How many strikes before your out?

[En_Route]

No. NO. Everyone has the potential to mature and change, till the day they die. I hate to be quoting Jesus on this, but we shouldn't forgive this man 7 times. We should forgive him 77 times. 777 times. There is no tipping point.

I probably won't pray for him, but I believe that he can become a better person.

Would you like to be the one to appologise to the victims?
Well he had committed rape 776 times but we thought he might change so we forgave him, let him free and hoped for the best

Yes. I will apologize to the victims. In time he may apologize too, or he may not. But I will not, I will NOT destroy him. No man shall be deprived of the chance to change and mature. No man is beyond redemption. It is the victims, after all, who have not forgiven him, but only they will be able to do so. Once he has become a better man, he is free to go.

It's not about forgiveness or even culpability. My own view is that it is Impossible for anyone to be ultimately responsible for their own actions. Rehabilitation is worthwhile even from a pragmatic perspective as the cost of incarceration is high as is the social cost of re- offending. Where someone represents a serious danger to society, then society will keep them locked- up on the principle of self- preservation. It is perfectly possible to forgive someone without feeling it prudent to release them.

[Tank]

No. NO. Everyone has the potential to mature and change, till the day they die. I hate to be quoting Jesus on this, but we shouldn't forgive this man 7 times. We should forgive him 77 times. 777 times. There is no tipping point.

I probably won't pray for him, but I believe that he can become a better person.

Would you like to be the one to appologise to the victims?
Well he had committed rape 776 times but we thought he might change so we forgave him, let him free and hoped for the best

Yes. I will apologize to the victims. In time he may apologize too, or he may not. But I will not, I will NOT destroy him. No man shall be deprived of the chance to change and mature. No man is beyond redemption. It is the victims, after all, who have not forgiven him, but only they will be able to do so. Once he has become a better man, he is free to go.

It's not about forgiveness or even culpability. My own view is that it is Impossible for anyone to be ultimately responsible for their own actions. Rehabilitation is worthwhile even from a pragmatic perspective as the cost of incarceration is high as is the social cost of re- offending. Where someone represents a serious danger to society, then society will keep them locked- up on the principle of self- preservation. It is perfectly possible to forgive someone without feeling it prudent to release them.

I agree with this because we can't read minds. Thus we can never know if an historical recidivist has truly turned over a new leaf. The individual can be kept in a more sympathetic environment than a prison but still separate from society where he would possibly be in danger anyway.

[Hector Valdez]

I have given some thought to this. A man who commits a crime, especially a violent one like rape, and who intends to do it again, presents a problem to justice. In a perfect world, these things would not happen, but I don't believe that such things can ever be completely prevented through social justice or prisons. In this world, it would seem, there is pain, and things like rape and evil things of that nature do happen.

So how to proceed, given this information? Prisons are a deterrent from such actions and crimes, but if the goal of a prison is indeed rehabilitation, the life in prison without the possibility of parole is an admittance of failure on the part of justice. I do believe that prison time is important to have, but I can not find myself lumping criminals like this into a simple "scum of the earth" category and leaving them to rot.

Criminals are not defined apart from their victims. Both are human beings, and both act according to rules of human nature, emotion, and the tangle of beliefs and habits that make them, them. It could be that in time, a better understanding of criminal psychology will enable us to help criminals to become functioning members of society.

If I were running the prison system, I would hold him in prison until he showed the emotional maturity and self-awareness of an individual that does not commit rape. There is no perfect measurement that can validate this to a perfect level of accuracy, but that doesn't mean that reason and intuition do not play a part in helping determine whether an individual is fit for reintegration. You don't need a Q.E.D. proof that a prisoner will not rape again to believe that he won't.

Of course, if I do release him, and he does commit rape, then yes I will apologize to the victim. From your words, you seem to be implying that my apology is not good enough, but I think that speaks more for the mentality of the victim who is not willing to forgive. That kind of attitude will not forgive, and holds on to pain, even though it is more beneficial to let it go. So my answer is yes, I will let him go after a reasonable ascertainment of his ability to reintegrate, and I apologize to all victims, regardless of who they are.

The mistake, however, lies in thinking that I am to blame for the pain that they are feeling. I myself would be solely responsible for letting him out. He would be solely responsible for any rape he might commit. And the victim is solely responsible for whether they are hurt or not.

[Stevil]

I myself would be solely responsible for letting him out. He would be solely responsible for any rape he might commit.

But you letting him out of prison and into society allows him the opportunity to rape someone whom might otherwise had a wonderful life. You say that you take no responsibility for the safety of the public and the threat you introduced by putting this repeat offender back there.

[Crow]

I myself would be solely responsible for letting him out. He would be solely responsible for any rape he might commit.

But you letting him out of prison and into society allows him the opportunity to rape someone whom might otherwise had a wonderful life. You say that you take no responsibility for the safety of the public and the threat you introduced by putting this repeat offender back there.

But RR (or anyone else) isn't responsible for another persons actions and should never be accountable for another person, there is nothing stopping that individual from rape even if you do lock them up either.

[Stevil]

I myself would be solely responsible for letting him out. He would be solely responsible for any rape he might commit.

But you letting him out of prison and into society allows him the opportunity to rape someone whom might otherwise had a wonderful life. You say that you take no responsibility for the safety of the public and the threat you introduced by putting this repeat offender back there.

But RR (or anyone else) isn't responsible for another persons actions and should never be accountable for another person, there is nothing stopping that individual from rape even if you do lock them up either.

I personally hold my government responsible for letting repeat offenders out. I would like to see criminal charges laid down against the people that make the decision to let them out, especially if there is evidence to show that the person is likely to commit rape or other violent attacks on people in society again.
I find it sickening when this happens. To think that another member of society pays with their life because someone let these type of people (monsters) out.
I can't fathom the idea, Oh it wasn't my fault that he raped No 778, I just let him out. I accept no responsibility for what he does on the outside.

[xSilverPhinx]

If I were running the prison system, I would hold him in prison until he showed the emotional maturity and self-awareness of an individual that does not commit rape. There is no perfect measurement that can validate this to a perfect level of accuracy, but that doesn't mean that reason and intuition do not play a part in helping determine whether an individual is fit for reintegration.

I find it sickening when this happens. To think that another member of society pays with their life because someone let these type of people (monsters) out.

I agree. IMO some have to be very closely watched ^

[Crow]

I don't think its an individuals fault if these people are let out and commit the offense I hold the legal system accountable, if that system isn't up to scratch (I don't think there is a perfect system anywhere) then we as society need to sort it out, it isn't the governments fault either, they are made up of useless fuck wits (bit harsh) trying to further their careers who consistently without fail deliver short term solutions that make people think something is being done but in reality the bare minimum is being achieved if that.

Ultimately it is society at large that is at blame, by blaming the government for certain problems we aren't creating any solutions just adding more. A current example of this is people in all western countries who are complaining that there isn't enough manufacturing or produce being created in their country and blame the government for it, this has absolutely nothing to do with the government and is nothing they can do without forcing business away. the solution to this is with the people to vote with their pockets, to buy products and food that are made in their own country especially if that means spending £50 on a tee rather than £10, western society is capitalist whether we like it or not and the flow of capital quickly adjusts market trends.

The same thing applies to the legal system, even though it isn't dependent upon the flow of money in the same way there is still the defense system that you need to get on side as they are hugely influential and are entirely money influenced (don't bother with lawyers/barristers its the business owners, share holders, and directors you need to win). Protests are useless and are perceived as a nuisance, petitions still have a lot of weight in the UK (don't know about other countries) and is one of the best ways to get a topic discussed in parliament, the only problem is that most of these petitions are not backed by respectable organisations, industry heavyweights, scientific research, and majority public opinion. Do this and you will achieve something worthwhile. Its a lot of hard work and requires capital and industry influence but with the right commitment then something will be achieved. Otherwise its just pointless moaning.

[Sandra Craft]

Once he has become a better man, he is free to go.

How can you judge that he has become a better man? How can you know that he won't re-offend? Is messing up the life of the next victim worth it?

While I'm sure some few people do turn their lives around, from what I've seen and experienced in life the rule that the only sure predictor of the future is the past generally holds true.  And while this may be sad for the rare person who does truly reform, I also think there are some things that shouldn't be forgiven -- things that can't be fixed or undone, like murder and rape.  They may no longer be the sort of person who does that, but they did it before and still have to pay for it.

If you were the government, is it your job to ensure individuals get ample opportunity to change or is it your job to keep society functional and safe?

I'd vote for keeping society functional and safe as the Gov'ts job.  The job of giving individuals opportunities to change belongs with society and, far more, with the individual himself. 

[Ali]

If I were running the prison system, I would hold him in prison until he showed the emotional maturity and self-awareness of an individual that does not commit rape. There is no perfect measurement that can validate this to a perfect level of accuracy, but that doesn't mean that reason and intuition do not play a part in helping determine whether an individual is fit for reintegration. You don't need a Q.E.D. proof that a prisoner will not rape again to believe that he won't.

I'm sorry, but emotional maturity and self awareness?  You think that rapists are just...immature? 

The mistake, however, lies in thinking that I am to blame for the pain that they are feeling. I myself would be solely responsible for letting him out. He would be solely responsible for any rape he might commit. And the victim is solely responsible for whether they are hurt or not.

Just to clarify, the victim of the rape would bear the sole responsibility for how they feel about being raped?  Like, if the rape is damaging to them, it is their fault for feeling that way?  Is that what you're really saying?

[Will]

Former gang member with 106 convictions back behind bars
You gotta wonder, how society puts up with garbage like this?
How many convictions does a person need before we decide to throw away the key or simply terminate the problem person?

I tend to think of this from a different perspective. I doubt anyone is under the illusion anymore that the criminal justice system is designed or functions primarily to rehabilitate criminals. In truth, based on recidivism rates, it seems more to do the opposite, releasing criminals that are even worse than the ones put away.

Instead of thinking of this as either keep imprisoning or put to death, I think of this more as what we can actually do to reform and rehabilitate. What are other countries doing that are helping to release more stable, productive members of society from prison? What can we do differently, and how can we go about changing from what we have now to a better system? Clearly this gang member is not, in his current condition, capable of being a productive, stable member of society. What could be done to change that? Education, perhaps? Giving him a job to do that, instead of being menial, is fulfilling? There are certainly options.

[Stevil]

What could be done to change that? Education, perhaps? Giving him a job to do that, instead of being menial, is fulfilling? There are certainly options.

Problem is you don't want to reward this behaviour i.e. if a person wants some training or a job, all they need to do is commit a crime and then the government will pay them with skills and a job.

[Will]

Problem is you don't want to reward this behaviour i.e. if a person wants some training or a job, all they need to do is commit a crime and then the government will pay them with skills and a job.

I'm less concerned about the justice of the situation and more concerned about the practicality of it. The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Our crime rates, while lower than they were in decades gone by, are still far higher than comparable industrialized nations. We criminalize things that need not be criminalized, our private prison system is sucking up funds from states that don't have the money to spend, and ex-cons are essentially second-class citizens, rarely able to find decent work even after having paid their debt to society. I believe this situation we're in is unsustainable.

Most people in prison have inadequate education. Most people in prison are going to leave prison into a situation where crime is the only method by which they can survive. Most people in prison are in such a harsh environment that they have even less humanity in them leaving than they did when they were originally incarcerated.

We need some kind of change, and I refuse to allow that change to be an increased rate of the death penalty until we've actually tried some alternatives. My personal moral objections to capital punishment aside, it's not what we should be doing as a society.