Can the US Army embrace atheists?

[Tom62]

As much as I disagree with a lot of Israel's actions, implying that they somehow deserve to be attacked by Hezbollah is pretty low. Not to mention that another war with Hezbollah would be disastrous for everyone, no matter your viewpoint

Israel doesn't deserve to be attacked, just like Iran doesn't deserve to be attacked. In the conflict between Israel and the Arabic world, both parties can be blamed for being hot-headed and not willing to negotiate peace. At this moment we've got a "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" situation running there for many, many decades, with religion being the show stopper for any positive progress. It is a spiral of violence. You treat my people bad and you bomb me, so I fire some missiles to you, which makes you bomb me again, so that gives me another reason to fire some more missiles to you; so that you can send some drones to kill me or invade my country, etc. etc. Bombing installations in Iran would definitively not make things better.  Sadly enough, It would give Hezbollah another justification to hit back. No surprises there and nothing to be angry about, because these are the "Rules" of the "Game" (sarcasm). If the whole situation wasn't so sad then you could regard it as being utterly pathetic and disgusting. It is a loose-loose scenario. And basically I'm fed up with Israel playing the victim card all the time. In this conflict the only victims are the people that really want to live in peace (Arabs and Jews).

[Crow]

Xiilent you may want to check out this tv series Ross Kemp return to Afghanistan, I think its three episodes long and should be able to find all the links from there, also watch Frontline Medicine. They both show an unglorified look at the war in Afghanistan hopefully giving you a better perspective rather than one tinted with propaganda. The Ross Kemp show is a look at the war from British, American, and Afganistan National army perspective with interviews being conducted with citizens of Afghanistan and the taliban leaders. The Frontline Medicine is about what goes on in the medical rooms and provides a real sense of what the NATO casualty rate is.

[Ali]

Xiilent - I wouldn't know of course, but I doubt that war and killing are as....glamorous (for lack of a better word) than movies make them seem.  I find that most things in life are less glamorous and...I dunno....MTV (if you're not too young to even get that reference - I'm from an era where MTV actually played music videos) than they would seem.  I would like a hip soundtrack to play whenever I'm dressed up and walking slowly, but it hardly ever does.

I think I do know a little bit about what you're feeling.  I grew up in an area of the country where young men very much idolize the Marines, the Rangers, the Seals.  As a result, I know several 30-ish men who have been, and have done, and while they may be proud of their service, I don't think they have any more illusions about what humans are capable of, or about glory.  Do what you like with your life, but I urge you not to fall into the trap of thinking it's going to be just like the movie Jarhead. 

[Whitney]

Saving private ryan was probably a more realistic idea of what combat would be like than Jarhead; and even then I doubt it catches the full horror of it all.  I've heard some of the newer video games like Call of Duty mimic it rather well...except that in real life you don't get do overs. One of the guys I work with is ex military and while he doesn't have much of a filter he won't even talk about some of the stuff he had to go through.   In high school I was dating a guy who was related to an Army Ranger...he was proud when he got a hold of pictures of decapitated middle easterners (not something you want to see, trust me) and talked about "kills" as if it was easier than swatting at flies.  I don't think it's possible to go through the military and come out not having a slightly twisted view of death....too much desensitizing goes on in training.

[Sweetdeath]

That's what really scares me, Whitney. What makes it okay to.murder in cold blood and be proud? Nothing does.

so many new games like Call of duty are getting people addicted to violence, like it's a normal, natural thing to kill.

I found especially disturbing after Bin laden was killed, a lot of Americans wanted the pics online to celebrate it. There was even a daytime show where a guy  said he wanted the blown off head/corpse as a screen saver  . What the heck?!
People even boo'd Obama for making the photos confidential  and not accessible via public.

[fester30]

That's what really scares me, Whitney. What makes it okay to.murder in cold blood and be proud? Nothing does.

so many new games like Call of duty are getting people addicted to violence, like it's a normal, natural thing to kill.

I found especially disturbing after Bin laden was killed, a lot of Americans wanted the pics online to celebrate it. There was even a daytime show where a guy  said he wanted the blown off head/corpse as a screen saver  . What the heck?!
People even boo'd Obama for making the photos confidential  and not accessible via public.

Sweetdeath, I am disappointed.  I would have been sure that by now you'd realize that there is a certain segment of American society that views class as a bad thing.  Obama showed some class and sensitivity with that issue, and those people hated it.  It's usually the same people who are avid NASCAR fans, wear camouflage when they aren't trying to hide from anything, and think that spitting tobacco for distance is a spectator sport.  You shouldn't be surprised by now. 

[Sweetdeath]

Even though i've lived here for 25yrs, I definitely think very differently from the typical american. Hehe

[Reprobate]

I have never understood why atheists or humanists would want to join the military. Unless a foreign army is invading, I don't see the morality in joining. I don't see the humanity in traveling to other nations to destroy their homes, businesses, lives, and often times killing them... Preferably from a bunker within the U.S. while piloting an unmanned drone. We (U.S.) rape and murder innocents simply because the politicians need a war to get re-elected.

At least christians can say they are fighting a holy war... Granted, I have a hard time relating to this topic. But why not argue for the end of a standing army, rather than arguing all state sanctioned murders should be treated equally? The U.S. hasn't fought a just war since (arguably) WWII.

I enlisted in the army in 1988. I think that in the years since, the mission of the US Army has changed from what it was declared to be; 'To deter armed aggression against the United States and its allies, that failing to fight and win on any battlefield any time.' 

That's paraphrasing of course, but it's the general idea. I understand that to me that going to war is admitting failure in its primary mission. During my service time the cold war came to an end making that perhaps our biggest success. I also think that the liberation of Kuwait was a noble cause, even if it wasn't undertaken for the most honorable reasons.

Unfortunately you are right about the elections, politicians have discovered that war is a great tool for distracting the sheep from the real domestic issues that they aren't fixing.

[Buddy]

I feel like I could never go to war. For any country. I could just never live with myself if I took the life of another human being. I can still remember the stories that my late grandfather told me of WWII and the honestly terrified me. However I'm not naive, war will always be a part of society. I just don't see myself as ever being apart of it. 

[Ihateyoumike]

I feel like I could never go to war. For any country. I could just never live with myself if I took the life of another human being. I can still remember the stories that my late grandfather told me of WWII and the honestly terrified me. However I'm not naive, war will always be a part of society. I just don't see myself as ever being apart of it. 

I wouldn't go to war because I don't love my country. I can't fight for something I don't love. It'd be like being a salesman and trying to sell something that doesn't work.

[Sweetdeath]

I feel like I could never go to war. For any country. I could just never live with myself if I took the life of another human being. I can still remember the stories that my late grandfather told me of WWII and the honestly terrified me. However I'm not naive, war will always be a part of society. I just don't see myself as ever being apart of it. 

I wouldn't go to war because I don't love my country. I can't fight for something I don't love. It'd be like being a salesman and trying to sell something that doesn't work.

You always say great  things, Mike. <3   <3

[xXxWashburnxXx]

That's what really scares me, Whitney. What makes it okay to.murder in cold blood and be proud? Nothing does.

so many new games like Call of duty are getting people addicted to violence, like it's a normal, natural thing to kill.

I found especially disturbing after Bin laden was killed, a lot of Americans wanted the pics online to celebrate it. There was even a daytime show where a guy  said he wanted the blown off head/corpse as a screen saver  . What the heck?!
People even boo'd Obama for making the photos confidential  and not accessible via public.

Call of duty and first person shooters in general don't get people who are mentally stable addicted to violence. My friends and I regularly play Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto 4 and none of us have gone on a killing spree. If you think what's okay in a fictional reality is okay in actual reality you shouldn't be watching television, much less virtually killing people.

[Crow]

Call of duty and first person shooters in general don't get people who are mentally stable addicted to violence. My friends and I regularly play Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto 4 and none of us have gone on a killing spree. If you think what's okay in a fictional reality is okay in actual reality you shouldn't be watching television, much less virtually killing people.

And certainly not reading books. Books by large go way further than any film, tv program, or game have ever been able to do whilst being far more visceral. I recently downloaded gta3 on my iphone and its crazy how that game managed to stir up such a kerfuffle on its release, it quite clearly feels like you are playing a game that if anything is an homage to films that go way beyond anything presented in that game. Saying that though Black Ops and Modern Warfare 2 single player campaigns crossed the line for me at certain points, but in my opinion they largely play like over the top Micheal Bay type film that are so far removed from reality that its just ridiculous for anyone to get confused between reality or the virtual world.

[The Magic Pudding]

Only if it is consensual.



Oh sorry, this thread has been around for a long time and I've resisted up to now.
Just a moment of weakness I suppose.
It could be a subtle anti conscription reference, I'm not averse to my babblings being given loftier interpretations than I had in mind.

[Sweetdeath]

People who tend to live sheltered, isolated, and anti-social lives have unstable minds.
If you grow up in an unloving place, playing COD and Gears of war, halo, etc, who says you can handle real confrontation irl?


Men who degrade women tend to be men whom have had no real interaction with women. They recall fantasies such as porn and men's magazines that dont portray females as anything but sometging to be used.
I dont mean all men of course, and every case is different. I read watch smut as well, but I also interact with people on a daily basis.