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Operations Desk => Forum Suggestions & Announcements => Topic started by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 27, 2012, 11:04:42 PM

Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 27, 2012, 11:04:42 PM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 27, 2012, 11:41:47 AM

I feel akin to these flat worms and if the gender options are changed and aggressive worm isn't added to the options I will be deeply offended, on my own account and for other wormies.


and

Quote from: En_Route on October 27, 2012, 12:03:35 PM

I feel obliged to protest against the implicit discrimination against inanimate objects.

and

Quote from: Crow on October 27, 2012, 01:37:53 PM

Ahh the old object sexuality, don't forget the zoophiles either.

Not cool, guys.

I realize that you are trying to inject humor into the thread, but these are the very things religious conservatives say to humiliate and dehumanize those with different sexuality or identity.  In other words, if you give gays equal rights, then you must also give equal rights to people who have sex with animals or small children.   

It is offensive and hurtful--and I am speaking personally (my feelings) in addition to speaking for communities not reperesented on this board.

You need to walk a mile in the shoes of a trans-identified person or a person born neither male nor female and bullied over and over before you post such things.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: En_Route on October 27, 2012, 11:35:00 PM
Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 27, 2012, 11:04:42 PM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 27, 2012, 11:41:47 AM

I feel akin to these flat worms and if the gender options are changed and aggressive worm isn't added to the options I will be deeply offended, on my own account and for other wormies.


and

Quote from: En_Route on October 27, 2012, 12:03:35 PM

I feel obliged to protest against the implicit discrimination against inanimate objects.

and

Quote from: Crow on October 27, 2012, 01:37:53 PM

Ahh the old object sexuality, don't forget the zoophiles either.

Not cool, guys.

I realize that you are trying to inject humor into the thread, but these are the very things religious conservatives say to humiliate and dehumanize those with different sexuality or identity.  In other words, if you give gays equal rights, then you must also give equal rights to people who have sex with animals or small children.   

It is offensive and hurtful--and I am speaking personally (my feelings) in addition to speaking for communities not reperesented on this board.

You need to walk a mile in the shoes of a trans-identified person or a person born neither male nor female and bullied over and over before you post such things.


My  pleasantry (such as it was) designed to satirise what struck me into rather overblown agonising over a inconsequential matter.  How you can interpret a transparent piece of whimsy into a proposition  that "If you give gays equal rights, then you must also give equal rights to people who have sex with animals or small children." baffles me. I appreciate your extremely understandable sensitivities on this topic but you can be assured I am a little more sophisticated in my outlook than you imply.   
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: Siz on October 28, 2012, 12:34:46 AM
Must we really forego the humour of this humorous subject? Really??

At what point must we stop taking the piss in the pursuit of humour? No one-legged pirate jokes, perhaps, because it's offensive to oversensitive amputees? No Jokes about the elderly doing daft things because my Granny has Alzheimers...? You're asking me to draw the line WAY too close to your own sensibilities, TWC. Very unfair.

If this complaint (and others like it) is upheld this place will have taken a sorry turn.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: En_Route on October 28, 2012, 01:30:02 AM
Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 28, 2012, 12:34:46 AM
Must we really forego the humour of this humorous subject? Really??

At what point must we stop taking the piss in the pursuit of humour? No one-legged pirate jokes, perhaps, because it's offensive to oversensitive amputees? No Jokes about the elderly doing daft things because my Granny has Alzheimers...? You're asking me to draw the line WAY too close to your own sensibilities, TWC. Very unfair.

If this complaint (and others like it) is upheld this place will have taken a sorry turn.

I agree.

Apart from this I often wonder at  people getting so personally offended when  strangers voice opinions which  they find objectionable. They seem to find it difficult to cope with the fact that such prejudices actually exist and this on turn provokes a knee- jerk emotional reaction.  Allowing ones buttons to be pushed so easily generally achieves little other than releasing bad chemicals into your system.
 
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: DeterminedJuliet on October 28, 2012, 01:17:34 AM
I can understand why people get emotionally invested in conversations here. The words and opinions of a few strangers (if you can call people that you talk to everyday "strangers") online might be meaningless in the grand scheme of our lives, but people are inherently social and HAF is a society. If no one really cared about anything that was said here, no one would be here. We all care to varying degrees.

That being said, I've never interpreted it to be in HAF's mandate that we need to prevent anyone from ever being offended.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 28, 2012, 01:55:40 AM
I think that if an idea is ridiculous, then it should be ridiculed, precisely so those dumb arguments equating gay sex with other forms previously mentioned can be dismantled and destroyed in their ridiculousness. Just my two cents. I don't see how making poking fun at ridiculous fringe conservative religious ideas taboo can make things better. ???

As for the OP's question, I think this forum could keep the feature, people are not obligated to choose to use it. Maybe add an 'other' option or something.   
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 02:45:37 AM
I want to discuss this--not fight about it.

I kept this post and my previous one very calm.  Here, I am giving you a taste of a way your jokes can be taken.

Quote from: En_Route on October 27, 2012, 11:35:00 PM

My  pleasantry (such as it was) designed to satirise what struck me into rather overblown agonising over a inconsequential matter.    

Inconsequential for whom?    

Given the suicide rate in the LGBTQ community and how it stems directly from the way we are discriminated against, dehumanized, and mocked, I think it quite consequential.

Have you ever noticed how few LGBTQ people are on this site?  I told two friends about it in hopes that they would join, but they looked it over and said it is too homophobic for them.  Yes, there are many pro-gay sentiments here and a few non-LGBTQ members post truly inspirational things--but comments like the ones in this thread neutralize them.  Very, very sad.

Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:01:10 AM
Once again, discuss, not fight.

Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 28, 2012, 12:34:46 AM
You're asking me to draw the line WAY too close to your own sensibilities, TWC. Very unfair.


And yet, the remark that keeps getting thrown in my face is how everyone here has the freedom to espress himself or herself.  Well, then, that is what I am doing.

Very unfair?  How?  An educated, cultured person who has evolved away from religious bigotry or who has grown up without it knows better than to mock minorities and knows how painful it is for such minorities to be mocked.  

There are many things I would like to say to people here but don't because I am not looking to offend others.  I am here to talk about important issues.  I like humor, and I employ it where it will not offend.  However, if someone says that something I have posted is offensive, I apologize and try to make amends.  I am human, so I do make errors.  I also do not always succeed in acting in the manner I wish to act, but I certainly try to.

What if I started telling every woman I disagreed with on the board that she was a cunt, a whore or a bitch?  I doubt the women here (or the moderators, regardless of their sex) would let me get away with it--and they would be right.  I would be totally in the wrong.  What if I started telling transfusion jokes about people with AIDS or bald jokes about people with cancer?  Quite simply, I never would.  What if I slurred an entire nation represented by many HAF posters in offensive terms?  I seem to recall that a pitched battle over the IRA occurred on this board not too long ago, so don't tell me no one would take offense.

And yet, isn't it my right to call any woman any name I want--especially if she is a moderator who "dared" tell a man what to do?  (I would be so out of line, as well as ashamed of myself.  My freedom of speech is less important that the dignity of other human beings regardless of their sex.)  Do I need to be sensitive to people who may have been affected by illness?  (Of course!  I seem to recall that folks here jumped to the written defense of the menally ill Christian girl in Pakistan who was framed by a religious leader--and they were right to do it.  A decent person cares when others are in pain and does not want to increase the pain.)  As for the IRA...  I would never mock either side.  I would listen and try to understand.  I cannot even imagine what people who have served in the IRA or been hurt by the IRA have been through.  It isn't for me to mock them.

Here in the United States, you cannot get away with insulting some groups (Christians, African Americans, veterans, women and Latinos in some cases, etc.).  Other groups (women and Latinos in other cases, atheists, gays, Native Americans, Jews, Arabs, gypsies, etc.) seem like fair game--except that it is not fair.  I monitor my language carefully, and even a seemingly innocent phrase like "He gyped you" will never leave these lips since it is a reference to gypsies.  ("He Jewed you down" also used to be popular, but fortunately that one is now recognized--at least here in New York, although not everywhere--as anti-Semitic and unacceptable.)

I see people whine on this board in thread after thread about how atheists are maligned.  That is because the us vs. them mentality is in our language, in our thinking and in our humor.  The same atheists who whine then go on to malign other groups.  Liberated gay males set up gay bars that discourage African American gays from being patrons.  African Americans who are proud of their heritage and culture prevent Haitians from moving into their buildings and dehumanize them in terms worthy of the KKK.  Black and white join together in an unholy alliance to deport Mexicans.  Where does it end?

It ends when we are willing to make it end.  It ends when we take responsibility for our words and actions...  and jokes.  
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:02:50 AM
Quote from: En_Route on October 28, 2012, 01:30:02 AM
Allowing ones buttons to be pushed so easily generally achieves little other than releasing bad chemicals into your system.
 

It's called defending yourself and your community, something I see many atheists here doing.  And quite frankly, I think the atheist buttons of many here get pushed far more easily than mine do.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:01:10 AM
And yet, the remark that keeps getting thrown in my face is how everyone here has the freedom to espress himself or herself.  Well, then, that is what I am doing.

Very unfair?  No.  I say that an educated, cultured person who has evolved away from religious bigotry or who has grown up without it knows better than to mock minorities and knows how painful it is for such minorities to be mocked. 


Although I'm totally lacking in culture I wouldn't mock you for being gay.   If I find your view to be ridiculous I won't feel constrained from mocking you though, even if I am going to be labelled a homophobe.


Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:01:10 AM
There are many things I would like to say to people here but don't because I am not looking to offend others.  I am here to talk about important issues.  I like humor, and I employ it where it will not offend. 

How extraordinarily boring, have you employed any lately? I may have missed it.


Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:01:10 AMWhat if I started telling bald jokes about people with cancer

It would depend on the context, if a parent was talking about their child I'd advise against it.  A person who had cancer might appreciate a bald joke, I might risk it.  They might not like being treated like a fragile thing wrapped in cotton wool.  You're not a spokesperson for cancer sufferers as well are you?


Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:01:10 AM
I see people whine on this board in thread after thread about how atheists are maligned. 


We whine do we? 

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:01:10 AMThe same atheists who whine then go on to malign other groups. 
Well they might malign other groups, perhaps the other groups deserved to be maligned.  I think the more frequent scenario here would be someone making legitimate complaints in a non whiney manner and then going on to defend other groups.


Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 02:45:37 AM
I want to discuss this--not fight about it.

I kept this post and my previous one very calm.  Here, I am giving you a taste of a way your jokes can be taken.

Quote from: En_Route on October 27, 2012, 11:35:00 PM

My  pleasantry (such as it was) designed to satirise what struck me into rather overblown agonising over a inconsequential matter.     

Inconsequential for whom?   

Given the suicide rate in the LGBTQ community and how it stems directly from the way we are discriminated against, dehumanized, and mocked, I think it quite consequential.


What, someone's going to off themselves because of En_Route's post?  I'm not sure all the LGBTQ community would welcome you as an advocate, making trivial points, always playing the victim, it trivialises the important issues.


Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 02:45:37 AM
Have you ever noticed how few LGBTQ people are on this site? 

No I hadn't noticed, there is and have been quite a few.  Have we fallen below some acceptable quota?


Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 02:45:37 AM
Have you ever noticed how few LGBTQ people are on this site?  I told two friends about it in hopes that they would join, but they looked it over and said it is too homophobic for them.  Yes, there are many pro-gay sentiments here and a few non-LGBTQ members post truly inspirational things--but comments like the ones in this thread neutralize them.  Very, very sad.

Well if they find this place homophobic I think they are being unreasonable, I don't know anyone here who says negative things about gays, apart from the occasional passing troll.  Jeez all the positive threads and posts and we're still homophobic, still I don't accept you as representative, not everyone wants the cotton wool treatment.


If someone doesn't want to identify as male/female/blank they could use the custom title, the Personal Text, or the Signature.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: Recusant on October 28, 2012, 05:18:49 AM
This point in the discussion presents a fine opportunity to remind all members of the first point in the Conduct Guidelines posted in the Forum Rules (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0). To wit:

QuoteTIME OUT: All members should take time to think and cool down before responding to posts in an angry, disrespectful, or otherwise inappropriate tone (including intoxication). This approach will help to maintain a civil tone and allow members to avoid making posts they will later regret.

Though things have warmed up in this thread, I don't think anyone has said anything particularly regrettable so far, and it is to be hoped that it remains that way.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 05:55:22 AM
Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM

Although I'm totally lacking in culture I wouldn't mock you for being gay.   If I find your view to be ridiculous I won't feel constrained from mocking you though, even if I am going to be labelled a homophobe.

Mock me and I will mock you back.  No dialogue will occur.  

Treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect.  Dialogue will occur.

Mockery has no place on a board populated by intelligent people.

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 03:01:10 AM
There are many things I would like to say to people here but don't because I am not looking to offend others.  I am here to talk about important issues.  I like humor, and I employ it where it will not offend.  

How extraordinarily boring, have you employed any lately? I may have missed it.

All over the board, actually, and I have gotten many comments of LOL and ROTFLMAO.  You should not accuse me of something unless you have the facts.

Why is it wrong to want serious discussion on a serious topic without a string of pointless jokes that dilute the value of the conversation?  I usually ignore the jokes, but in this case I would not have been able to sleep at night if I did not point out how unfair they were.  In the end, defending my community is more important that you or this board.  don't care about this board the way I care about people who have deeply been hurt and don't know where to turn.  I do what I do as a teacher and as a volunteer worker because often, if I don't, no one will.  Much of what I encounter is deeply disturbing.  So, no, I cannot laugh at these "jokes."  

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM

It would depend on the context, if a parent was talking about their child I'd advise against it.  A person who had cancer might appreciate a bald joke, I might risk it.  They might not like being treated like a fragile thing wrapped in cotton wool.  You're not a spokesperson for cancer sufferers as well are you?

You are just plain rude here, and you conduct is unacceptable.  When did I ever claim to represent cancer sufferers or anyone else?  Why would you sarcastically ask if I had?  What I do claim is that I am a teacher whose classroom contains no mockery and no judgment.  That means gay people cannot mock heterosexuals and for the same reason heterosexuals cannot mock gay people.  That means people of color cannot mock whites for the same reason that whites cannot mock people of color.  If you don't like it, take it up with my university.  It is the university's code of conduct to ensure everyone's dignity, and I have taught there for seven years after teaching in a horrible university for eleven years.

You have also completely missed the context.

Look carefully at the exact words I wrote.  A few posts back I stated that some people would prefer to identify as neither male nor female publicly while others would prefer not to select any option.  Similarly, some cancer survivors do not like jokes about what they have gone through while others adore them and tell them themselves.  It depends on the person.  (And I can say that since I know quite a few cancer survivors.)  This is a public forum, and you do not know where people are coming from.  For that reason, if there is a chance that a joke can hurt someone, it must be avoided.

Why hurt someone for no reason?  That is the question I have been asking all my life, and one of the main reasons I became an atheist.  

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM

We whine do we?  

Without question.  And that is the observation of others who are not on the board, not just me.  Personally, I don't think it is a bad thing.  Atheists are the victims of many, and they have the right to whine in order to vent.  I did not mean to imply that whining was a bad thing.  In many cases, I think it is necessary.  I whine because others here whine.    

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
Well they might malign other groups, perhaps the other groups deserved to be maligned.

By that logic, if Christians malign atheists through lack of logic and supernatural beliefs, perhaps atheists deserve to be maligned.  

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM

What, someone's going to off themselves because of En_Route's post?  I'm not sure all the LGBTQ community would welcome you as an advocate, making trivial points, always playing the victim, it trivialises the important issues.

When did I ever say everyone in the LGBTQ community would welcome (or even agree with) me?  Obviously, many would and many would not.  I speak for myself and people I know who are often too afraid to speak for themselves.  I do not speak for the whole LGBTQ community, nor do I agree with every aspect of it.  For example, when white gays exclude gays of color from bars, I want no part of those white gays.  Then again, I hate bars anyway, so bar and club culture is not for me--although I think they are a good thing for others.  There is no uniform voice or uniform way of looking at the world in the LGBTQ community, and it is simplistic thinking to think there is.

It is offensive for you to say that I "always play the victim" or am "making trivial points."  What is trivial to you is not necessarily trivial to me.  Who are you to judge me?  Who are you to say what I have been through?  Who are you to determine whether or not I am a victim?  Yes, who are you indeed?


Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM

No I hadn't noticed, there is and have been quite a few.  Have we fallen below some acceptable quota?

That is a snarky remark.  It is not worthy of you.

Quote from: The Magic Pudding on October 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM

Well if they find this place homophobic I think they are being unreasonable,

And now you judge my friends, whom you don't even know.  They have the right to say whatever they wish about this board--especially since the prevailing attitude here is that anyone has the right to say whatever he or she wishes.  Do not take it upon yourself to judge my friends.  You don't know them.  You don't know what torture heterosexist society has put them through.  You do not know if they are reasonable or unreasonable.  

Are they victims?  Most definitely.    

Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: curiosityandthecat on October 28, 2012, 06:01:28 AM
Man, I missed this place.

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AAdyRr2qaDY/UImDkCQcEZI/AAAAAAAAyfw/E45oUUZ-0RE/s800/2012-10-23-17-10-09-429.gif)

Ignore me. Just here for the show.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 06:25:53 AM
Quote from: curiosityandthecat on October 28, 2012, 06:01:28 AM
Man, I missed this place.


Ignore me. Just here for the show.

That remark and the picture are hurtful.  I am taking away time from all the work I still have to do this weekend so that I can clarify points and perhaps make posters see the effect of their mockery--and this on a board I joined for downtime and recreation (neither of which I get here).  

This issue is very important and must be discussed.
 
Join the discussion if you wish.  
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 06:50:23 AM
Quote from: curiosityandthecat on October 28, 2012, 06:36:19 AM
Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 06:25:53 AM
Quote from: curiosityandthecat on October 28, 2012, 06:01:28 AM
Man, I missed this place.


Ignore me. Just here for the show.

That remark is not necessary.

Join the discussion if you wish.  

My remark was unnecessary but your remark about my remark being unnecessary was necessary? Hmm.

I have no desire to join in the discussion as I personally don't care one way or the other about the actual topic of this thread (to leave or remove the gender field on the profile). My "unnecessary" remark is simply a statement of appreciation about being privy to a place like the forum and the quality of the discussions that go on.

I'm sorry; I suppose all that was unnecessary, as well. As I said before: ignore me and continue as you please. (Or, if you like, feel free to remark on my remark about your remark on my remark.)

This is the problem.  I take these issues and the words here very seriously.  I try to the best of my ability to live my life in a way that helps people who have been hurt because I too have been hurt.  Nothing could be more important to many people (not just me) than the things I have been discussing. I would think that atheists, who have often been through horrible situations while becoming atheists, would get it.

You are just trying to be funny and don't see the seriousness of the issues.  I don't get it.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: curiosityandthecat on October 28, 2012, 07:02:57 AM
Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 06:50:23 AM

This is the problem.  I take these issues and the words here very seriously.  I try to the best of my ability to live my life in a way that helps people who have been hurt because I too have been hurt.  Nothing could be more important to me that the things I have been discussing. 

You are just trying to be funny.  I don't get it.

Well, you say "trying."

Look, I'm sure you take these issues as seriously as some (if not the majority) of the atheists/agnostics/non-theists/etc. on this board take the issues related to that. It's perfectly acceptable and nobody's arguing that. We have been hurt. We have friends who have been hurt. But what does that have to do with this topic? If this has now become an attempt to shed light on what you feel is mockery or persecution or discrimination, then fine, but it's no longer a "forum suggestion." You seem a reasonable and logical fellow; I'm sure you'll agree.

Regardless, what is a trigger for you is not necessarily a trigger for someone else. Relevance does not equate to priority. The fact that this topic is extremely poignant and personal to you in no way suggests it should be for someone else. When a topic isn't salient for someone, they may act in a way that could be construed as dismissive, much the same way atheists put up with their religious friends or family "dismissing" their views as unimportant. You will find no better group for sympathy in this than this one.

But the point is this: some people don't care about what you care about, and vice versa. If you want to spend your time and energy campaigning, fine, but don't let it get to you when someone participates in a manner that lacks the severity with which you approach it.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 07:31:01 AM
Quote from: curiosityandthecat on October 28, 2012, 07:02:57 AM

Look, I'm sure you take these issues as seriously as some (if not the majority) of the atheists/agnostics/non-theists/etc. on this board take the issues related to that. It's perfectly acceptable and nobody's arguing that. We have been hurt. We have friends who have been hurt. But what does that have to do with this topic? If this has now become an attempt to shed light on what you feel is mockery or persecution or discrimination, then fine, but it's no longer a "forum suggestion." You seem a reasonable and logical fellow; I'm sure you'll agree.

Regardless, what is a trigger for you is not necessarily a trigger for someone else. Relevance does not equate to priority. The fact that this topic is extremely poignant and personal to you in no way suggests it should be for someone else. When a topic isn't salient for someone, they may act in a way that could be construed as dismissive, much the same way atheists put up with their religious friends or family "dismissing" their views as unimportant. You will find no better group for sympathy in this than this one.

But the point is this: some people don't care about what you care about, and vice versa. If you want to spend your time and energy campaigning, fine, but don't let it get to you when someone participates in a manner that lacks the severity with which you approach it.

I greatly appreciate this productive post and thank you.  If you disagree with me, I have no issue with that.  The tone of this post is all I ever ask.  

Yes, this is off topic.  In my first days on the board I objected to all the derailed threads, and I have been on boards where derailing was not allowed.  Here, it seems to be the way the board operates.  For or better or worse, I no longer make an attempt to stay on topic since (and I could be wrong here) it does not matter if one does or does not.

The topic of this thread is "Gender Identification option on the profile."  I did not start the topic.  Here is what I see...

1. I suggested that more than two options be given and even suggested a fill in the blank.

2. I don't know who all the guests are reading the thread, but I feel that it is important to stand up for them in case one or more falls into the "other" category.  For all I know, one or more members could be afraid of speaking up as well.  Before I began my current volunteer work (2004--and mostly with heterosexuals), I did volunteer work within the gay community.  One thing I learned in my training is that every potentially divisive remark--even the seemingly innocent joke--must be pointed out.  If a reasonable person tells it (and I assume the people here are, for the most part, reasonable), he or she may be unaware of how harmful it can be.  When people with alternate sexual or gender identities are mocked all their lives, some do commit suicide.  It isn't over just one joke; it's over a lifetime of being hated and mocked.  Those kind of jokes are as bad as any homophobic remark.  I know this to be true, and I will do almost anything to prevent others from experiencing what I did.  Some people here know it as well, as one does not have to be LGBTQ to get it.  Others do not get it.

3. I tried to explain that it was equally wrong to mock anyone, whether women, people with AIDS, cancer survivors, people involved in or hurt by the IRA...  Anyone.  I further tried to explain that the us vs. them mentality is the main reason so many of atheists have such a hard time in their lives and find places like this a welcome relief.  In other words, these issues affect everyone.

4. Once again, I don't mind if people disagree with me.  I don't expect everyone to agree, and a healthy discussion is good.  What I don't get is the mockery and the disrespectful way I have been talked down to by so many.  I am no angel and I don't claim to be, but I doubt I deserve to be spoken to like that.  I have posted many threads that others have enjoyed, including the thread on Greenwich Village and New York City, and I have gone out of my way to be supportive of anyone here who needs support.  

Again, I am no angel, and neither am I a saint.  It just seems like the proper thing to do.  It won't get me into heaven since there is no heaven.  It won't win me brownie points since there are no special privileges here even if someone likes me (except, perhaps, becoming a moderator--but I never want to be one).  It won't win me gold stars, and I can but my own gold stars in any store that sells office or school supplies.  It won't make my parents proud, as they don't know about this board.  It is just something to do for its own sake.

Academia too is filled with colleagues attacking other colleagues, and I hate that too.  In the university I used to teach in before my current appointment, two professors (both with Ph.D.s, mind you) had a fistfight (yes a fistfight, with a lot of hair pulling--in front of their students!) over whether French or Creole was Haiti's official language.  How utterly stupid.  Why not have all the students in one combined room for a session and have a rational debate in which arguments are presented and each student decides for himself or herself?

The snarky remarks and disrespect here are like hairpulling over Haiti's official language.

A post like the one you just made reminds me why I am on this board.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: curiosityandthecat on October 28, 2012, 07:49:41 AM
Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on October 28, 2012, 07:31:01 AM

Academia too is filled with colleagues attacking other colleagues, and I hate that too.  In the university I used to teach in before my current appointment, two professors (both with Ph.D.s, mind you) had a fistfight (yes a fistfight, with a lot of hair pulling--in front of their students!) over whether French or Creole was Haiti's official language.  How utterly stupid.  Why not have all the students in one combined room for a session and have a rational debate in which arguments are presented and each student decides for himself or herself?

The snarky remarks and disrespect here are like hairpulling over Haiti's official language.

A post like the one you just made reminds me why I am on this board.

I guess I'm missing how that analogy works, but the imagery is entertaining, at least.

Glad some of your faith (hah, see what I did there?) is restored by that. Wasn't my intention, but I'm happy if it had that effect.

I'm going to go back to doing what I do best, now: making drive-by reaction gif comments.  ;D

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FGw6HL.gif&hash=73f8118a43c4d8d9c6a6d1cae9449e74c796bfe2)
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: Siz on October 28, 2012, 08:20:56 AM
Just to lighten the mood.... (or maybe put you in a deeper one...)

Two asexuals meet in the street:
Guy 1: Nice bicycle man. Is it new? Where'd you get it?
Guy 2: Dude, the weirdest thing. I was just walking down the street and this very attractive woman on a bike stopped in front of me, stripped naked and said: "Take whatever you want bog boy"
Guy 1: Good call. The clothes probably wouldn't have fit you anyway.


My computer is asexual, it has no sex drive


Q. how many asexuals does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A. They'd really rather not.


I wish my homework was asexual so it would do itself.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: Tank on October 28, 2012, 09:13:55 AM
A point to consider.

If offending anybody took precedence over using humour to highlight hypocrisy could this is this image ever be reproduced?

(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factsofisrael.com%2Fen%2Fimages%2Farticles%2Fislamic-suprremacist-bomb-head.jpg&hash=330b51ce01ee96eef7f99d667ccb53152695eafa)

TWC. If your views about giving offence were made manifest you are in effect precluding any comment or criticism of anything that might be deemed offensive to anybody. You are in effect supporting the Islamic view of the need for blasphemy laws. Do you really, really want to live in a world like that? 

I have issues about the IRA, the details of which are private and will remain so. En_routes comments about the IRA offended me but my reaction was way out of line. But that's MY problem not HIS. Which is why we buried the hatchet on that matter.

TWC, you really need to try to stop beating yourself up over what has been done to you in the past. As Will said "Don't let somebody else's bullshit ruin your day."

Also you use the word discuss and then make multiple assertions of your position and dismiss the position of others. Is that really discussing or just intellectual bullying? Discussion would start with a question to clarify your interlocutors position would it not? Simply assuming the motivations of ones interlocutor means you are arguing with your own opinion of the other persons position not necessarily what they actually think.

Nobody is perfect and that group includes me, you and everybody here. No one person has the right to mould the world in their own image, except God, and as He does not exist we all have to live in an imperfect world with loads of other imperfect people. I doubt the world will ever be perfect but a world without humour? Shoot me please!

Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: En_Route on October 28, 2012, 11:30:50 AM
I agree with Tank's last comments. For myself and I imagine Tank too I move in circles where people's gender or sexual orientation are matters of complete indifference. It seems to me that for TWC his sexuality and the persecution he has suffered as a consequence of it in a very different society are central, all- consuming issues for him and he has become extremely sensitised to any suggestion of homophobia. If you are looking for discrimination you will find it and TWC duly has.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: Asmodean on October 28, 2012, 01:36:16 PM
Quote from: Tank on October 28, 2012, 09:13:55 AM
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.factsofisrael.com%2Fen%2Fimages%2Farticles%2Fislamic-suprremacist-bomb-head.jpg&hash=330b51ce01ee96eef7f99d667ccb53152695eafa)
Oh, great! Now, some muzzie who fancies himself a hacker shall DDoS us  ::)
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: Crow on October 28, 2012, 01:44:20 PM
Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 28, 2012, 08:20:56 AM
Two asexuals meet in the street:
Guy 1: Nice bicycle man. Is it new? Where'd you get it?
Guy 2: Dude, the weirdest thing. I was just walking down the street and this very attractive woman on a bike stopped in front of me, stripped naked and said: "Take whatever you want bog boy"
Guy 1: Good call. The clothes probably wouldn't have fit you anyway.

Love it.
Title: Re: Gender Identification option on the profile.
Post by: Asmodean on October 28, 2012, 01:53:08 PM
Quote from: Crow on October 28, 2012, 01:44:20 PM
Quote from: Scissorlegs on October 28, 2012, 08:20:56 AM
Two asexuals meet in the street:
Guy 1: Nice bicycle man. Is it new? Where'd you get it?
Guy 2: Dude, the weirdest thing. I was just walking down the street and this very attractive woman on a bike stopped in front of me, stripped naked and said: "Take whatever you want bog boy"
Guy 1: Good call. The clothes probably wouldn't have fit you anyway.

Love it.
I'd have taken the bicycle too. Could have sold it for money later and not spent a single coin of it on STD treatments.