That along with not being very pleased with the producer's evangelical atheist tactics (I know atheists can't really be evangelical, but that's the best word I can think of to describe how they approach anti-theism)...I don't want to spend money to watch the movie.

I admit that there are lots of things I don't understand in the bible, that doesn't stop me believing in the central tenets of the Christian faith, though.  As St. Paul said, "we see through a glass, darkly.  Now we know in part, then we shall know in full."

I believe that Jesus is God's son.   That's the main message in my opinion.  Also, atheists in my opinion always seem to focus on what they see as the bad things regarding the bible and Christian faith.  There are equally many good things that we are taught and encouraged to follow in the bible.   I'm not saying we should just take the good and reject the bad, I'm saying that for some things, we will have to wait for an explanation, just as some of you on this forum have said regarding science explaining creation, etc, that just because science doesn't have the answers now, maybe it will one day.

Well, I also say that (Christians) will have to wait for a fuller understanding on some things one day.  Remember that my viewpoint is equally as valid as yours in light of this.

I've read the bible...Part 2 Moses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxkLyNxbc9M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxkLyNxbc9M)

THat one was pretty good, though that brings up a good point. A week without water in the desert will kill your in a matter of half a day or so.

Ah,  how little you know, Tex-mex.

Oh? I want you to come down to El Paso Texas and live in the desert without water for a week. I'm not sure you English people comprehend, it gets really fucking hot in Texas and the south. You can't have a drop of water when you're in the desert. I bet you won't last past lunch.

A WEEK without water will kill you in HALF A DAY or so?


Ok, I'm willing to overlook this little inconsistency for now.

Where do you get your quotes from, the Road Runner?  That is a cartoon, by the way. . . beep beep

Quote from: "laetusatheos"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6XlmVZG7sk

A video by imrational (probably the same person who is a member here, but I don't know for sure)

Yup, it's me!  Thanks for posting my video here.  I really appreciated some honest and open feedback.

Yeah, I know it's a little slow in parts.  I haven't watched much television over the last 12 or so years and I'm not used to the rapid fire cuts and clips that people now expect.  I'm trying to get better at it.  One further problem I had was that I hadn't found much art work when I did the first video.  I found some online art galleries, so it's getting easier.

As to beating a dead horse... you're right.  I made these primarily for Christians.  I wanted to start with the current perception of the bible they typically have.  I would love to do a series about how christianity has evolved over the centuries and incorporated other myths and legends along the way... but it would be hard to do in less than 10 minute blocks and probably a little dry too.

I would like to say that I really appreciated your honest and critical comments.  Seriously.  They're much more valuable than a token "good job".

Quote from: "Huxley"It's an honest first attempt I think. it seems to borrow a lot from "The God who wasn't there" but not in an intentional way (I think)

Imrational even sounds and uses the same inflections as Fleming (God who wasn't..) but as a first attempt (if it is so) it is commendable.

Thanks for the complement.  You're the second person who's commented that I sounded like Mr. Fleming and that the video resembled his.  

That's interesting.  I have yet to see his video!  I've been wanting to, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

Quote from: "onlyme"A WEEK without water will kill you in HALF A DAY or so?


Ok, I'm willing to overlook this little inconsistency for now.

Where do you get your quotes from, the Road Runner?  That is a cartoon, by the way. . . beep beep

Er, okay that was phrased weird I meant to say, if you were to try and go a week without water, it'll most likelye kill you about half-a-day into it. I'm sorry if I'm not so great and perfect like you, Messiah Maniac.

Quote from: "onlyme"Also, atheists in my opinion always seem to focus on what they see as the bad things regarding the bible and Christian faith.  There are equally many good things that we are taught and encouraged to follow in the bible.  I'm not saying we should just take the good and reject the bad, I'm saying that for some things, we will have to wait for an explanation...

All right, I think everyone will agree that there are some good things in the bible.  But you admit in your post that there is bad as well.  

Okay, how do you choose between the two?  When God tells you in the bible that you should stone your children to death if they try to turn you from God... do you ignore that?  Why?  If God is the source of your morality (your sense of good and evil), then how do you attribute some of his laws as good and some bad?  Aren't you in fact, judging god when you do so?

Quotejust as some of you on this forum have said regarding science explaining creation, etc, that just because science doesn't have the answers now, maybe it will one day.

Well, I also say that (Christians) will have to wait for a fuller understanding on some things one day.  Remember that my viewpoint is equally as valid as yours in light of this.

Well, there is a fundamental difference between science and religion in your point.  Your religion is revealed to you by the bible.  Everything you know about God comes from that book.  You will not have anything else revealed to you unless we have the end of times.

Science, on the other hand, is still writing its book.  As we learn more and more... the book keeps growing and changing.

Well, and I'm trying to be cautious here, I think in some ways, the NT supercedes the OT.  Take for example where Jesus quoted the OT about hating your enemies, and then said 'but I tell you, that you must love your enemies."

I think that the NT teachings of Jesus are a 'better word', though I admit I'm still trying in a lot of ways to figure out where the OT ends and the NT begins, in regard to the teachings of morality, law, obedience, etc.

I don't know some of the answers to your questions, but I'm still learnig, and keeping an open mind, and hoping that things will be clarified in the future.  This is not the same as closing your mind to it altogether, though, as atheists seem to have done.

Hey, Gringo...(or maybe not)..

ANDALAY, ANDALAY,   AREEPA, AREEPA!!

A week without water...ha ha.....


Or, as Clint Eastwood would say...

There are only two kinds of people in this world, my friend....those who can count, and those who can't

Well, I can see your point.  There are a lot of closed minded people on both sides of the fence (atheists and theists).

Quote from: "onlyme"Hey, Gringo...(or maybe not)..

ANDALAY, ANDALAY,   AREEPA, AREEPA!!

A week without water...ha ha.....


Or, as Clint Eastwood would say...

There are only two kinds of people in this world, my friend....those who can count, and those who can't

Did you learn that from the people you mugged?

Quote from: "Big Mac"Did you learn that from the people you mugged?

Can't.....breathe.....laughing.......so.......hard!!!!    :lol:

Quote from: "imrational"I would love to do a series about how christianity has evolved over the centuries and incorporated other myths and legends along the way...

That would be very interesting.  Can we have a pre-release screening?


(And don't take my criticism too seriously.  It's not like I can do better.)

Quote from: "imrational"I haven't watched much television over the last 12 or so years...

Well I doubt it could be Snakes on a Plane! Though it'd give it a run for its money on Special Olympic Gold!

Quote from: "onlyme"Well, and I'm trying to be cautious here, I think in some ways, the NT supercedes the OT.  Take for example where Jesus quoted the OT about hating your enemies, and then said 'but I tell you, that you must love your enemies."

I think that the NT teachings of Jesus are a 'better word', though I admit I'm still trying in a lot of ways to figure out where the OT ends and the NT begins, in regard to the teachings of morality, law, obedience, etc.

So why would Jesus want to change God's previous laws?  That makes it sound as if God's concepts of right & wrong changed over the years, doesn't it?

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "imrational"I would love to do a series about how christianity has evolved over the centuries and incorporated other myths and legends along the way...

That would be very interesting.  Can we have a pre-release screening?


(And don't take my criticism too seriously.  It's not like I can do better.)

Well, I would love to do a series on that... but I wouldn't know where to begin.  It would require a ton of research and be very hard to convey in 10 minute blocks (10 minute vids are all that youtube allows).

Don't sweat criticizing the vids... I'm serious.  Criticism is far more valuable than a simple "Attaboy" or "good job".  How else can you gauge what people want or appreciate?  I'm learning as I go with these and if people just tell you what you want to here, I won't learn much.

For what it's worth, you weren't saying anything new.  A couple of friends told me that I could have easily chopped out 30-45 seconds of material and greatly improved the vid.

Quote from: "imrational"I haven't watched much television over the last 12 or so years...

[/quote]
Yeah, I didn't own a modern computer in twenty years either.  I bought a powerbook last year.  Before that, my last computer couldn't run windows (it was DOS based).  I'm definitely not anti-technology... there were just other toys/adventures I wanted to do instead.

I have to admit though, that not watching much TV for over a decade has caused me some awkwardness lately.  I sometimes feel a little alienated from society (and not just from the atheism either).  People will talk about "so & so" celebrity or show and I won't have a clue.  They'll ask my opinion, or I'll ask what they're talking about and they give me weird looks and ask if I've been living in a cave for the past few years.

On the other hand, I seem more abreast on science, world news, literature, etc.  So I guess it's an even trade-off.

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "imrational"I would love to do a series about how christianity has evolved over the centuries and incorporated other myths and legends along the way...

That would be very interesting.  Can we have a pre-release screening?


(And don't take my criticism too seriously.  It's not like I can do better.)

Quote from: "imrational"I haven't watched much television over the last 12 or so years...

Glad you can sometimes laugh WITH me, mommasquid.

Or are you laughing AT me?

I'VE GOT A GUN....AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT!

Sorry, Bigmac, I meant to say,

As Clint Eastwood would say,

There are only THREE kinds of people in this world, my friend....those who can count, and those who can't.

It was my mistake, as big as the one bigmac made regarding a week in the desert....you distracted me, Ok, Bigmac?   You stole my thunder.  I was criticising you for your mistake, when I made one of my own.

I hate being wrong

Quote from: "onlyme"Sorry, Bigmac, I meant to say,

As Clint Eastwood would say,

There are only THREE kinds of people in this world, my friend....those who can count, and those who can't.

It was my mistake, as big as the one bigmac made regarding a week in the desert....you distracted me, Ok, Bigmac?   You stole my thunder.  I was criticising you for your mistake, when I made one of my own.

The only mistake I made was the wording. The point still stands true. You, nor anyone, can survive a week in the desert without water. You would shrivel up to bare skin, bones, and whatever is left of your once water-ladened muscles and fats. Mommasquid and the others who currently reside in Arizona can attest to this fact. When I visit my Grandma in Juarez (which is directly south of El Paso in the Desert) I used to crack up real bad from the lack of humidity. My skin had become so accustomed to the humid coastal region that being in the desert would hurt my skin. Of course that has passed but imagine going a week without hydration. It's not feasible.

Quote from: "onlyme"I hate being wrong

Wow then you must be drowning in self-hate!

Another question.  Okay, so Moses goes to the Pharaoh and demands the release of the Israelites.  He then poisons the river, killing all the fish. The court magicians duplicate the feat, showing that the "miracle" might not be divinely inspired.  

So why didn't the Pharaoh just kill Moses then and there?!?  I mean, the guy poisoned the local water supply!  If the pharaoh was so blood-thirsty as to kill all the Hebrew babies... why hesitate on killing a couple of guys?

Also, why didn't God intervene  when the Pharaoh was killing off all the Hebrew babies?  Wouldn't a series of plagues that hit right during the murder spree be better evidence of divine judgement?

Quote from: "Big Mac"You, nor anyone, can survive a week in the desert without water.

This thing by the army describes necessary water amounts in desert conditions and also explains how much water would be lost per day:

Army Desert Survival (http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/desert_operations/water-usage-in-desert-ope.shtml)

At work one of the construction workers had a heatstroke. Keep in mind this was during the late morning hours but still, he wasn't even a full day into it and he suffered for it. Even if the Egyptians had reserve I highly doubt it was enough to survive a week.

I passed out cold (almost hit my head on some sharp scrap metal) one time in just low 100 degree weather...I was in the shade too and actually had a little water that day.  I wouldn't last half a day in the dessert if I didn't have shade or water.

They used to force us to chug water in the Army. Even if you weren't thirsty you still chugged along. About 4 guys had heatstrokes in a previous platoon and one almost died during a training exercise. I don't think he'll ever fully recover, or so they said.

Bigmac wrote: Wow then you must be drowning in self-hate!

Ha ha. Good one.  You got me there.  But I'm not always wrong, you know.

You're rational wrote: oh, I'm not typing the whole paragraph!

I think pharoah didn't kill moses because he realised he might be in the presence of a true prophet of God, and got scared.   Regarding your second point, God does sometimes allow tragedy in the fulfillment of His will.  I don't know why.  But that's what happens.  That is why we should be humble in the face of things we don't fully understand.  God is also able to raise to life, though.  He creates.  He kills.  He raises to life.

Can man do that?

And what if my mother DID drop me on my head as a baby?  It didn't do ME any harm, did it?  I mean,...not so you'd notice.

Quote from: "onlyme"And what if my mother DID drop me on my head as a baby?  It didn't do ME any harm, did it?  I mean,...not so you'd notice.

...my dad DID drop me on my head when I was very young...didn't hurt me...babies bounce (not really, but their bones aren't brittle like adults).  He still feels bad about it.

Quote from: "laetusatheos"

Quote from: "onlyme"And what if my mother DID drop me on my head as a baby?  It didn't do ME any harm, did it?  I mean,...not so you'd notice.

:D