WTF? Turkish President Erdoğan’s Hitler Comment

[Recusant]

I've been following Erdoğan's presidency on and off since he was elected. In my opinion, he stands out as somewhat more of an ass than your average politician. I think there is little doubt that he's making a power grab, and tried to justify it the other day with a rather strange comment.

"Politicians slam Erdoğan over Hitler's Germany comparison" | Today's Zaman

The article linked above gives an abbreviated version of his remark, while the article linked below has a better one.

"There is no such thing as 'no presidential system in unitary states.' There are examples of this around the world. There are examples in the past, too. When you look at Hitler's Germany, you can see it there. You can see examples in other countries as well," Erdoğan said. "What is important is that a presidential system should not disturb the people in its implementation. If you provide justice, there will be no problem because what people want and expect is justice."

The walk-back by his office is not particularly reassuring.

"Erdoğan's office says president's remarks on Hitler Germany distorted" | Today's Zaman

Erdoğan's office said on Friday that in his remarks the president meant to underline three points with one putting emphasis on that presidential systems also exist in unitary states and that a presidential system does not have to be based on federalism.

According to the statement, the president also meant to underline that the basis of a presidential system is the implementation of principle of justice and meeting the expectations of the nation.

"If the system is abused it may lead to bad management resulting in disasters as in Hitler's Germany ... The important thing is to pursue fair management that serves the nation," the statement said, adding it was unacceptable to suggest Erdogan was casting Hitler's Germany in a positive light.

The Reuters article mentioned in the story above seems to have been edited, including giving it a new title. The original title was "Turkey's Erdogan says Hitler's Germany exemplifies effective presidential system" while if you go to Reuters now, you'll find "Turkish presidency says Erdogan's Hitler comments misconstrued".

[Firebird]

Erdoğan is essentially Turkey's version of Putin. He's dismantled many of the institutions that keep excessive government in check, including the media,  judiciary, and military. There are more journalists jailed In Turkey than in China. When his party lost their majority in their parliament, he basically let the government fail while starting a new fight with the Kurds so that the populace would be sufficiently scared enough to vote his party back into the majority via a snap election. When audio recordings came out of him and his son plotting to embezzle hundreds of millions of dollars, he fired all the police officers and prosecutors investigating him, and no one blinked an eye. Not to mention using riot police against peaceful protesters in Gezi Park. My sister-in-law had a friend who lost an eye when he was hit by a tear gas canister. He rules by fear  and rhetoric that appeals to the Islamists and religious middle class.
My in-laws are proud Turks, but it's gotten so intolerable that even they've begun wondering when it will be time to leave.

[OldGit]

Firebird says it all.  At last the ideals of Kemal Atatürk are being stood on their head; it's so sad and the Turkish State will soon be just another Moslem dictatorship.

The EU is greatly to blame for not letting Turkey join when it was still a reasonably democratic state.  Turkey could have been drawn into the European bloc and this would never have happened - but no country is going to accept constant rejection.

[Insoluble]

The EU is greatly to blame for not letting Turkey join when it was still a reasonably democratic state. 

Or maybe it deserves great kudos.

Turkey could have been drawn into the European bloc and this would never have happened - but no country is going to accept constant rejection.

Maybe, I've bought a few pairs of future seeing specs on the internet but none of them work reliably, monoculars though, they're very good.

It would have been awful for the EU accepting Turkey and then having it going orf.

My innate anti islamic bias mostly has free reign these days though.

[OldGit]

Fair point: I should have said this would most probably never have happened .  But it's a fact that a lot of Turks resent the EU's rejection.

It would have been awful for the EU accepting Turkey and then having it going orf.

That's also a good point.

My innate anti islamic bias mostly has free reign these days though.

Mine, too, but until recently I never thought of Turkey as an Islamic place in practice.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Fair point: I should have said this would most probably never have happened .  But it's a fact that a lot of Turks resent the EU's rejection.

It would have been awful for the EU accepting Turkey and then having it going orf.

That's also a good point.

My innate anti islamic bias mostly has free reign these days though.

Mine, too, but until recently I never thought of Turkey as an Islamic place in practice.

Doesn't this raise the question whether a majority Muslim nation can EVER be a true democracy?  If Turkey can go down the tubes, there's little hope for any other Muslim state.  At some point we may have to admit that the two are incompatible.

[Firebird]

Fair point: I should have said this would most probably never have happened .  But it's a fact that a lot of Turks resent the EU's rejection.

It would have been awful for the EU accepting Turkey and then having it going orf.

That's also a good point.

My innate anti islamic bias mostly has free reign these days though.

Mine, too, but until recently I never thought of Turkey as an Islamic place in practice.

Doesn't this raise the question whether a majority Muslim nation can EVER be a true democracy?  If Turkey can go down the tubes, there's little hope for any other Muslim state.  At some point we may have to admit that the two are incompatible.

Indonesia and Malaysia have done OK, and they're both majority Muslim. Turkey has always had its issues with the religious populace and coups, but Erdoğan has exploited the religion quite effectively to push his political power.
It's not like fundamentalist Christianity or Judaism are compatible with "true democracy" either by definition. See all the homosexuals being killed in Africa in the name of Christianity, or the radical Israeli settlers attacking Palestinians. And it's not as if other countries don't have the same issues (like I mentioned before,  see Russia). I still contend it has more to do with the culture and how they use/exploit the religion rather than the religion itself. I'm not giving Islam a pass; its beliefs are despicable in many ways. But the old and new testaments stone people to death and condone slavery too.

[OldGit]

Atatürk knew all too well what Islam would do if he didn't keep it firmly in place.  His legacy was not perfect, but worked pretty well for eighty years with the 'deep state' stepping in where necessary.  Erdogan at first behaved fairly reasonably and gained popularity, whilst quietly drawing the teeth of the army.  Now there's no 'deep state' to stop him.

[Insoluble]

Indonesia and Malaysia have done OK, and they're both majority Muslim.

The Malaysian democracy has done OK by not allowing opposition. 

I don't think christians should feel to smug though.
South America, all those christian countries have had some fun.
Then there's Spain up to recently, I won't mention the Nazis, USSR
Zimbabwe   
South Africa causes some concern.
There was Silvio but that was Italy being Italy I suppose.