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Do you think we will discover life somewhere other than earth in my lifetime?

Started by Curt, June 29, 2017, 06:19:08 AM

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Asmodean

Is there a reason why a species which reproduces asexually (through for example cloning) would not evolve?

DNA is disgustingly good at self-replicating well, and yet mistakes do happen. If one such mistake led to better being able to produce the most viable offspring in a lifetime... Evolution.

Yes?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Arturo

That's true asmo. Some plants reproduce asexually and they evolve. I was just curious about life that does not reproduce at all. And like a bacteria, they just absorb whatever is near them to change that way maube? Idk, I'm just of the thought that life on other planets is nothing as we know it on earth.

Of course as we know life, it has to reproduce to be called life. But that's still biased towards us only finding life here.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Asmodean

Intriguing thought...

A life form, which does not reproduce - it just is.

I suppose, on the macro-est of levels, the Universe is one such. Still, "respires, replicates and expires" is more along the lines of what we define as life. It is a system which takes in some input in order to replicate itself and then... Succumbs to entropy?

I wonder if we found something not-precisely-dead, yet foreign to that half-baked definition, if it would not be more prudent to... Think up a new word for it? Sort-of like intelligence? Would we even recognize it if we saw it in a form so foreign to ourselves as an alien world might produce?

Hmm... Something "living" at a very (age of the Universe to a second type of very) slow pace... Yes. Maybe. I can see how such life forms could hypothetically exist.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Tank

Quote from: Arturo on July 26, 2017, 12:42:42 AM
Also something that crossed my mind - how do we even know they evolve? What if they just came into existence and stayed that way??? We could be sending messages to an alien version of a bacteria. Because I mean there is no guarantee that they have sex so how could they evolve??
Sexual reproduction is not required for organisms to evolve. Evolution is the change over time of allele frequency in a population. Mutations occur during reproduction, sexual or otherwise. Populations have variation and selection pressures effect survival/reproduction. Where you have reproduction, mutation, variation and selection pressures you get evolution.

And don't forget genetic drift.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: Asmodean on July 26, 2017, 02:18:03 PM
Intriguing thought...

A life form, which does not reproduce - it just is.
...
How did it arrive in the first place?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

Emerged as a result of whatever passes for chemistry at the scales we are talking about.

I'm not talking about life that always was, but about life that just is. It takes a fair bit of imagination, but is there a reason why there would not exist some (let's say very simple for the purpose of this discussion) system out in space, which uses surrounding molecules and particles and the energy of, say, stray photons and what have you to replicate itself over the course of billions of years? Would such a system not be alive in the broad sense of the word?

Have you heard about those um... Fractal whatchamacallems, which lived like... At the time of early multicellular life? I wonder why those died out... Eaten by more complex things? Some mass extinction event they just couldn't recover from..?

Books. I need to raid me a university library or something.


Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Arturo

Quote from: Tank on July 28, 2017, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: Arturo on July 26, 2017, 12:42:42 AM
Also something that crossed my mind - how do we even know they evolve? What if they just came into existence and stayed that way??? We could be sending messages to an alien version of a bacteria. Because I mean there is no guarantee that they have sex so how could they evolve??
Sexual reproduction is not required for organisms to evolve. Evolution is the change over time of allele frequency in a population. Mutations occur during reproduction, sexual or otherwise. Populations have variation and selection pressures effect survival/reproduction. Where you have reproduction, mutation, variation and selection pressures you get evolution.

And don't forget genetic drift.

Okay so let's forget the sex part. Let's just say they came into existence and don't evolve. Let's say they are the way they always have been since they appeared. What would that be like?
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

No one

Asmodean:
Intriguing thought...

A life form, which does not reproduce - it just is.
...



Tank:
How did it arrive in the first place?

Magic Sky Fairies, of course.

Tank

Quote from: Arturo on July 28, 2017, 04:05:28 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 28, 2017, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: Arturo on July 26, 2017, 12:42:42 AM
Also something that crossed my mind - how do we even know they evolve? What if they just came into existence and stayed that way??? We could be sending messages to an alien version of a bacteria. Because I mean there is no guarantee that they have sex so how could they evolve??
Sexual reproduction is not required for organisms to evolve. Evolution is the change over time of allele frequency in a population. Mutations occur during reproduction, sexual or otherwise. Populations have variation and selection pressures effect survival/reproduction. Where you have reproduction, mutation, variation and selection pressures you get evolution.

And don't forget genetic drift.

Okay so let's forget the sex part. Let's just say they came into existence and don't evolve. Let's say they are the way they always have been since they appeared. What would that be like?

It looks like we're discussing a 'organism' that arrives by some kind of abiogenesis and then remains unchanging in perpetuity? Would that be what you're describing?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

OldGit

Quote from: The Grey OneI'm not talking about life that always was, but about life that just is. It takes a fair bit of imagination, but is there a reason why there would not exist some (let's say very simple for the purpose of this discussion) system out in space, which uses surrounding molecules and particles and the energy of, say, stray photons and what have you to replicate itself over the course of billions of years? Would such a system not be alive in the broad sense of the word?

Have you read The Black Cloud by Fred Hoyle?

Arturo

Quote from: Tank on July 29, 2017, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: Arturo on July 28, 2017, 04:05:28 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 28, 2017, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: Arturo on July 26, 2017, 12:42:42 AM
Also something that crossed my mind - how do we even know they evolve? What if they just came into existence and stayed that way??? We could be sending messages to an alien version of a bacteria. Because I mean there is no guarantee that they have sex so how could they evolve??
Sexual reproduction is not required for organisms to evolve. Evolution is the change over time of allele frequency in a population. Mutations occur during reproduction, sexual or otherwise. Populations have variation and selection pressures effect survival/reproduction. Where you have reproduction, mutation, variation and selection pressures you get evolution.

And don't forget genetic drift.

Okay so let's forget the sex part. Let's just say they came into existence and don't evolve. Let's say they are the way they always have been since they appeared. What would that be like?

It looks like we're discussing a 'organism' that arrives by some kind of abiogenesis and then remains unchanging in perpetuity? Would that be what you're describing?

Correct.
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

hermes2015

Quote from: Arturo on July 29, 2017, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 29, 2017, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: Arturo on July 28, 2017, 04:05:28 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 28, 2017, 10:26:14 AM
Quote from: Arturo on July 26, 2017, 12:42:42 AM
Also something that crossed my mind - how do we even know they evolve? What if they just came into existence and stayed that way??? We could be sending messages to an alien version of a bacteria. Because I mean there is no guarantee that they have sex so how could they evolve??
Sexual reproduction is not required for organisms to evolve. Evolution is the change over time of allele frequency in a population. Mutations occur during reproduction, sexual or otherwise. Populations have variation and selection pressures effect survival/reproduction. Where you have reproduction, mutation, variation and selection pressures you get evolution.

And don't forget genetic drift.

Okay so let's forget the sex part. Let's just say they came into existence and don't evolve. Let's say they are the way they always have been since they appeared. What would that be like?

It looks like we're discussing a 'organism' that arrives by some kind of abiogenesis and then remains unchanging in perpetuity? Would that be what you're describing?

Correct.

Do you think tardigrades could be an example?
"Eventually everything connects - people, ideas, objects. The quality of the connections is the key to quality per se."
― Charles Eames

Tank

If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Tank

Quote from: Arturo on July 29, 2017, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Tank on July 29, 2017, 09:00:15 AM
....
It looks like we're discussing a 'organism' that arrives by some kind of abiogenesis and then remains unchanging in perpetuity? Would that be what you're describing?

Correct.

How complex does this 'organism' have to be.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Asmodean

Quote from: OldGit on July 29, 2017, 09:41:48 AM
Quote from: The Grey OneI'm not talking about life that always was, but about life that just is. It takes a fair bit of imagination, but is there a reason why there would not exist some (let's say very simple for the purpose of this discussion) system out in space, which uses surrounding molecules and particles and the energy of, say, stray photons and what have you to replicate itself over the course of billions of years? Would such a system not be alive in the broad sense of the word?

Have you read The Black Cloud by Fred Hoyle?

No. Having read a couple of reviews, however, that is something I mean to remedy.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.