Drugs....

[yepimonfire]

should they or should they not be illegal?

i do not use marijuana, but personally i believe it should be legal for consumption by adults. obviously it should be a controlled substance similar to alcohol (no smoking and driving etc.) but what about hard drugs like cocaine, heroine, meth etc?

i was thinking the other day and maybe i am incorrect, but think about drugs that aren't illegal. nicotine, caffeine and alcohol.

let's stick with nicotine as i am familiar with it (i use it). a nicotine addict, be it a smoker, chewer, or anything else, is constantly needing a fix throughout the day, i can personally say it is incredibly addictive and going without it for more then about an hour or two is pure hell. however, nicotine since it is legal and regulated by the govt. poses no real threat to the publics well being and only to the addict (minus secondhand smoke, but that is besides the point). there are no crimes commited due to people being "druggies" and having to secretly manufacture, sell, or obtain tobacco products. however, if tobacco was suddenly outlawed, knowing how powerful this drug is and how addictive it is i could easily see it causing the same issues with crime as any other drug does.

thoughts? anyone?

[Tank]

I'm not sure. So here's a question. What would the world be like if all 'drugs' were allowed? I'm not sure. However consider the damage that the current legal drugs cause. Would we simply not be letting lose a whole new set of dangers? I like alchohol, tobacco (cigars) and coffee. But I don't use them too often, except possibly coffee. If one considers the three current mass consumption drugs do they do more harm than good?

[yepimonfire]

I'm not sure. So here's a question. What would the world be like if all 'drugs' were allowed? I'm not sure. However consider the damage that the current legal drugs cause. Would we simply not be letting lose a whole new set of dangers? I like alchohol, tobacco (cigars) and coffee. But I don't use them too often, except possibly coffee. If one considers the three current mass consumption drugs do the do more harm than good?

depends. some of it depends on genetics. i myself have pledged to NEVER EVER use any drug, any alcohol etc. i have enough problems with nicotine and caffeine. i have addictive personality genes. it runs in my family. i know that if i ever use anything the possibility of me becoming a slave to it is very high. i was suffering withdrawal symptoms from nicotine a few hours after my first cigarette. one puff and i was hooked, ive attempte to quit smoking probably 30 times. my mom is a smoker, my dad is a smoker, my grandma was a smoker, her husband was a smoker etc etc etc. i remember reading somewhere when someone suffers an addiction those genetics can actually be passed on and offspring can have a higher potential of becoming addicted and even already have the circuts created in the brain for those addictions, just waiting to be activated.

drug problems are only really a problem when addiction is involved. but it really depends on people. i know people who smoke occasionally but aren't "smokers". i know people who drink but aren't alcoholics. i know people who smoke weed occasionally but aren't potheads. the problem is people can obtain drugs legal or illegal. the govt regulating certain substances for recreational use could possibly cut way down on the crimes involved with them (from trafficking etc).

[Davin]

I'm not sure. So here's a question. What would the world be like if all 'drugs' were allowed? I'm not sure. However consider the damage that the current legal drugs cause. Would we simply not be letting lose a whole new set of dangers? I like alchohol, tobacco (cigars) and coffee. But I don't use them too often, except possibly coffee. If one considers the three current mass consumption drugs do they do more harm than good?

The other consideration is, how much damage does making these drugs illegal do? How many drug mules would there be if it were legal to transport the drugs? How many violent drug cartels would there be if drugs were legal? How many users, who did nothing but subject themselves to drugs, would there be in jail? Right now, there is a huge problem in my state with violent people trying to protect and sell their drugs, there might be a few more people using the drugs, but there'd be a shit ton fewer deaths from drug battles.

[yepimonfire]

I'm not sure. So here's a question. What would the world be like if all 'drugs' were allowed? I'm not sure. However consider the damage that the current legal drugs cause. Would we simply not be letting lose a whole new set of dangers? I like alchohol, tobacco (cigars) and coffee. But I don't use them too often, except possibly coffee. If one considers the three current mass consumption drugs do they do more harm than good?

The other consideration is, how much damage does making these drugs illegal do? How many drug mules would there be if it were legal to transport the drugs? How many violent drug cartels would there be if drugs were legal? How many users, who did nothing but subject themselves to drugs, would there be in jail? Right now, there is a huge problem in my state with violent people trying to protect and sell their drugs, there might be a few more people using the drugs, but there'd be a shit ton fewer deaths from drug battles.

this is exactly the point im attempting to make.

[Whitney]

Just because something is a drug doesn't mean it is bad...for instance, studies are now showing that coffee, like tea, is actually good for you (in moderation of course).  http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-scientific-ways-coffee-gives-you-super-powers/  Even moderate consumption of alcohol may have health benefits (over consumption is of course negative) http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

The next thing to look at is does it cause harm to society if used as intended as that's the only reason to make something totally illegal.

Cigarettes....can't think of how it is harmful to society once second hand smoke exposure situations are limited to designated areas.

Alcohol....only harmful to society if drunk driving occurs.

Caffeine...no harm to society that I can think of; if anything it helps by making people more alert when driving to work in the morning.

Weed....only harmful to society if high driving occurs.

Alcohol and Caffeine are safe for the individual too as long as they are not abused to the point of addiction.

Weed tends not to be something people get addicted to the point of smoking daily...so on the personal harm level it is safer that Cigarettes.

So...logically, if anything should be illegal of the above as none of them cause immediate harm to society then cigarettes would make more sense than weed.

I think all of the above should be legal as there is really no good argument for them not being so.   There are harder drugs that are much easier to make a case for their societal harm as they lead to crime in order to feed the expensive addiction or due to damage to the brain so that the person makes rash decisions.

I don't smoke weed because it is illegal and because I don't care for that feeling.  I don't even know if I'd try it again if it were legalized.

[yepimonfire]

Just because something is a drug doesn't mean it is bad...for instance, studies are now showing that coffee, like tea, is actually good for you (in moderation of course).  http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-scientific-ways-coffee-gives-you-super-powers/  Even moderate consumption of alcohol may have health benefits (over consumption is of course negative) http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

The next thing to look at is does it cause harm to society if used as intended as that's the only reason to make something totally illegal.

Cigarettes....can't think of how it is harmful to society once second hand smoke exposure situations are limited to designated areas.

Alcohol....only harmful to society if drunk driving occurs.

Caffeine...no harm to society that I can think of; if anything it helps by making people more alert when driving to work in the morning.

Weed....only harmful to society if high driving occurs.

Alcohol and Caffeine are safe for the individual too as long as they are not abused to the point of addiction.

Weed tends not to be something people get addicted to the point of smoking daily...so on the personal harm level it is safer that Cigarettes.

So...logically, if anything should be illegal of the above as none of them cause immediate harm to society then cigarettes would make more sense than weed.

I think all of the above should be legal as there is really no good argument for them not being so.   There are harder drugs that are much easier to make a case for their societal harm as they lead to crime in order to feed the expensive addiction or due to damage to the brain so that the person makes rash decisions.

I don't smoke weed because it is illegal and because I don't care for that feeling.  I don't even know if I'd try it again if it were legalized.

some "hard" drugs can be potentially useful as well. all of my life i have suffered ADD....and i mean TERRIBLE ADD. i wouldn't have even made it through grade school if it wasn't for amphetamines. (adderal etc). although we may not be talking about medical uses for drugs here i can tell you amphetamines have nearly the same effect on the brain as caffeine does, it only becomes harmful if it is abused without regard to moderation. caffeine can be harmful too. i've had points in my life where i have consumed way too much caffeine for a long period of time (like pots and pots of coffee) to where it had visibly negative effects on my health. i was having PVC's almost daily and felt worn out and strung out all the time. i simply backed off for a few weeks and used more common sense and everything was back to normal. whats wrong and harmful to society if a truck driver uses amphetamines occasionally to get through a long tiring shift? honestly nothing. in fact its helpful because he is not going to fall asleep and kill people on the highway.

of course, things like LSD and other hallucigens are CERTAINLY not safe for ANYONE at ANY time.

[Whitney]

Ya, I wasn't talking about medical drugs used as prescribed.

Meth is the most common form of amphetamine drugs on the black market; but it's a drug cocktail of various harsh chemicals plus some of the OTC (now behind the counter) amphetamines...I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a truck driver who is on that stuff and if you've ever seen someone tweaking out on the stuff you'd understand why. 

[Tank]

I'm not sure. So here's a question. What would the world be like if all 'drugs' were allowed? I'm not sure. However consider the damage that the current legal drugs cause. Would we simply not be letting lose a whole new set of dangers? I like alchohol, tobacco (cigars) and coffee. But I don't use them too often, except possibly coffee. If one considers the three current mass consumption drugs do they do more harm than good?

The other consideration is, how much damage does making these drugs illegal do? How many drug mules would there be if it were legal to transport the drugs? How many violent drug cartels would there be if drugs were legal? How many users, who did nothing but subject themselves to drugs, would there be in jail? Right now, there is a huge problem in my state with violent people trying to protect and sell their drugs, there might be a few more people using the drugs, but there'd be a shit ton fewer deaths from drug battles.

And that's the flip side of the coin in a nutshell. So there really is no easy answer is there?

[hismikeness]

The following is based on US law only, as I'm not familiar with laws in other countries:

I've read that the production of the opium derivative used in prescription pain killers such as vicodin, percoset and oxy-contin has more than quintupled in the last few years. Let's not kid ourselves as to the reason that the US is in Afghanistan, one of the world's leading exporters of poppy.

From Wikipedia

Opium production in Afghanistan has been on the rise since U.S. occupation started in 2001. Based on UNODC data, there has been more opium poppy cultivation in each of the past four growing seasons (2004–2007) than in any one year during Taliban rule. Also, more land is now used for opium in Afghanistan than for coca cultivation in Latin America. In 2007, 92% of the non-pharmaceutical-grade opiates on the world market originated in Afghanistan.

So the pharmaceutical companies get richer, while the US continues to keep illegal a natural plant that makes you silly.  ???

As to whether weed is less harmful than cigarettes, even if used daily, the volume of smoke breathed in to the lungs is far less, because I seriously doubt anyone smokes joints the way they do cigarettes, ie: 20-40 a day. Instead, they may smoke joints 3 or 4 times a day at most. On top of that, there are no added chemicals in weed the way there is for cigarettes.

The whole thing is backwards to me. Cultivation of the plant is illegal even for the myriad uses of hemp (paper, clothing, etc).

[Tank]

{snip}

The whole thing is backwards to me. Cultivation of the plant is illegal even for the myriad uses of hemp (paper, clothing, etc).

There is a company in the UK creating a 'drug free' hemp plant that can be cultivated. On a secret test planting somebody figured they'd stumbled on heaven and stoll the lot. Can you imagine them all puffing away furiously and getting no result 

[Twentythree]

The drug issue to me is really quite simple when I boil it down. Virtually all drugs including manufactured drugs are safer as far as the physical damage they inflict than most household and certainly industrial cleansing products. As a matter of fact I'm a painter and if someone asked me to do a hit of meth or swig some of my paint thinner I would grudgingly but without debate choose the methamphetamine. So if we look at the dangerous and fatal materials we are able to walk into a wal-mart and buy on daily basis we have to immediately rule out public health as a primary concern for the illegalization of any drug. When you look back at when, how and why certain drugs were illegalized you can almost always attribute them to a political or social agenda. Think about any mainstream illegal drug and then ask yourselves a few key questions about it and you will probably soon discover the root of its illegality lies somewhere far from public health.

#1 – Who stands to profit from its widespread social acceptance and legality or in other words which groups or countries stand to increase their economic power in the world with these drugs legalized.
#2 – Who stands to profit from its illegalization or its remaining illegal.

Think about the money that is tied up in anti drug programs and law enforcement. Think about the state, federal and private prisons that would suffer from decreased inmate population. Also consider the pharmaceutical companies. These companies want control over both helpful and harmful forms of drugs they want to be able to set the price standards and they do not want competition. If a small hit of opium is cheaper and better than or comparable to refined vicodin, why would a very wealthy pharmaceutical company allow legislation to be passed that would allow a competitor like opium poppies to be introduced into the market.

#3 – what does it cause people to do. What sort of psychological/cultural effects does it have on the user and will this affect their alliances to state, country or religion.

Think about both the early uses of MDMA and LSD, then think about the political climates that caused both to become fiercely opposed. Not by Joe America but by larger political interests. Just think back to the scare tactics and blatant lying that had to take place in order to gain public support for the illegalization of marijuana. Think about cigarette smoke, think about how blatant the public health concerns had to be in order for there to be considerable opposition and then look into how deeply America was involved in profiting from the cultivation and sale of tobacco products.

I know that some of this stuff seems all "conspiracy theory" but I am firm on the position that in any discussion about the legality of drugs, public heath should be thrown out as a reason for debate. If public health and safety were of paramount concern. We would not be able to buy poison at the drugstore in the form of bleach, antifreeze, beer, wine, cigarettes or ibuprofen. We would not be able to buy substances that have been demonstrated and proven to cause birth defects, liver disease, cancer, an increase in violence among users and increase in vehicular fatalities among users. Clinical depression and addiction, suicide, infanticide or any of a myriad of public health and safety concerns that are directly associated with things that are readily attainable at any neighborhood drug store.

[AnimatedDirt]

Loving and hungry people...that's what seems to be the biggest problem of legalizing marijuana.

On the subject of the other hard drugs...I'm not too keen on legalizing.

[Davin]

I'm not sure. So here's a question. What would the world be like if all 'drugs' were allowed? I'm not sure. However consider the damage that the current legal drugs cause. Would we simply not be letting lose a whole new set of dangers? I like alchohol, tobacco (cigars) and coffee. But I don't use them too often, except possibly coffee. If one considers the three current mass consumption drugs do they do more harm than good?

The other consideration is, how much damage does making these drugs illegal do? How many drug mules would there be if it were legal to transport the drugs? How many violent drug cartels would there be if drugs were legal? How many users, who did nothing but subject themselves to drugs, would there be in jail? Right now, there is a huge problem in my state with violent people trying to protect and sell their drugs, there might be a few more people using the drugs, but there'd be a shit ton fewer deaths from drug battles.

And that's the flip side of the coin in a nutshell. So there really is no easy answer is there?

Definitely is not. Even if we determine that great harm comes from keeping certain drugs illegal, it doesn't necessarily mean that we should make them legal. As much as I feel that everyone should be in control of what they do to their own bodies, I still don't think it's a clear issue and that everything should just be allowed. Anyway, the considerations I brought up were in addition to the considerations you brought up and those aren't even all the considerations I can think of.

[Davin]

Ya, I wasn't talking about medical drugs used as prescribed.

Meth is the most common form of amphetamine drugs on the black market; but it's a drug cocktail of various harsh chemicals plus some of the OTC (now behind the counter) amphetamines...I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a truck driver who is on that stuff and if you've ever seen someone tweaking out on the stuff you'd understand why.

I know, one of my friends got ran over by an 18 wheeler being driven by someone on meth, his motorcycle and helmet offered little protection.