Tolerance of theism/deism

[Norfolk And Chance]

Does anybody find that as they get older that they have gotten more cynical and/or intolerant of others? I've always been an atheist since I stopped believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy - my mothers just said "no I don't think so" when I popped the god question. So in many ways I've been lucky that religion and belief has not played a part in my upbringing.

The thing is, growing up, I never really had a problem with religion or religious people - probably because where I live is hardly the bible belt so I was never given a negative impression. To me it was "if they want to believe, let them believe, if it gives them a crutch or a purpose or inner strength" This has changed over the years and I feel like I have become "radicalised" - if that is possible for an atheist.

Nowadays, I just find it so hard to be tolerant of religion. I find it so hard to respect believers, I think the whole thing is silly, I just can't tolerate it very well any more. I find myself having an insatiable appetite to view some of the more in your face atheists like Hitchens, Condell, but it's hardly like my non belief needs re-inforcing. I suppose I just find those guys entertaining - I can't stand that smug git Dawkins though.

I feel like going on a one man face slapping crusade, I just want to shout at theists about how silly their beliefs are until they stop believing. I actually feel like every believer is being taken for a ride, and that they have to be waken up!

My opinion has lowered so much over the years that I cannot even bring myself to capitalise words like "god", "bible", "christians/christianity", because I feel like the whole thing is contemptuous and has not even earned the right to be assigned capital letters. This may seem silly to many, but it is actually how I feel.

I'm not sure when I got on this path of caring about religion and it's effects, or when I started to disdain religious belief, but I think I can trace the start back to 9/11, and the horrific murders committed in Iraq by jihadist groups, yes they may have felt that they were oppressed by the West but their deeds were done in the name of allah. Then 10 years of having the internet hasn't helped me either, because it's brought me face to face with the reality of what some people believe, it's no longer something I find easy to box up and stick in a corner. And then of course aging, I'm sure my growth of intolerance has grown with each year.

There's no real point to this post, but is anybody similar to me, increasingly intolerant of the whole sky fairy business?

[OldGit]

Yes.  With every passing outrage.  Even a few years back I could smugly post 'Oh well, we don't really suffer from that stuff in the UK".  Lately, however, the insanity is creeping in here, too, especially in education.

[Tank]

@ N&C

I could have written your post myself.

I was reasonably ambivalent and tolerant with religious people (people who define/identify themselves by their religion as opposed to just follow one out of habit/culture), but having now met a few on-line I find my attitude towards religion, all religion, hardening. And the more I read the posts of people like bandit4god et al, the more convinced I am that religion is a bad influence on people and should be challenged always and at every opportunity.

I have the same opinion of Dawkins too.

[Tank]

Killed off the other copy of this thread, in case you were looking for it 

[Siz]

Ditto Dawkins...

Don't let them rile you, guys. That'll just end in them - reasonably - pegging you as a nut.
Educate the fence-sitters by all means, and maintain a balanced view for the young. But trying to deconvert the zealot is futile and gives them more strength and purspose.

I love to give the "OK, if that's what you want to believe..." and walk away. Moral high ground every time.

[Too Few Lions]

can't stand that smug git Dawkins though.

funnily enough, that's exactly how I feel. Glad to see that tank and scissorlegs feel that way too, I've always found him far too smug and smarmy, and appearing to have a huge ego too, that I always dislike. Plus I'm sure he's made far too much money out of his atheism in TV and book sales, and the after dinner speech circuit. It's been 'a nice little earner' as Arthur Daley used to say!

Yet I've found that a lot of Christians I've encountered online (thankfully I dopn't know any in my everyday life) seem to think that all atheists worship the man like JC himself. They always seem a bit shocked to find out that some atheists find Dawkins really quite irritating, and have always been atheists and weren't converted by him.

I never capitalize the word 'god' either, the Christian god is not the only god, and is no different from Zeus, Baal, Isis or any other (although obviously I do still capitalize Christian, just like I might Greek or Jew).

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with being intolerant of religion, but I've always been a pretty fervent (yet open-minded) atheist. The more religious texts I've read and the more I've read about religions, the more convinced I've become they're 100% man-made. At the end of the day, radical atheists don't fly planes into buildings, persecute and murder people of differing beliefs, behead people for sorcery or stone homosexuals to death, unlike radical theists.

But I think the problem is religion, and not the belief in sky-fairies per se. I've never met an intolerant, violent or dangerous deist or pantheist (admittedly I haven't met many!) Religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism were written by small-minded intolerant people in much less enlightened times, and it shows in the teachings of their books, and the countless atrocities these books have inspired throughout history

[Asmodean]

I kinda' like the smug professor, but he can sometimes have the opposite of the intended effect when it comes to promoting skepticism in godly matters.

That said, good post, Norfolk. I agree with the overall sentiment and can see the same tendencies in me.

[Siz]

can't stand that smug git Dawkins though.

funnily enough, that's exactly how I feel. Glad to see that tank and scissorlegs feel that way too, I've always found him far too smug and smarmy, and appearing to have a huge ego too, that I always dislike. Plus I'm sure he's made far too much money out of his atheism in TV and book sales, and the after dinner speech circuit. It's been 'a nice little earner' as Arthur Daley used to say!

Yet I've found that a lot of Christians I've encountered online (thankfully I dopn't know any in my everyday life) seem to think that all atheists worship the man like JC himself. They always seem a bit shocked to find out that some atheists find Dawkins really quite irritating, and have always been atheists and weren't converted by him.

I never capitalize the word 'god' either, the Christian god is not the only god, and is no different from Zeus, Baal, Isis or any other (although obviously I do still capitalize Christian, just like I might Greek or Jew).

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with being intolerant of religion, but I've always been a pretty fervent (yet open-minded) atheist. The more religious texts I've read and the more I've read about religions, the more convinced I've become they're 100% man-made. At the end of the day, radical atheists don't fly planes into buildings, persecute and murder people of differing beliefs, behead people for sorcery or stone homosexuals to death, unlike radical theists.

But I think the problem is religion, and not the belief in sky-fairies per se. I've never met an intolerant, violent or dangerous deist or pantheist (admittedly I haven't met many!) Religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism were written by small-minded intolerant people in much less enlightened times, and it shows in the teachings of their books, and the countless atrocities these books have inspired throughout history

Yes TFL, that reminds me of the quote "No one kills in the name of Atheism" (which is only partially true - see Communism)

I found Dawkins making unfounded conclusions in his work and this put me off for the same reasons I dislike Christian belief. And while I do respect his fervence and (purportedly) scientific approach this does come over as smarmy.

I don't suppose any committed Christians have been deconverted by Dawkins, Sagan, Hitchens or any other outspoken Atheist. I'm sure these authors are predominantly used as a resource for already Atheist readers (well, that's my story anyway).

The more I hear from Christians, the more I am convinced they are defective. I cannot, therefore, derive any satisfaction from arguing with them. I'm not prepared to engage a Christian on philosophical matters any more than I would any other looney. Just walk away...

[Too Few Lions]

Yes TFL, that reminds me of the quote "No one kills in the name of Atheism" (which is only partially true - see Communism)

that's true, but I don't equate Communism with atheism, just as I don't equate Christianity with theism per se. It was an atheistic ideology, but it had plenty of other elements to it, atheism wasn't the overriding part of the ideology. Plus it always bugs me when Christians throw the old 'Stalin and Mao were atheists' line at me. I just think strong monolithic ideology is dangerous, be it Communism or Christianity. For me Christianity is as bad as Communism, just as basic deistic theism is not inherently any more dangerous than atheism

The more I hear from Christians, the more I am convinced they are defective. I cannot, therefore, derive any satisfaction from arguing with them. I'm not prepared to engage a Christian on philosophical matters any more than I would any other looney. Just walk away...

too true!

[Tank]

{snip}
I don't suppose any committed Christians have been deconverted by Dawkins, Sagan, Hitchens or any other outspoken Atheist. I'm sure these authors are predominantly used as a resource for already Atheist readers (well, that's my story anyway).

I used to frequent the Richard Dawkins Forum for a few years where I had a post count over 20,000 and was a moderator for a while. There where people who joined and cited The God Delusion as either causing the first crack in their faith or being the last straw that killed off their beliefs. There is still an area on his site called 'Converts Corner' where the de-conversion emails are posted. Now we are not talking thousands last time I looked so the quantity of de-conversions directly attributed to TGD is small in the scheme of things but it has done the trick for some people.

[Norfolk And Chance]

I'm really pleased that I'm not the only one.

I've had a few people tell me that I am overly radical for no good reason, that I have a grudge against religion and christians and they ask "why are you like that? Why not live and let live?" and I started to think there might be something wrong with me.  ???

"You're just as bad as anybody preaching religion and trying to shove it down your throat" they say, "because you try and shove atheism down people's throats in the same way" - well yeah, but I'm happy to be "just as bad" as my opinion is based in reason and evidence and fact!

[Davin]

I'm tollerent of theists and deists beliefs in so long as they don't express them around me. I feel they have the right to express their beliefs, but equally I think I have the right to question and express my opinion on any thing anyone expresses publicly. It's difficult for me to let things go that don't make any sense. But I have been noticing that more and more religious beliefs are being expressed publicly nowadays.

[Tank]

I'm really pleased that I'm not the only one.

I've had a few people tell me that I am overly radical for no good reason, that I have a grudge against religion and christians and they ask "why are you like that? Why not live and let live?" and I started to think there might be something wrong with me.  ???

"You're just as bad as anybody preaching religion and trying to shove it down your throat" they say, "because you try and shove atheism down people's throats in the same way" - well yeah, but I'm happy to be "just as bad" as my opinion is based in reason and evidence and fact!

I think if one is only reactive that the 'shoving your opinion' argument is a load of bollocks.

[xSilverPhinx]

Am I, along with Asmo, the only one who likes Dawkins here? 

Anyways, to sum up my response to the OP, I just find theists and their take on things so frustrating, and the more I know them the more frustrating they become. I just don't like small and ego centered philosophies. The place is just too big for any theistic worldview. 

Yes TFL, that reminds me of the quote "No one kills in the name of Atheism" (which is only partially true - see Communism)

This has become one of my pet peeves. I think there's an entire historical context you're ignoring there.

[Siz]

Am I, along with Asmo, the only one who likes Dawkins here? 

Anyways, to sum up my response to the OP, I just find theists and their take on things so frustrating, and the more I know them the more frustrating they become. I just don't like small and ego centered philosophies. The place is just too big for any theistic worldview. 

Yes TFL, that reminds me of the quote "No one kills in the name of Atheism" (which is only partially true - see Communism)

This has become one of my pet peeves. I think there's an entire historical context you're ignoring there.

Do you mean the historical context of Atheitst Communism? Yes, I'm sorry, it was a flippant comment.