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Started by MommaSquid, August 02, 2006, 02:39:34 AM

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Asmodean Prime

#30
Chris:  Yes, I agree with you, if it's done through anger and a loss of control on the part of the parents.  But threatening to take away sweets, toys, etc, if the child repeatedly ventures near a busy road, for example, is not a good way of ensuring the child's safety.  Something more drastic is required.  It may seem 'cruel' at the time, but if it saves the child's life, then, as I said before, maybe it's the 'lesser of two evils'

Asmodean Prime

#31
Only me, my experience is that I have never witnessed corporal punishment exerted without anger, except once...when my step-father beat me, coldly and thoroughly.  I assure you, I learned nothing except hatred.  In theory, it sounds reasonable.  In practice...I will say I don't know if it is possible.  I have my doubts.

Asmodean Prime

#32
You may have your doubts, Chris, but a 'softly, softly' approach, allowing young children to make decisions for themselves, which WE should make for them as parents, can have catastrophic consequences.  Are you a parent yourself?

I love my children, and would do anything to protect them.  I know I can't always do that - cushion them from the evils of this world - but I will do what I can.   If a 'smack' saves them from something more dangerous, then I will take that option.  Don't you agree?

Whitney

#33
I have a better way to teach kids not to go into a busy street.  Take a watermelon (or some other melon) and get someone else to drive a car.  Tell the child to watch the watermelon, as the other person drives along the road roll the watermelon into the street.  The child will then notice that thing that go into the street get hit by cars and smashed.  Explain to the child that the same could happen to them if they run out in the street.  If a kid understands why it's bad to go into the road, he won't be so inclined to run out there.  Pointing out road kill would have the same affect, but a watermelon isn't as grusome.

Asmodean Prime

#34
Laetus, that might work with slightly older children, who are capable of understanding.

My good friend not too long ago had a young boy who ran into the road, was hit by a van and killed instantly.

The parents are devastated - the child is DEAD

I don't intend for that to happen to someone who I am responsible for.  A slap is better than being mown down by a car.  I'm not a cruel person.

The thing is, we grown ups know the dangers inherent in everyday life.  A child doesn't.  They must be prevented at ALL costs from venturing into a situation which could result in serious injury, or death.  And, yes, as I said before, this is unconditional love on our part.

Asmodean Prime

#35
Onlyme...no longer...all grown...and they were step, and youngest was 6 when I entered the picture.  If you can do it, fine....your children, your decision.  It's tough though...but I wish you well.  I like Laetus's suggestion. :)

Whitney

#36
onlme....my point is that spanking doesn't teach the child why it's bad to go in the road, it only scares them momentarily.  If the child is too young to understand something as simple as cars will smash you like they will any other item, then they aren't going to be able to understand that they were being spanked for running into the road and will do it again.

MommaSquid

#37
Quote from: "laetusatheos"I have a better way to teach kids not to go into a busy street.  Take a watermelon (or some other melon) and get someone else to drive a car.  Tell the child to watch the watermelon, as the other person drives along the road roll the watermelon into the street.  The child will then notice that thing that go into the street get hit by cars and smashed.  Explain to the child that the same could happen to them if they run out in the street.  If a kid understands why it's bad to go into the road, he won't be so inclined to run out there.  Pointing out road kill would have the same affect, but a watermelon isn't as grusome.

Quote from: "onlyme"Laetus, that might work with slightly older children, who are capable of understanding.

All the examples and suggestions in the world are not going to convince this guy to stop hitting his children.  

We tried and failed.  

(Sorry Connor and Jessica.)   :(

Asmodean Prime

#38
Quote from: "laetusatheos"onlme....my point is that spanking doesn't teach the child why it's bad to go in the road, it only scares them momentarily.  If the child is too young to understand something as simple as cars will smash you like they will any other item, then they aren't going to be able to understand that they were being spanked for running into the road and will do it again.

I know what you're saying, laeuts, but I disagree that it's only momentarily.  I remember as a kid, swearing at my dad.  Well, he chased me all over the house, and when he caught me, he spanked me.  I never did it again.

I think this is something that must be drummed into them constantly, not just once, then it becomes engrained in them, and not momentarily.

I think the safety of children is paramount at all costs.  Surely you don't think that a light slap is the same (cruelty) as allowing them to embark on dangerous activities.  I know you don't.  

To be honest, though ( and I may be wrong here), atheists, because they are in favour of personal liberties at all costs, are sometimes guilty of extending this belief/practice too far, in my opinion.

As I said in an earlier post, in this country at least:
 
Parents are prevented from smacking their children
Schools are prevented from disciplining children
Courts are prevented from punishing children/juveniles

No wonder the kids run amok.

And we are reaping what we have sown.  With all the youth crime, children divorcing their parents, and exerting their 'rights', etc.

I don't think this is a good thing.  Children are still learning, and need to be guided by (sensible) adults.  Otherwise, we are letting them down, giving them too much freedom, and endangering them, ourselves, and society as a whole.

Whitney

#39
I'm with mommasquid...I give up.  I've explained why spanking is not necessary to teach or protect the safety of a child...there isn't anything more I can say about it that would change your mind.

Asmodean Prime

#40
Ok, mommasquid and laetus

You think I am a cruel, abusing parent, who thinks it is right and proper to 'hit' kids

I can't convince you of my side of the story either, but at least I will do what it takes to protect and teach my kids what is necessary to keep them safe in this dangerous world.

I may be wrong.  Time will tell.  But I have my kids to think about.  As I said earlier, a 'smack' is preferable to more serious injury.

I love my kids.  I HATE hitting them, and I only do so OCCASIONALLY, when I think it is ABSOLUTELY necessary.  I don't hit my kids for the fun of it, or for a power trip, or to 'lord it over them', or because I've 'lost it'.

I only want what's best for them.  Again, I say, a smack is better than serious injury, or them getting into trouble in the future, which is what I, myself, did.

Hitting kids?  I HATE violence, as I said earlier.  ESPECIALLY towards kids!

Am I a bad parent?  If you think I am, I will get my kids on this forum to speak for themselves.  Just please say the word.

I am not angry, here, by the way, just confused that people don't see the validity of discipline regarding children.  As God said, 'discipline seems hard at the time, but with patience, produces a harvest of righteousness.'

Asmodean Prime

#41
Quote from: "Big Mac"I am going to have to disagree with you guys (become I'm a "loose-cannon", this coming from a guy who is basically a fanatic) because I think spanking is a good way to discipline kids. I was a handful growing up, I was kicked out of Boy Scouts, Football, Karate, T-Ball, etc. because I was just too hyper and I recognized this now that I have grown up. I used to be a really weird kid. What helped me calmed down when I misbehaved was a good old ass-whooping from my dad and mom. I would never even dream of hitting my mom even as a grown man. And she would smack me in the mouth if I was disrespectful or cursed in front of her. I turned out quite alright.

Yes, Bigmac, you are a loose cannon.  Ha ha.  I like that title. But, yes, I must admit I do have to agree with you on what you say, once again.

You may be a loose cannon, but you speak a lot of sense in my opinion.  Maybe being a loose cannon is not such a bad thing, after all.

and this coming from a fanatic.

You may be a brown assed, goose stepping, illegal immigrant, who sneaked into America by stealth and deception, who doesn't speak good english, but maybe you're not so bad after all.  Ha ha (only kidding).

Asmodean Prime

#42
Mommasquid:  c'mon...I mean..per-leeze!

Spanking is not the same as child abuse.  OK, I see a lot of the things you mention myself in everyday life, here where I live...people hitting, swearing, shouting at their kids for NO real reason...and this really gets my goat. But are you really lumping caring parents in with these selfish, angry, arrogant lot?  I think not!

Don't you agree that a balance can be reached and implemented by caring parents, who have no desire to abuse or harm their children, but only to teach them to respect others, and keep safe themselves?

I truly, eagerly await your response.

Asmodean Prime

#43
Mommasquid:  Interesting avatar.  It reminds me partly of a UK TV series (tales of the unexpected), partly of James Bond and partly of Tomb Raider.  What DOES it represent, if anything?

Or are you not divulging?

Asmodean Prime

#44
Quote from: "MommaSquid"
Quote from: "laetusatheos"I have a better way to teach kids not to go into a busy street.  Take a watermelon (or some other melon) and get someone else to drive a car.  Tell the child to watch the watermelon, as the other person drives along the road roll the watermelon into the street.  The child will then notice that thing that go into the street get hit by cars and smashed.  Explain to the child that the same could happen to them if they run out in the street.  If a kid understands why it's bad to go into the road, he won't be so inclined to run out there.  Pointing out road kill would have the same affect, but a watermelon isn't as grusome.

Quote from: "onlyme"Laetus, that might work with slightly older children, who are capable of understanding.

All the examples and suggestions in the world are not going to convince this guy to stop hitting his children.  

We tried and failed.  

(Sorry Connor and Jessica.)   :(

mommasquid, you don't need to apologise to our connor and jessica.  I hit my children maybe twice or three times a year.   It's not a regular thing, you know.  Maybe you should come over and see how I treat my children, then you would understand.  You are quite welcome at any time.  I will give you my address if you email me.  Unfortunately, I can't pay for your flight, but I will accomodate and feed you.   Failing that, I will put my children on the webcam, and you can see them in cyberspace.