The Secret - w'sup w/dat?

[joeactor]

Hey all,

Been over-busy of late, so I'm behind on the posts.

Wanted some opinions on "The Secret" - it's a book and DVD that's being touted by Oprah.  web site is at: http://thesecret.tv if you are interested.

Sounds alot like the power of positive thinking to me...

Thoughts?,
  JoeActor

[Whitney]

Hey, welcome back.

From the trailer It looks like it may involve alchemy (the guy turning a statue into gold) and may have been inspired by the Da Vinci Code (the whole idea of this ancient secret people have kept over the years).  Is Oprah claiming it is real?

[joeactor]

Oprah says she's been doing it for years without knowing...

Seems like the "ASK, BELIEVE, COLLECT REWARD" line of thinking.

Oh, and btw, food doesn't make you fat.  Thinking fat thoughts makes you fat.  And while you're at it, don't look at fat people either.

Review here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17314883/site/newsweek/
Book Excerpt here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17317691/site/newsweek/

The more you know?,
  JoeActor

[McQ]

Hey, Joeactor. Good to see you again. My very blunt and quick opinion of The Secret is:
1) It's CRAP

2) that it's author deserves every penny for getting suckers like Oprah to go for it the way they do.

My boss gave me a copy of it. I about barfed reading it.

[Squid]

Ah, I see, it's bullshit.  That's the secret?  From the crap that I saw in that article it's nothing more than a play on the psychological concept of self-fulfilling prophecies - people think they'll do something and they will attune their behaviors accordingly (somewhat) it usually doesn't last over a long period of time and seems to work better with "negative" things for some reason.  I suppose deep down, we're all a little masochistic.  Anyhow, people will try it and through attributional error, it may drag them on for a bit but eventually it will fail and they will not succeed in getting "anything they want".

Take an old and well known psychological aspect of human behavior, get some jackasses to talk about it and give 'em a false title, wrap it all up in nice neat packaging with some snazzy artwork and BAM! - desperate people make it an instant best seller.

Probably 30 million people will buy the book - maybe like 50 will have something great happen to them, hell even a hundred people would still be below the allowance for random chance - out of those 30 million 3000 of them will probably get struck by lightening or be in an auto accident before they see any results from *gasp* the secret!

Okay, I'm sorry for the rant.  It just pisses me off how jackass self-help pricks utilize basic psychology to get people do buy their stupid shit.  If I was less scrupulous I'd have done that long ago - and probably would have been better at it than this chick.

You really want to lose weight?  Try working out regularly and eating right?  That doesn't work? Try behavior modification (sounds evil doesn't it?).  That doesn't work? Then you're probably fighting genetics and/or a endocrine problem - time for a medical intervention.

Self-help...bahhh humbug[/rant]

[Whitney]

Oh, and btw, food doesn't make you fat.  Thinking fat thoughts makes you fat.  And while you're at it, don't look at fat people either.

Great, we all now know the secret...consuming foods with tons of fat, carbs, sugars, and calories will have no affect on your body as long as you concentrate your forcus on enjoying that food to perfection while eating it.  We can now throw years of research into nutrition out the window.


Btw, if a lot of people buy into this nonsense, does that mean they will no longer be able to watch Oprah when she gains weight again?

[donkeyhoty]

I have the REAL Secret....... send me $15.95 and I'll let you know what it is.



Also joe, are a lot of the hollywoodians(hollywoodites?) buying into this shite?

[joeactor]

I have the REAL Secret....... send me $15.95 and I'll let you know what it is.

Also joe, are a lot of the hollywoodians(hollywoodites?) buying into this shite?

I got my checkbook out now!
Tell me!  Tell me!  I Have To KNOW!

I'm sure it's as popular here as anywhere else... and isn't that a depressing thought!

Off to be someone else for a bit,
  JoeActor

[Eclecticsaturn]

Well, i guess i gotta be the black sheep here. Please dont be to viscious. But, i actually own the dvd and audio book and have gone through both many times. If you actually watch it they make some sence in what they say. Ill amit some of it does seem for fetched but if even half of what it says is true then great. It really approaches the topic in as much of a scientifical nature as possiple. just watch the video here:

The secret on myspace

Now i use much of it to help me stay possitive and im not saying that i live and die by this, but i do feel that there is some truth to this. In no way shape or form do i feel that a "god" is attached to this so dont misundered MY interpritation of this. Just watch it and make up your own mind. Who cares if oprah likes it or not, it matters if you think it has SOME credibility.

[Squid]

I'm sorry but "the law of attraction" is crap.  Social interactions with other people are governed by behavioral cues and language not "thinking about it and it'll happen" - this plays upon attributional bias.  As I said before, it's a play on basic psychology to feed people crap so they'll buy stuff from these people. Repackaged new age.

I can guarantee that any neuroscientist, anthropologist, sociologist and so forth will say the same thing.

For instance, I hated my job I had.  It sucked and hated every minute of it.  I thought all the time about wanting a better job.  I thought how much I deserve and need a better job.  Did it fall into my lap?  Hell no.  I busted my ass looking for a new job, applying and interviewing and through my own determination I finally found a better job.  It didn't find me, I had to get off my ass and find it.


*EDIT* I'm sorry, that sounded rather harsh.  I just hate when people twist science to make their product sound genuine.

Also, these experts on the video - most are these motivational, self help people with degrees in divinity, metaphysical studies and the "psychologist" Waitely:

Furthermore, Checkmate Investigative Services could find no record of La Jolla University in its databases of current accredited institutions of higher learning. Nor does the school appear in the databases of the State of California Bureau for Private Post- Secondary & Vocational Education, Checkmate found.
    "Despite extensive database searches, no working telephone number was found for this school," it said. "Accordingly, it was not possible to verify that the search subject graduated with the stated degree from this institution."

Source - http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5566831

Unless this refers to the UCSD near Lo Jolla but that is where I found this link.  I can't confirm if his degree is from UCSD.

Bottom line is it all seems very suspect.

I can sum up the secret in one phrase - "Don't let bad shit get you down".

[Eclecticsaturn]

For instance, I hated my job I had.  It sucked and hated every minute of it.  I thought all the time about wanting a better job.  I thought how much I deserve and need a better job.  Did it fall into my lap?  Hell no.  I busted my ass looking for a new job, applying and interviewing and through my own determination I finally found a better job.  It didn't find me, I had to get off my ass and find it.

I hear you Squid. That part there if after understanding the secret it would basicly say that your focus the whole time was on the job. regardless wither or not the feelings were good or bad toward your crappy job, they were still focused on your job. Hence, you ended up staying. The secret does say that if you think it, or want it, itll pop up in your lap, you still have to go look for it, but with a new focus of not i dont like my job i want another one, but with a bigger better job and the type of stuff youll like about it.  So, that being said and the understanding of the secret its obvious, to me, why it took long to get the next job. take for instance (in a shortened example) you werent looking for something, lets say a certain book, but then when you need it and you start to look for it, your thoughts arent (usaually) i cant find that book were is it, its usaully were is the book. Then sometimes its right in front you like on the desk or something. It not that it just popped up  out of no were its that your focus was on it and you were drawn to it and you found it.  The video backs up a lot of what they with examples. The secret is also a tool for possitive thinking as well. so a lot has to do with your predominate thoughts are.

[Squid]

Okay.  This program says that these "laws" of the universe bend to your thoughts and therefore changes reality - this is not substantiated in the least at all scientifically or even logically.  What is changed - the only thing that is changed is our perception.  This has no bearing on the world at large.  Our behaviors determine what our interaction with our world will be.  Focusing on finding something is a thought process from which often follows a goal oriented behavior.  The behavior will determine success or failure (eschewing other variables outside of our control).  With a particular perceptual attenuation our attributions of events will reflect that mindset - it plays on our subjectivity and (sometimes problematic) ability to make causal chains.

I did find a better job because I worked for it.  I often thought to myself "man I'll be stuck at this shitty job" but my behavior didn't reflect my thoughts in that I kept trying anyway.  Within the framework of the "secret" this is paradoxical and I'm sure it can be rationalized away.  Why?  Because the vagueness of the whole scheme relies upon the ability to make arbitrary causal connections and rationalize events within a specified perceptual framework - we are good at that.

When I mention attributional bias an example would be if I didn't study the night before a test and did poorly, an attribution could be that the test was hard not the fact that I didn't study.  I could have it in my head that I was going to ace that test but a lackluster performance would reflect not on my mindset but on what my behavior determined - I didn't study.  Plain and simple.

Saying if you think positive, work hard and you'll succeed isn't a secret.  It's common sense.  It has nothing to do with the universe bending to your thoughts - it just means you worked hard for something you wanted.  Occam's razor my friend, Occam's razor.

[Squid]

Some evaluations of the "Secret":

Massimo Pigliucci, possibly one of the most intelligent men in science today takes a look at it on his blog:

http://rationallyspeaking.blogspot.com/2007/03/immorality-of-secret.html

An article from CSICOP with this great statement - "The roots of pseudoscience grow strong near the septic tank of misinformation...":

http://www.csicop.org/specialarticles/secrets.html

An e-Skeptic article:

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-03-07.html

L.A. Times article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-klein13feb13,0,3953992.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

Also, the claim is that this is scientific and therefore it is testable and potentially falsifiable.  Dramatized examples are not scientific evidence.  As Carl Sagan famously said, "...extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

[joeactor]

Thanks much for the article links Squid - I read the first already and am moving on to the second...

[Eclecticsaturn]

Squid, you make good points and again, some parts in there are a little far fetched and I dont live and die by it. I take the good stuff and throw out the rest. The bottom line is im not trying to tell anyone to believe it. Its really how you want to take. I still think it a good movie and if used properlly it can be a good thing. Oddly enough, like the bible. .