Saudi princess: What I'd change about my country

[Tank]

I hold a door open for somebody irrespective of their gender. Manners cost nothing.

[DeterminedJuliet]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

[Siz]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

[Sweetdeath]

I hold doors because I feel it's the polite thing to do.

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

Nothing personal to you as well, Mikeness.


I suppose some women feel almost offended at a man holding the door open. I know it bothers me. I apologize ^^; but i doubt my feelings will change.

There is a difference though of someone holding the door open (as Tank said) without seeing gender. But there are a lot of men who only hold door open for women, or have that look/air about them when they are waiting for you. I won't rush either, so i'll go through another door. I really feel almost degraded when men hold it open for me, expecting me to flutter in like some princess. 

[Sweetdeath]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

Too weak to open a jar or wire a plug? Are you really being serious? I hope not. 


This whole 'my skills are different based on my gender' bullshit is over. At least it needs to be. People should not be expected to know how to or not how to do things because of their reproductive organs.

(DJ: I would of so cursed that guy out. that would of pissed me off. Also, there's like really no need for some stranger to try to act 'suave' by guiding you. Wow.    )

[En_Route]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

Puny, helpless and cackhanded as all women are without exception, I think they might  still be able to  just about open a door unaided. Once you'd shown them how to perform that intricate task first of course. I am curious as to how you know a woman is on her period in order to afford her special treatment. I suppose you have to ask and if she says no, then treat her as if she were a man.

[Siz]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

Too weak to open a jar or wire a plug? Are you really being serious? I hope not. 


This whole 'my skills are different based on my gender' bullshit is over. At least it needs to be. People should not be expected to know how to or not how to do things because of their reproductive organs.

(DJ: I would of so cursed that guy out. that would of pissed me off. Also, there's like really no need for some stranger to try to act 'suave' by guiding you. Wow.    )

SD, men and women ARE different. That is a fact. Men and womens brains are wired differently and have accordingly differing abilities. They are also phisically less strong. Those are also facts.

The premise of my post is to highlight the conflict which occurs when women argue for equal rights yet still require special allowances because of their womanly dispositions.

I totally respect a womans right to be treated equally and encourage it. But that requires a woman to accept that there are some things that a man is predisposed to doing better (and the converse is also true). Equality means having to compete under the same rules and not expect special treatment to account for gender-specific needs or shortfalls.

The day women stop having to ask their husband to wire the plug, get shit down from the loft, open a jar, carry the shopping, fix the car (etc...) is the day I stop making the EXTRA effort to hold a door for them just in case I am seen as misogynistic for letting it slam in their face.

Why do they ask hubby to do these things? Because they're easier for men to do than for women. I don't blame women for that, I just want women to understand that the inequality is not created by men.

[OldGit]

^ This.  Mrs Git and I are both quite happy with me doing the kind of jobs that Siz describes, while she does most of the cooking and gardening.  Of course we both help each other with all sorts of stuff.

She's quite capable of checking the car's tyres if she has to, but she'd rather I did it.  I can cook some simple stuff if I have to, but I don't enjoy it. Why should I cook when she's a real genius at cooking, and loves doing it?  Naturally I help by peeling spuds and simple stuff like that, just as she'll help me out with repair jobs, when necessary.

I'm not as certain as Siz that these attributes are inherent in all men and women, but they are in us, and in many other couples I know.

[En_Route]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

Too weak to open a jar or wire a plug? Are you really being serious? I hope not.  


This whole 'my skills are different based on my gender' bullshit is over. At least it needs to be. People should not be expected to know how to or not how to do things because of their reproductive organs.

(DJ: I would of so cursed that guy out. that would of pissed me off. Also, there's like really no need for some stranger to try to act 'suave' by guiding you. Wow.    )

SD, men and women ARE different. That is a fact. Men and womens brains are wired differently and have accordingly differing abilities. They are also phisically less strong. Those are also facts.

The premise of my post is to highlight the conflict which occurs when women argue for equal rights yet still require special allowances because of their womanly dispositions.

I totally respect a womans right to be treated equally and encourage it. But that requires a woman to accept that there are some things that a man is predisposed to doing better (and the converse is also true). Equality means having to compete under the same rules and not expect special treatment to account for gender-specific needs or shortfalls.

The day women stop having to ask their husband to wire the plug, get shit down from the loft, open a jar, carry the shopping, fix the car (etc...) is the day I stop making the EXTRA effort to hold a door for them just in case I am seen as misogynistic for letting it slam in their face.

Why do they ask hubby to do these things? Because they're easier for men to do than for women. I don't blame women for that, I just want women to understand that the inequality is not created by me

There does seem to be wide scientific acceptance that the typical female brain is wired differently from the typical male brain, although given the plasticity of the brain, it is possible for a female brain to develop strengths in  areas that are typically associated with male brains, and vice versa, so nurture can cancel out nature in many cases. Over and above this, a significant number of men have actually  predominantly female brains- and vice versa. We've all encountered this  phenomenon in everyday life, and it is separate from sexuality. So, to generalise and say that all men are more proficient than all women in certain aspects of life is manifestly wrong. These kind of generalisations are destructive because they unthinkingly pigeonhole people and make rigid judgements about individuals, which are not based on evidence and which serve to defend discriminatory and biased behaviours.

[Sweetdeath]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

Too weak to open a jar or wire a plug? Are you really being serious? I hope not.  


This whole 'my skills are different based on my gender' bullshit is over. At least it needs to be. People should not be expected to know how to or not how to do things because of their reproductive organs.

(DJ: I would of so cursed that guy out. that would of pissed me off. Also, there's like really no need for some stranger to try to act 'suave' by guiding you. Wow.    )

SD, men and women ARE different. That is a fact. Men and womens brains are wired differently and have accordingly differing abilities. They are also phisically less strong. Those are also facts.

The premise of my post is to highlight the conflict which occurs when women argue for equal rights yet still require special allowances because of their womanly dispositions.

I totally respect a womans right to be treated equally and encourage it. But that requires a woman to accept that there are some things that a man is predisposed to doing better (and the converse is also true). Equality means having to compete under the same rules and not expect special treatment to account for gender-specific needs or shortfalls.

The day women stop having to ask their husband to wire the plug, get shit down from the loft, open a jar, carry the shopping, fix the car (etc...) is the day I stop making the EXTRA effort to hold a door for them just in case I am seen as misogynistic for letting it slam in their face.

Why do they ask hubby to do these things? Because they're easier for men to do than for women. I don't blame women for that, I just want women to understand that the inequality is not created by men.

scratch that--


Do you honestly think your fucking generalising helps at all?

I know plently of women who don't need a 'man' to open a jar for them. What the fuck kind of bullshit is that?

There is no such thing as 'all women need this' and 'all men need to do this for women' thing. That way of thinking just prevents any kind of gender bias from not existing. I certainly don't need any man for opening jars and holding my bags. I'm sorry, but your way of thinking (if you are serious) is infuriating, because it's such a terrible bias.

[Tank]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

Who designed the jam jar that a woman couldn't open? Probably a man. That's a design issue. Not a user issue. I'm sure that there are some men that can't open jam jars, oh yes, old ones that don't have sufficient strength any more.

There are also these things



That break the vacuum on a jar thus rendering it much easier to open.

When I was a kid my dad was an electrical salesman. He taught me how to wire plugs. I don't know how to wire plugs because I was born with a penis I can wire a plug because somebody taught my to.

[Tank]

DJ, SD... if we ever happen upon the same door at the same time, expect me to hold it open for you. That's how my mom, dad, coaches, and many other respectable men that have shaped who I am have taught/displayed to me. It's nothing personal.

Frankly, reading in to it that holding a door for you is a way of reminding you you are second class or something is quite a reach, IMO. Like I said, I do it because I think it's polite. I hold the door for my wife every time to the point that she will catch herself waiting at the door for me.

I got glared at once while in college for darting ahead to hold a door for another student. She glared and muttered something about "I don't need a man to hold my doors" or something. I told her to FO after that.

I'm never rude about it, and I don't think it makes me a "second class citizen", I just don't like it when it's obviously a gendered thing (generally being polite is fine, I usually go out of my way to hold the door for people, too.) But some men make a big show of "ladies first" and I just don't enjoy it very much. I got on an elevator a few weeks ago and a man did this - he was obviously ahead of me, but he jumped back behind me and another woman and said "ladies first!" with a big cheesy grin and then he "guided" us on the elevator by putting his hands near the small of our backs. I'm sure he thought he was being nice, but I can't help it, it bothered me. I'm not "special" just because of my sex. I don't need to get on an elevator first (I certainly don't need to be physically guided onto it).

Then don't expect any special treatment when you're pregnant, on your period or too weak to open a jar, wire a plug, or all the other things at which men are instinctively better.

There is a reason women are treated differently - it's because they're different. Gotta take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid girls!

Too weak to open a jar or wire a plug? Are you really being serious? I hope not.  


This whole 'my skills are different based on my gender' bullshit is over. At least it needs to be. People should not be expected to know how to or not how to do things because of their reproductive organs.

(DJ: I would of so cursed that guy out. that would of pissed me off. Also, there's like really no need for some stranger to try to act 'suave' by guiding you. Wow.    )

SD, men and women ARE different. That is a fact. Men and womens brains are wired differently and have accordingly differing abilities. They are also phisically less strong. Those are also facts.

They may be facts but they are not the whole story. Because there is such wide variation in the populations of men and women there will be people all over the place in terms of capabilities. The issue here is that it's also a common misconception that in large variable populations that the average is meaningful predictive measure of central tendency in any one individual within the population. It isn't, one can't simply say everybody in population A is taller than everybody in population B simply because the average height of population A is greater than the average height in population B. This is the fallacy of 'isms, sexism, racism etc. The statistics of the population give no indication of the values for any individual in that population.  

Which of the following two is the stronger?

The premise of my post is to highlight the conflict which occurs when women argue for equal rights yet still require special allowances because of their womanly dispositions.

Personally I've never met a woman who asked for both equality AND special privilages.

I totally respect a womans right to be treated equally and encourage it. But that requires a woman to accept that there are some things that a man is predisposed to doing better (and the converse is also true).

No this is the fallacy of the average. At the level of the individual population averages are meaningless and can be very misleading.
You're using statistics in the way a drunk uses a lamp post; for support rather than illumination.

Equality means having to compete under the same rules and not expect special treatment to account for gender-specific needs or shortfalls.

Agreed. Provided the rules are fair and equatable in the first place. And as men have made the rules for millennia how do we know they are fair and equatable?

The day women stop having to ask their husband to wire the plug, get shit down from the loft, open a jar, carry the shopping, fix the car (etc...) is the day I stop making the EXTRA effort to hold a door for them just in case I am seen as misogynistic for letting it slam in their face.

I think we need to have general education in our schools for life skills, shopping, car maintenance, sowing, plug changing, balancing a bank account, cooking, tool use etc etc. That's were the skills issue can be countered from day one.

Why do they ask hubby to do these things? Because they're easier for men to do than for women. I don't blame women for that, I just want women to understand that the inequality is not created by men.

It's only easier for men to do these because they are expected to know these things and are thus pressured by society into being taught how to do them. All my kids can cook, sow, change a light bold, check the tyre pressures on their car because I taught them to, not because they have a penis or a vagina.  

[Siz]

There does seem to be wide scientific acceptance that the typical female brain is wired differently from the typical male brain, although given the plasticity of the brain, it is possible for a female brain to develop strengths in  areas that are typically associated with male brains, and vice versa, so nurture can cancel out nature in many cases. Over and above this, a significant number of men have actually  predominantly female brains- and vice versa. We've all encountered this  phenomenon in everyday life, and it is separate from sexuality. So, to generalise and say that all men are more proficient than all women in certain aspects of life is manifestly wrong. These kind of generalisations are destructive because they unthinkingly pigeonhole people and make rigid judgements about individuals, which are not based on evidence and which serve to defend discriminatory and biased behaviours.

Are you suggesting that we try to rewire womens brains to be more like mens? Cos that'd be stupid, right?!

If we are to talk about a social phenomenon (like sexism) then it is prudent to generalise. Of course there are exceptions, but we could not formulate ANY kind of workable social system if we are forced to account for every exception. If you will not allow us to debate a social issue based on reasonable generalisations then we're not going to get very far on any subject. I argue that my generalisations ARE reasonable because the facts of gender difference are well established and undisputed.

I can not apologise for acting towards a woman in a way that I consider it appropriate to act towards women. Yes, I am guilty of treating every female stranger I meet with equal respect. And I am prejudiced when I relate to women, just like I am prejudiced when I relate to children, or dogs, or spiders because they have discrete mental motivations.

Let's try to put sexism into context here. If I am to treat women equally then I would request reciprocal consideration and not be made predominantly responsible for certain physical chores around the house. Is that not fair? (and for the record I undertake many traditionally wifely duties around the house with pride).

It's sad that one would consider an act of respectful chivalry an expression of dominance or superiority. Especially as we men suffer the social dilemma of not knowing whether we're dealing with a feminist or traditionalist when we approach the lift doors.


You may choose to call it sexist, I'd call it a celebration of our gender differences.

[Dobermonster]

I don't mind at all when a man opens a door from me. It's an act of politeness, and for many older gentlemen, it's how they were taught to show respect to a woman. "Ladies first", I take as a compliment with a nod and a smile. The only reason to blow off the gesture would be to say, "Screw you, old man - we don't do things that way anymore", which seems a bit rude when the intent was only a good one. There are plenty of rude people that aggravate me, such as the gent that got in my mom's face and gruffly told her to stand aside because he was trying to walk through (whatever happened to "excuse me"?). I told him he was an asshole. So, I make it a policy to reward politeness when I see it, and offer it generously myself. There are many genuine and significant issues of sexism to get in a tizzy about, and for me, that's not one of them.

[En_Route]

There does seem to be wide scientific acceptance that the typical female brain is wired differently from the typical male brain, although given the plasticity of the brain, it is possible for a female brain to develop strengths in  areas that are typically associated with male brains, and vice versa, so nurture can cancel out nature in many cases. Over and above this, a significant number of men have actually  predominantly female brains- and vice versa. We've all encountered this  phenomenon in everyday life, and it is separate from sexuality. So, to generalise and say that all men are more proficient than all women in certain aspects of life is manifestly wrong. These kind of generalisations are destructive because they unthinkingly pigeonhole people and make rigid judgements about individuals, which are not based on evidence and which serve to defend discriminatory and biased behaviours.

Are you suggesting that we try to rewire womens brains to be more like mens? Cos that'd be stupid, right?!

If we are to talk about a social phenomenon (like sexism) then it is prudent to generalise. Of course there are exceptions, but we could not formulate ANY kind of workable social system if we are forced to account for every exception. If you will not allow us to debate a social issue based on reasonable generalisations then we're not going to get very far on any subject. I argue that my generalisations ARE reasonable because the facts of gender difference are well established and undisputed.

I can not apologise for acting towards a woman in a way that I consider it appropriate to act towards women. Yes, I am guilty of treating every female stranger I meet with equal respect. And I am prejudiced when I relate to women, just like I am prejudiced when I relate to children, or dogs, or spiders because they have discrete mental motivations.

Let's try to put sexism into context here. If I am to treat women equally then I would request reciprocal consideration and not be made predominantly responsible for certain physical chores around the house. Is that not fair? (and for the record I undertake many traditionally wifely duties around the house with pride).

It's sad that one would consider an act of respectful chivalry an expression of dominance or superiority. Especially as we men suffer the social dilemma of not knowing whether we're dealing with a feminist or traditionalist when we approach the lift doors.


You may choose to call it sexist, I'd call it a celebration of our gender differences.

As I said the brain is plastic, so men or women can rewire their brains to develop aptitudes that do not come as naturally.
Your point about the necessity for making generalisations to operate a workable social system is an empty one. One can make  valid generalisations- let us day that women tend to be more empathetic than men. That doesn't, mandate conducting society on the basis that every woman is more empathetic than every man. The danger is not in the generalisation but in acting as if the generalisation must always hold true at the individual level.
Once you accept that women are potentially capable of doing anything as well or better than men then it ceases to be relevant whether this is true for a minority or majority of women. It implies that in a society which wishes to treat individuals equally, all individuals must have equal opportunitirs. As I have also said, many men have predominantly female brains and vice versa, so the exceptions are more numerous than you suggest. I notice that you have only cited those areas where you believe women to be constitutionally inferior to men- in terms of physical strength, ability to rewire plugs etc and as  requiring special care and attention when pregnant or menstruating and that you draw a comparison between their mindset and that of dogs and spiders. The uncharitable might suspect that beneath the ostentatious display of chivalry lurks rather a ugly misogyny.