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General => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Dave on June 02, 2018, 06:41:50 PM

Title: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 02, 2018, 06:41:50 PM
Branching of from the other discussions on language, and this probably also applies to Spanish . . . Even Portuguese? The problem that because a country speaks the same language you do (well, near enough) it is difficult to view them as a very different culture, as foreigners with different values.

Jon Sopel, American editor for the BBC, who got up Chump's nose on day one by admitting his affiliation,
Sopel: "[. . .]  BBC",
Chump: "Another beauty ."

Sopel has now written a book:

Quote"If Only They Didn't Speak English: Notes From Trump's America"

'You see, if only they didn't speak English in America, then we'd treat it as a foreign country – and probably understand it a lot better'

As the BBC's North America Editor, Jon Sopel has experienced the United States from a perspective that most of us could only dream of: he has flown aboard Air Force One, interviewed President Obama and was famously described as 'a beauty' by Donald Trump.

Through music, film, literature, TV and even through the food we eat and the clothes that we wear we all have a highly developed sense of what America is and through our shared, tangled history we claim a special relationship. But America today feels about as alien a country as you could imagine. It is fearful, angry and impatient for change.

In this fascinating, insightful portrait of American life and politics, Jon Sopel sets out to answer our questions about a country that once stood for the grandest of dreams, but which is now mired in a storm of political extremism, racial division and increasingly perverse beliefs.

It's available on Amazon and is Kindled.

Trouble is I often think some parts of America are foriegn countries to other parts.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 02, 2018, 11:42:50 PM
Quote from: Dave on June 02, 2018, 06:41:50 PM

Trouble is I often think some parts of America are foriegn countries to other parts.

You're right about that.  People are finally admitting that John Edwards had a point when he said there were two Americas.  But he said that some 15 yrs ago and the problem is now much worse.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Icarus on June 03, 2018, 05:47:49 AM
I recently watched a TV snippit in which John Boehner, former Speaker of the House, said: There is no Republican party, there is only the Trump party.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 03, 2018, 08:20:51 AM
Quote from: Icarus on June 03, 2018, 05:47:49 AM
I recently watched a TV snippit in which John Boehner, former Speaker of the House, said: There is no Republican party, there is only the Trump party.

This is getting OT: but this from a Republican!? Shows that there are still a few people with sense and integrity in that party. Or just a cynical outlook?

So, America has divided into Trumpites and non-Trumpites rather than Reps and Dems? Used to be rabid gun + religious nuts and the rest but the nuts seem to be a subset of the Trumpites now.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Arturo on June 03, 2018, 04:55:24 PM
I don't know how people can support Trump when he hasn't done anything he said he would. All he has done is make things good for small amounts of already rich and powerful people. Price of food is going up, price of gas is going up. Jobs aren't coming back as much as they say they are because the practicality of the things that they say need to happen are not doable on the scale we need them to be done in the time frame we have (which is asap whenever the Turnip runs his mouth and nobody wants to be scurrying around for an ass like that all day every day. Trust me I would know, I can be an ass).
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Recusant on June 03, 2018, 11:53:00 PM
He's done plenty, including fulfilling at least some campaign promises. People may not find his "accomplishments" in office to their liking, but with Republicans controlling both houses of Congress, the list is rather long. One of the most important is bringing to fruition what was begun with the despicable tactic of blocking Obama's last Supreme Court nomination; installing a healthy and (comparatively) young right-wing ideologue in that seat for life.

From a Trump cheerleader:

QuoteSecured the release of prisoners of the DPRK
Moved US embassy to Jerusalem
Business investment up 39% due to tax cut
Highest ever manufacturers optimism (94%)
Declared November 7 a National Day of Remembrance for the Victims of Communism
Homebuilding permits nearing record high
Consumer confidence at record high
US oil production up to highest level in 50 years, reducing dependence on foreign oil
Nominates first female head of the CIA
Reduce regulatory burden to levels from the 1970s, eliminating regulations 22 for every one passed.
Signed bill into law to combat opiod dependence
Repeal Obamacare individual mandate
Gave troops the largest pay raise in 7 years
New space policy directive calling for human expansion into the solar system
Shut down CIA finding of Syrian rebels
Pulled us out of Iran Deal
Nearing talks with Kim Jong Un for denuclearization of Korea
Pulled us out of Kyoto
Sanctions on companies doing business with the DPRK
Cut the White House Budget
Opened Small Business Administration Assistance offices
Annihilated ISIS
Reduced border crossings to historic lows
Deportations of illegal aliens up 40%
April 2018 declared the best month in US history for the budget, says the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
Mining up 29%
Unemployment at lowest level in decades, and lowest level in history for blacks and hispanics.
First ever audit of the Department of Defense
Launched Veteran's Complaint Hotline for VA
Streamlined system for veteran's medical records
passed accountability and whistleblower protection at the VA
Signed Forever GI Bill, boosting aid to veterans
Signed Global Magnitsky Act to fight corruption and human rights abuses
Suspended $2 billion in aid to Pakistan
Reduced refugee admissions to 15-year low
Increased vetting of incoming foreign nationals from high-risk countries
Withdrew $300 million in foreign aid to Egypt
Signed antiterrorism treaty with Qatar
Reached trade agreement with China on natural gas, beef and poultry
Ordered study to be completed on abuses of trade agreements
Terminated the Transpacific partnership
Renegotiating NAFTA with Canada and Mexico
Reached Agreement with China to open Chinese rice market to US exports for the first time in history
Increased US coal exports 60%
World Bank initiative to foster entrepreneurship among women
50 initiatives as part of his plan to reduce prescription drug prices and costs

Note that plenty of things on the list can rightly be considered harmful to the future of the US and in some cases the world as a whole, and some others can't be claimed legitimately as accomplishments of Trump's, but then again, it's from a Trump cheerleader.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 04, 2018, 06:21:49 AM
^
An impressive kooking list!

* Was every item in that list actually initiated during Trump's regime or were any inherited from the Obama admin?

* There are times when political actions obey an abbreviated version Newton's third law, "Every action has an opposite reaction." "Equality" is difficult to measure over short periods.

Thus, though they had little chance of victory against the Assad-Putin alliance, not supporting the Syrian rebels is, basicaly, a small step in supporting Russia's foothold in the Near/Middle East.

Reducing the aid to Pakistan may, in effect, increase the support for the factions there that support radical/fundamental Islamism. Though, I have to admit, I have little respect for countries with nuclear weapon and/or space programmes and/or severe corruption who claim they need foreign aid.

North Kprea's actions, even when they appear to give in, may reflect their plans and policies mire than that of foreigners. If they give you something be wary of the hidden costs. NK is vurrently cosying up to Russia who have an interest in making things difficult for the West (though the West so often do a pretty good job beating up each other with potential tariff laws etc..)

Analysis could well reveal obvious or hidden downsides to many of these "achievements", but that is so for all political actions - the balance between good and bad is often delicate.

The Chinese and Russians (and Islam) have, traditionally, taken a long view of history, planned for the next century rather than the next four year political term of office. Works well for (near) totalitarisn regimes, long, slow changes can work as well as, or better than, short sharp battles if a regime feels secure in its position.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 19, 2018, 04:42:28 AM
Quote from: Dave on June 02, 2018, 06:41:50 PM
Branching of from the other discussions on language, and this probably also applies to Spanish . . . Even Portuguese? The problem that because a country speaks the same language you do (well, near enough) it is difficult to view them as a very different culture, as foreigners with different values.

Heh, in Brazil there are states that have tried to secede from the union, the only one that was successful was Uruguay, in which the people speak another language.

Language, among other things, does give one a national identity, even if there are divergences from the standard grammatical way of saying and writing things. I think in large territories such as the US and even Brazil even if there is technically one language, there could unofficially be more than one "country" within the nation's borders, especially if there are subpopulations that are isolated either geographically, by economic status or ideologically. 
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Arturo on June 19, 2018, 12:49:43 PM
That's a good point xSPx. I often think of corporations as shadow governments and Kingdoms. Especially since they are always so competitive with trying to destroy or take over another business or their property AND they like to give themselves a lot of money while the ones at the bottom suffer.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Icarus on June 23, 2018, 12:55:35 AM
Astute observation Silver. 

In my country we have variations of the English language, nay American language, which are at odds with the Oxford English Dictionary, big time.  Most of the time we can decipher what the hell a backwoods West Virginian is talking about but it does take some analytical effort.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: OldGit on June 23, 2018, 09:40:51 AM
Try understanding a conversation between two Glaswegians who don't want you to. :Gaah:
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 23, 2018, 11:33:02 AM
Quote from: OldGit on June 23, 2018, 09:40:51 AM
Try understanding a conversation between two Glaswegians who don't want you to. :Gaah:

Glesga 101

https://youtu.be/_FSWlfcg6oA
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 23, 2018, 02:06:58 PM
Quote from: OldGit on June 23, 2018, 09:40:51 AM
Try understanding a conversation between two Glaswegians who don't want you to. :Gaah:

OG! Awright! :grin:
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 23, 2018, 02:22:04 PM
Many, many years ago I was going out with a nurse who lived in a hostel where Phillipino domestics also lived. They had one payphone near the front door.

I tried phoning Kay once, the conversation went something like this:

Ring, ring
" 'Allo?"
"Can I speak to Kay please?"
"Qué?"
"Yes, Kay."
"Qué?"
"Yes ... nurse Kay."
"Qué?"
. . .

At this point Kay was passing and took over the conversation, just before I put the phone down.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 23, 2018, 11:30:54 PM
Agree with SP that language is a national identifier, and I suggest it is the main one.  You immediately notice when someone is not proficient in your language.  Accent is not that significant, but if you fumble with the grammar and vocab, people notice and identify you as "other". 
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Icarus on June 24, 2018, 01:22:36 AM
Sort of like Glaswegian, some of our more bucolic citizens use terms such as "y'all come".  That is an expression of courtesy that invites a visitor to return soon for another visit.   This observation is not to demean them in any way. They use terms with mutual understanding and it works for them.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Bluenose on June 24, 2018, 06:11:02 AM
I find differences in language fascinating.  One of my favourites is the language used in the Navy.  Most people know about words like deck, bulkhead etc, but how many know what these words mean?

Squarie
Redders
Goffa
Gash
Snotty
Roughers
Scran
Slops
Kellick (or killick)
Maccas (and no, it's not McDonald's)
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 24, 2018, 07:12:04 AM
Gash - rubbish? spare?
Snotty - midshipman?
Scran - food? Especially scrounged or casual.
Kellick (or killick) - anchor? Bosun or Petty officer of similar rank?

The first and third were those in RAFese

Other RAFese:
Erk
Yonks
Clag
Cat 5
Snowdrop
Fizzer
Jankers


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Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Bluenose on June 24, 2018, 07:26:49 AM
Gash - rubbish? spare?  yep
Snotty - midshipman?  yep
Scran - food? Especially scrounged or casual.  All food, a meal - Sh*t Cooked by the Royal Australian Navy
Kellick (or killick) - anchor? Bosun or Petty officer of similar rank?  A leading seaman, a "hookey", because of the anchor that is his badge of rank

The first and third were those in RAFese

Other RAFese:
Erk  pilot officer?
Yonks  A long time?
Clag    glue, or shitty weather?
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Tank on June 24, 2018, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: OldGit on June 23, 2018, 09:40:51 AM
Try understanding a conversation between two Glaswegians who don't want you to. :Gaah:
Or even if they want to. No difference.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Bluenose on June 24, 2018, 10:14:27 AM
Quote from: Tank on June 24, 2018, 08:40:47 AM
Quote from: OldGit on June 23, 2018, 09:40:51 AM
Try understanding a conversation between two Glaswegians who don't want you to. :Gaah:
Or even if they want to. No difference.

Ha!  I shared a cabin with a Glaswegian lad when I joined the Navy.  After a couple of weeks I became a sort of translator for the rest of our course mates.  If anyone had difficulty understanding him, the accent got thicker and thicker.  LOL.  He was a good bloke nevertheless and became an excellent pilot.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Recusant on June 24, 2018, 11:16:18 AM
Hmm, "yonks" may have been "RAFese," but it's been in general use in the UK since at least the 1960s. The OED admits: "Origin unknown," though the online Oxford Dictionaries (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/yonks) says, "perhaps related to donkey's years."
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 24, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
Quote from: Recusant on June 24, 2018, 11:16:18 AM
Hmm, "yonks" may have been "RAFese," but it's been in general use in the UK since at least the 1960s. The OED admits: "Origin unknown," though the online Oxford Dictionaries (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/yonks) says, "perhaps related to donkey's years."
I joined the RAF in 1961!

Seems like kiloyonks ago!
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Icarus on June 26, 2018, 04:23:11 AM
Talented lady and also kind of cute.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyyT2jmVPAk
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 30, 2018, 03:24:26 PM
I have to be careful not to incorporate so-called anglicanisms that are common throughout Brazil (it seems), which are not correct usage, such as shopping for shopping centre or mall.

'Shopping' has become a noun here.  ::)
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on June 30, 2018, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 30, 2018, 03:24:26 PM
I have to be careful not to incorporate so-called anglicanisms that are common throughout Brazil (it seems), which are not correct usage, such as shopping for shopping centre or mall.

'Shopping' has become a noun here.  ::)

So it's:
"Where are you going?"
"To the shopping."
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 30, 2018, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: Dave on June 30, 2018, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on June 30, 2018, 03:24:26 PM
I have to be careful not to incorporate so-called anglicanisms that are common throughout Brazil (it seems), which are not correct usage, such as shopping for shopping centre or mall.

'Shopping' has become a noun here.  ::)

So it's:
"Where are you going?"
"To the shopping."

Exactly.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Bluenose on July 01, 2018, 01:52:47 AM
There was a book published back in the 60s called Let's Talk Strine by Afferbeck Lauder.  (Say it out loud, you'll get the meaning.) It allegedly documented Australian language usage, at least in the broad Aussie accent.  The following is an extract to give you the idea

Aorta: The english language contains many Greek, Latin, French, Italian and other foreign words, e.g. valet, vampire, vaudeville, vox-humana,
hippocrepiform, etc.  Strine, similarly, is richly studded with words and phrases taken from other, older tongues.  Many of these have, with
the passage of time, come to possess meanings different from their original ones.  Two typical examples are the German words Eiche
(Pronounced i-ker; meaning oak-tree) and Ersatz (pronounced air-sats; meaning substitute).  Both these are now Strine words, and are used in
the following manner: `Eiche nardly bleevit', and `Ersatz are trumps, dear, yegottny?

However, it is English which has contributed most to the Strine vocabulary.  Strine is full of words which were originally English. Aorta is a typical example.

Aorta (pronounced A-orta) is the vessel through which courses the life-blood of Strine public opinion.  Aorta is a composite but non-existant Authority which is held responsible for practically everything unpleasant in the Strine way of life; for the punishment of criminals; for the weather; for the Bomb and the Pill; for all public transport; and for all the manifold irritating trivia of everyday living.  Aorta comprises the Federal and State legislatures; local government councils; all public services; and even, it is now thought, Parents' and Citizens' Associations and the CSIRO.

Aorta is, in fact, the personification of the benevolently paternal welfare State to which all Strines - being fiercly independant and individualistic - appeal for help and comfort in moments of frustration and anguish.  The following are typical examples of such appeals.  They reveal the innate reasonableness and sense of justice which all Strines possess to such a marked degree:

`Aorta build another arber bridge.  An aorta stop half of these cars from cummer ninner the city - so a feller can get twirkon time.'

`Aorta mica laura genst all these prairlers and sleshers an pervs. Aorta puttem in jile an shootem.'

`Aorta stop all these transistors from cummer ninner the country. Look what they doone to the weather.  All this rine! Doan tell me it's
not all these transistors - an all these hydrigen bombs too.  Aorta stoppem!'

`Aorta have more buses.  An aorta milkem smaller so they don't take up half the road.  An aorta put more seats innem so you doan tefter stann all the time.  An aorta have more room innem - you carn tardly move innem air so crairded.  Aorta do something about it.'
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Dave on July 01, 2018, 03:34:03 AM
Yes, Strine is a rich language where "Emma Chissit" is not a personal name but an enquirey as to the cost.
Title: Re: "DO - YOU - SPEAK - ENGLISH."
Post by: Icarus on July 01, 2018, 04:45:31 AM
Blue that is a hoot.  Aussies do talk funny.

Many years ago the world championship of sailing was to be held in Aussie land.  A sailing magazine that I subscribed to did an humorous, well presumably humorous to we yanks, article entitled: Let stalk Strine.  The article instructed us about how to understand what the hell the locals were talking about.  The article was done in good humor and did not demean the antipodeans in the slightest.  It only meant to tell us that Aussies are inclined to string one word into the next which is perfectly normal for themselves but may be a bit mysterious to we foreigners.