News:

if there were no need for 'engineers from the quantum plenum' then we should not have any unanswered scientific questions.

Main Menu

Try again

Started by McQ, July 11, 2006, 01:29:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

McQ

I've copied and pasted this in the religion section in hopes that maybe onlyme will now answer it. Still needs a reply. Onlyme, are you up to it?
McQ

Quote from: "onlyme"to all of you who expressed an interest in my posts, firstly i am a Christian because i got in trouble when i was 15 and got locked up. Jesus Himself came into my life, and saved me, and set me free, and even spoke to me. I know for a fact He's real, from personal experience. also, how can anything else in life really matter if God is not behind it? for example, how can you look at your kids and not be thankful for them? or believe they came from monkeys, or are just the result of a meaningless cosmic accident. that isnt valuing them, i dont think. Besides, God represents and teaches whats best for us, its just people who dont live up to His ideal, so He gets the blame. also, as regards this forum, i was wondering why you lot get together to discuss something that you don't believe in. if people share a belief in something, they can get together and discuss it, but how or why do you share a discussion about what you DONT believe in?

Well, we're not going to get very far if you can't answer the simple question I posed to you. I'll wait for your answer to what specific act or action you did to become a Christian. Just saying that Jesus "came into" your life and saved you and that you spoke to him doesn't tell me anything. What did YOU do? I'm asking you this because as a person raised Roman Catholic I know that there are multiple arguments as to how one can be called "Christian". I left that church and became a "Born Again" Christian in college. I had to make a deliberate action in order to do that. So I'm asking you what route you took. Take the time to try and answer it properly so we have a starting point. Otherwise you are wasting my time and yours, because we won't even be able to come to an agreement as to what a "Christian" is. Or even how to become one. Let's try and get that done first. Then we can talk.

Additionally, don't assume that the people here haven't been where you are right now. That would be arrogant and wrong. I taught Sunday School in a Southern Baptist Church to adults and high school students. I have been through two year-long intensive Bible studies.

I am very pleased, thankful and thrilled every time I look at my kids or even think about them, for that matter. I don't need any god to help me with that. I no longer consider myself a Christian, because I no longer believe there is a God, god, or gods of any kind. No horrible experience led me to this conclusion, just common sense, rational thinking and studying the Bible. I highly recommend intensive Bible study to assist anyone who wants to see how bogus the Bible is, by the way.

Now, don't forget to answer the initial question I posed. Ignore answering these other paragraphs. They were to give you some idea of who you were talking to. We'll get to them in time.
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

Asmodean Prime

#1
first of all McQ, i dont know what you mean by 'switch to full edit form'

anyway, since you said you became born again at a certain time in your past, well, i think i probably mean it the same as you understood it. i mean that i called out to God (in desperation actually), this went on for over a week, and one morning He answered me.  Without warning, i was absolutely surrounded by an INCREDIBLE light and assurance of God's love for me.  I got up and walked out of that room in air.  He then showed me in my spirit that He was going to get me out of that place in 10 days time, this wasnt an audible voice, just an incredibly sharp, erm, sort of revelation.

also, this place was full of all sorts of bad and vicious characters.  i just wanted out, desperately,
well, God actually then spoke to me in an audible voice at one point when i was sat in this room looking around at these 'undesireables'

this is what He said:

"These are my children.  Love them."

i was then filled with an incredible love for these people, which didn't come from me.  it was overwhelming.   over the next 10 days, he showed me tangibly on many occasions that He was with me.

On the 10th day, i was released.  of course,  i already knew that was going to happen.

this is just a short description of some of the things i experienced.  i hope it helps you to understand, and i hope you got to read this post.  i wasnt aware that you had previously posted a question that i had failed to reply to.

Ha ha, i've just found that full edit mode you mentioned. anyway, in conclusion, all this happened when i was 15, i'm now 42, i've let God down many times in many ways, but for some reason He has continued to be faithful to me, maybe because i was willing to humble myself before Him all those years ago.  different people have different levels of experience, i believe, at different times.  what i cant understand is, how can you believe, or know something at one time, and then now say you don;t believe?

i could never deny what i've seen and experienced.  i often dont live as though all this happened, i admit it, with a secret shame, but i couldnt deny it, not to myself at least.
after all, i've got to be true to myself.

McQ

#2
Onlyme, that is pretty much what I was asking about. You've answered the question of what happened to you, or what you did to become a Christian. If I understand correctly, you had a vision. Or better stated that you were engulfed in an experiental phenomenon that you took to be a spiritual event caused by God Himself. That answers my question to some extent. But what denomination of Christianity are you? What doctrine do you follow? Are you a member of an organized church? This at least gives us a starting point if I know where you're coming from.

As for you not understanding how I could believe at one time, and not later, I'm sorry. It is possible to change one's mind on something like this. I don't know how to explain it any better.

I also don't know why the "switch to full edit mode" showed up in the post. I didn't put it there. It's probably some code or instruction within the web page itself.
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

Whitney

#3
Quote from: "onlyme"what i cant understand is, how can you believe, or know something at one time, and then now say you don;t believe?

Was there ever a time in your life that you didn't believe in a god of some sort?  

Anyway, I think the various de-conversion stories people wrote in the introductions section would provide some insight on how someone can believe in a god then decide their belief was wrong.

Court

#4
Quote from: "onlyme"what i cant understand is, how can you believe, or know something at one time, and then now say you don;t believe?

I know some fundies find this comparison insulting, but it's the best. Did you ever believe in Santa Clause? I mean, really believe? You actually thought he flew around with his reindeer to every house in the world magically in one night. I mean, that's pretty gullible, right?

But then you grew up. You realized reindeer can't fly and magic isn't real. That's how I don't believe in god. I grew up and I realized prayers don't work and god isn't real. And it had the "well, no shit, how could I have believed something so stupid for so long?" feel about it, kind of like when I realized Santa wasn't real.
[size=92]
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
[/size]
[size=92]
try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

McQ

#5
Quote from: "Court"
Quote from: "onlyme"what i cant understand is, how can you believe, or know something at one time, and then now say you don;t believe?

I know some fundies find this comparison insulting, but it's the best. Did you ever believe in Santa Clause? I mean, really believe? You actually thought he flew around with his reindeer to every house in the world magically in one night. I mean, that's pretty gullible, right?

But then you grew up. You realized reindeer can't fly and magic isn't real. That's how I don't believe in god. I grew up and I realized prayers don't work and god isn't real. And it had the "well, no shit, how could I have believed something so stupid for so long?" feel about it, kind of like when I realized Santa wasn't real.

Nice point, Court. I think that is an appropriate analogy. Wait...
you said Santa Claus ISN'T real?



shit




 :(
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

TwistOfCain

#6
I still believe in Santa Claus in the back of my brain. It keeps me awake on Christmas Eve.
Not about to see your light
But if you wanna find Hell with me
I can show you what it's like.
-Danzig, Mother

"I AM THOTH! AND I WILL NOT BE HUMBLED -- BY MAN OR GOD!"
-Thoth-Amon, The Book of Thoth

Big Mac

#7
I used to believe in Santa Claus until Chuck Norris round house kicked him in the head. And then he had one word for the reindeer: venison........
Quote from: "PoopShoot"And what if pigs shit candy?

TwistOfCain

#8
AGH! When will this Chuck Norris fascination die?!
Not about to see your light
But if you wanna find Hell with me
I can show you what it's like.
-Danzig, Mother

"I AM THOTH! AND I WILL NOT BE HUMBLED -- BY MAN OR GOD!"
-Thoth-Amon, The Book of Thoth

Big Mac

#9
Dude, he's Walker, Texas Ranger. I mean he uses his roundhouse kick more than a Chinese Stripper!
Quote from: "PoopShoot"And what if pigs shit candy?

Court

#10
I'm with you, Twist. Roundhouse kicks does not equal cool. :)
[size=92]
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
[/size]
[size=92]
try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

Jassman

#11
I've been practicing roundhouse kicks all week until reading this:

Quote from: "Court"I'm with you, Twist. Roundhouse kicks does not equal cool.

Dammit...
[size=75]"You ever notice how people who believe in creationism look really unevolved?" -Bill Hicks[/size]

[size=75]I'm drowning in the fear of gods. The more I see the less I want. I was not raised

Court

#12
:lol:
Oh, you boys are funny. My boss must know I'm not working because I keep laughing.
[size=92]
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
[/size]
[size=92]
try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

Big Mac

#13
Quote from: "Court"I'm with you, Twist. Roundhouse kicks does not equal cool. :)

Dude, don't dis the Norris Man. Chuck Norris is the closest thing I believe in a deity. I mean, he CAN touch MC Hammer and he CAN believe it's not butter!
Quote from: "PoopShoot"And what if pigs shit candy?

MommaSquid

#14
Top 10 Chuck Norris Facts from http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/

1. Guns don't kill people. Chuck Norris kills People.
2. There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of animals Chuck Norris allows to live.  
3. Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits.  
4. The chief export of Chuck Norris is Pain.  
5. There is no chin under Chuck Norris' Beard. There is only another fist.  
6. Chuck Norris has two speeds. Walk and Kill.  
7. The leading causes of death in the United States are:
       1. Heart Disease
       2. Chuck Norris    
       3. Cancer  
8. Chuck Norris drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls.  
9. Chuck Norris is my Homeboy.  
10. Chuck Norris doesn't go hunting.... CHUCK NORRIS GOES KILLING

(Personal favorites #3 and #10)