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Salutations, Godless Ones

Started by Michael Reilly, March 25, 2012, 08:24:38 PM

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Michael Reilly

The world is full of crazy people.

One of my professors in college had a daughter who, at about age 9, was taking the SATs. (Seriously).

I said, "Man, your little girl is smart!"
She said, "I know she's smart. I want her to be nice."

My daughters are smart. I want them to be nice. God is love/let's help the helpless like Jesus did/we are blessed let's share is not a bad message for kids to absorb, in my opinion.

It's not bad for adults, either, but you are right about how it can turn toxic.

Sweetdeath

Quote from: MadBomr101 on March 28, 2012, 01:34:55 AM
Quote from: Michael Reilly on March 28, 2012, 12:51:45 AM
Humpty Dumpty was actually a cannon, FYI.
I find it easier to use God as an reason for being good whilst dealing with a 6 and 4 year old, quite frankly. When they are older, I'll tell them what I really think. It's too hard for them. Hell, it's hard for me.

So, sort of like Santa is to the Xmas spirit, Jesus is the fictional embodiment of the virtues you'd like your girls to have?  Okay.  I see what you're doing and I get it.  The only problem is that many children raised on Jesus tend to cling to the fallacy as reality their entire lives and it can really do some damage.  Case in point:  One of my neighbors has a daughter who tried to "Save" me when she was seven years old.

Seven!

I've watched her grow to adulthood (she's 20 now) and she is so messed up on God that she is incapable of having a thought that isn't motivated by her religious beliefs.  She has no life outside of Xianity and associates only with other Xians.  She's a very enthusiastic Xian activist who champions her causes with all the energy of her youth, and, if she had her way, would plunge this country back into the Dark Ages with her ridiculous beliefs.  If this sounds just fine to you, then, whatever, if not, then that's something for the atheists of the world to be hopeful about because this world needs fewer people like this complately brainwashed young woman.

Responsible parenting and Xianity are frequently mutually exclusive.  Fortunately, you seem much more reasonable than the Xian nutjob this young woman's mother is so that relaxes me. 

Just my $0.02.

Seven years old?? That is really depressing!
When I was 7, I was playing sega genesis and sonic the hedgehog. Sheesh...

I think nothing good can come out of introducing  god and religion to a poor child. Let them be children.
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

DeterminedJuliet

People need to do what's best for their kids, and I get that there are positive messages in a lot of organized religion.

But I gotta say, I was raised Catholic and I do feel like it screwed me up a little bit.
"We've thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you're dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

MadBomr101

Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 28, 2012, 04:32:28 AMSeven years old?? That is really depressing!
When I was 7, I was playing sega genesis and sonic the hedgehog. Sheesh...

I think nothing good can come out of introducing  god and religion to a poor child. Let them be children.

It's true, SD.  She handed me a piece of paper written in her little, seven year old scrawl that read "Jesus loves you." I asked her what this for and she asked me if I loved Jesus and how he loves all of us.  I was stunned.  I was listening to all the brainwashed crapola of the adults around her, particularly her lunatic mother, being parroted out of this little seven year old.  It was heartbreaking.  I knew this kid was probably already lost to Xian ignorance even at her delicate age. 

Sadly, I was right. 

She's a beautiful girl too but she's a kook now...just like mom.
- Bomr
I'm waiting for the movie of my life to be made.  It should cost about $7.23 and that includes the budget for special effects.

MadBomr101

Quote from: DeterminedJuliet on March 28, 2012, 04:47:51 AM
People need to do what's best for their kids, and I get that there are positive messages in a lot of organized religion.

But I gotta say, I was raised Catholic and I do feel like it screwed me up a little bit.

I was also raised Catholic from the time I was a small child.  Fortunately, I managed to shake off the effects of the kool-aid by the time I was in my early twenties.
- Bomr
I'm waiting for the movie of my life to be made.  It should cost about $7.23 and that includes the budget for special effects.

Sweetdeath

Quote from: MadBomr101 on March 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 28, 2012, 04:32:28 AMSeven years old?? That is really depressing!
When I was 7, I was playing sega genesis and sonic the hedgehog. Sheesh...

I think nothing good can come out of introducing  god and religion to a poor child. Let them be children.

It's true, SD.  She handed me a piece of paper written in her little, seven year old scrawl that read "Jesus loves you." I asked her what this for and she asked me if I loved Jesus and how he loves all of us.  I was stunned.  I was listening to all the brainwashed crapola of the adults around her, particularly her lunatic mother, being parroted out of this little seven year old.  It was heartbreaking.  I knew this kid was probably already lost to Xian ignorance even at her delicate age. 

Sadly, I was right. 

She's a beautiful girl too but she's a kook now...just like mom.


That truly breaks my heart.  The worst part of this is; it isn't considered child abuse...

Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Guardian85

Quote from: Michael Reilly on March 28, 2012, 01:44:36 AM
My daughters are smart. I want them to be nice. God is love/let's help the helpless like Jesus did/we are blessed let's share is not a bad message for kids to absorb, in my opinion.
It's not a bad message, but why use God/Jesus as an example? Religion and impressionable young kids can be like kerosene and fire if you are not careful.
Why not teach them to be good and helpful because it is the right thing to do? Teach by example not by the authority given by the great surveilance camera in the sky.


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
-Unknown Smartass-

Stevil

The golden rule could be useful when teaching kids social behaviour.

history_geek

Quote from: Stevil on March 28, 2012, 07:45:28 AM
The golden rule could be useful when teaching kids social behaviour.

That was perhaps the most emphasized piece of scripture that we were ever taught in religion classes. In between the journeys of the apostles...

P.S Oh, and welcome to the forum Michael Reilly ;D
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C Clarke's Third Law
"Any sufficiently advanced alien is indistinguishable from a god."
Pierre-Simon, marquis de Laplace:
Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothése - I do not require that hypothesis[img]http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/a/4eef2cc3548cc9844a491b22ad384546.gif[/i

Michael Reilly

I have no problem teaching my kiddos to believe in God as I define God. I keep the crazy stuff very far away from them. When they are older, and more capable of reasoning, I'll introduce them to my thinking on this issue, and--most critically--encourage them to think on their own. There are many, many good things about both belief and religious practice. In my experience, most atheists tend to generalize from the most extreme and worst types of religion/religious believers. That there are a lot--A LOT--of nutjobs out there is true. But that's not all that's true.

The Catholic thing can be a head trip, no doubt.

MadBomr101

Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 28, 2012, 05:59:26 AM
Quote from: MadBomr101 on March 28, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on March 28, 2012, 04:32:28 AMSeven years old?? That is really depressing!
When I was 7, I was playing sega genesis and sonic the hedgehog. Sheesh...

I think nothing good can come out of introducing  god and religion to a poor child. Let them be children.

It's true, SD.  She handed me a piece of paper written in her little, seven year old scrawl that read "Jesus loves you." I asked her what this for and she asked me if I loved Jesus and how he loves all of us.  I was stunned.  I was listening to all the brainwashed crapola of the adults around her, particularly her lunatic mother, being parroted out of this little seven year old.  It was heartbreaking.  I knew this kid was probably already lost to Xian ignorance even at her delicate age. 

Sadly, I was right. 

She's a beautiful girl too but she's a kook now...just like mom.


That truly breaks my heart.  The worst part of this is; it isn't considered child abuse...



Not only is it not considered child abuse, most of the people in this goofy Xian nation would consider good, responsible parenting.  Ironic, ain't it?   ??? 
- Bomr
I'm waiting for the movie of my life to be made.  It should cost about $7.23 and that includes the budget for special effects.

Ali

Quote from: Michael Reilly on March 28, 2012, 10:29:55 AM
I have no problem teaching my kiddos to believe in God as I define God.

This is fair.  We teach our kids our belief systems which some might consider "wrong" (remember my "confrontation" with the lady at daycare that was "appalled" that I would tell my 3 year old that I don't believe in god?) but I believe that it's every parent's right to talk to their kids honestly about what they believe.

I think calling teaching kids about god "child abuse" is pretty heavy handed and kind of minimizes actual child abuse.  Certainly there are nutjobs that take it into the realm of child abuse, but I think that calling something as relatively benign as teaching your kids "Let's be like Jesus and help others" child abuse is kind of ridiculous, tbh. 

Amicale

Quote from: Ali on March 28, 2012, 03:49:26 PM
Quote from: Michael Reilly on March 28, 2012, 10:29:55 AM
I have no problem teaching my kiddos to believe in God as I define God.

This is fair.  We teach our kids our belief systems which some might consider "wrong" (remember my "confrontation" with the lady at daycare that was "appalled" that I would tell my 3 year old that I don't believe in god?) but I believe that it's every parent's right to talk to their kids honestly about what they believe.

I think calling teaching kids about god "child abuse" is pretty heavy handed and kind of minimizes actual child abuse.  Certainly there are nutjobs that take it into the realm of child abuse, but I think that calling something as relatively benign as teaching your kids "Let's be like Jesus and help others" child abuse is kind of ridiculous, tbh. 

Right on, Ali. I think it's harmless for children to learn some general, neutral concepts, ie, the "let's be like Jesus and help others" if that's what a parent wants to teach their child. One thing I'm starting with mine and a friend's child who I babysit from time to time is, every now and again, we'll read a story about a hero who helped people, was kind to others, etc. I'm picking characters from all over history and mythology, and then we have a little chat about which people might be real, and which are pretend, and why the story is a good story anyway. The character of Jesus can definitely be one of those "heroes". I have no problem with that. :)

I don't think teaching kids the general precepts of compassion, kindness, awe, etc in the name of religion is child abuse. Westboro Baptist is child abuse. Jesus Camp is child abuse, at least mentally/emotionally. It's a form of mental/emotional abuse to threaten children with hell, threaten them with supernatural punishments for not doing or thinking as you'd want them to -- but just teaching a child "let's be like Jesus and help others" certainly is NOT abuse, not by a long shot.


"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb we are bound to others. By every crime and act of kindness we birth our future." - Cloud Atlas

"To live in the hearts of those we leave behind is to never die." -Carl Sagan

Michael Reilly

Unfortunately, many people do fall into the "Jesus Camp" school of religious instruction, which is unfortunate and very damaging. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't do that, nor does anyone I know (but I live in New England, where sanity reigns).

Sweetdeath

Quote from: Michael Reilly on March 28, 2012, 06:47:54 PM
Unfortunately, many people do fall into the "Jesus Camp" school of religious instruction, which is unfortunate and very damaging. I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't do that, nor does anyone I know (but I live in New England, where sanity reigns).

Yeah, that's scary stuff.


But do you teach your kids jesus is a myth like santa or Odin , or a fact?
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.