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Why is Belief in the Supernatural Still a Thing?

Started by MadBomr101, March 20, 2018, 03:34:43 PM

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MadBomr101

We're eighteen years into the 21st Century yet the ignorance and superstition of the Bronze Age is still prevalent today primarily in the form of religious belief.  Why is belief in the supernatural still a thing?  Why do so many people believe in things that obviously aren't real? 

God
Satan
Angels
Demons
Souls
Heaven
Hell

Let's also throw in a few earthbound examples...

Nessie
Bigfoot
Ghosts
Zombies
Witches
Vampires

There are many millions of people who believe in some or even all of this stuff despite the fact that none of it is real.  How do I know it's not real -- because there's no evidence to support any of it.  None at all. That's an important consideration.  Mythology is one thing, reality is another. Real things just aren't that difficult to prove.

Let me put it this way; if there was no evidence that dinosaurs ever existed, I wouldn't believe that they were real either but we have hundreds of years of research and a mountain of fossil evidence that proves they were real.  Real things tend to leave behind evidence of their existence even if their existence was millions of years ago.

People who believe  in this stuff need to consider the fact that they've never seen evidence for ANY of it and liberate themselves from bullsh*t.
- Bomr
I'm waiting for the movie of my life to be made.  It should cost about $7.23 and that includes the budget for special effects.

Old Seer

#1
Once authority has established something it can't let it go. It's normally something that keeps them in charge. As I see it, religion started from an ignorance of the material existence and what nature constructs. Back in the day (before science) people couldn't understand the forces of physics and attributed those forces has happenings of powers they misunderstood.

Governmental and religious authorities hang on to what gives them the leadership and a living. The will to rule over and be of higher status propels them to maintain what has been established over time. The fact that from birth we are all assembled mentally in what has been inherited from previous generations creates a repetitious following of what it takes to rule.. Multi layered societies have problems generated by competition to be bigger and better then their peers and others. To give up religion, religious authorities would have to give up status, one of the driving forces that individuals wants to utilize.
In order to remove religion they have to be proven wrong in their own rite. But, the removal of religion also means removal of central government. Both government and religion exist for the same reason- to rule the masses. Neither can rule any differently then the other, as rulership must always work under the same criteria. Religion cannot rule outside the same rudiments of governance then central government. So, whats wrong with one is also wrong with the other. They each have to rule by the same factors it takes to rule.

There,s not much difference between religious governance and Secular governance. Religion rules by assumed permission of a God. Secular government rules by authority of individuals. Notice that neither does any better then the other, because  a religious government still has people making the determinations. It's obvious that no super human is running anything, or in most cases "God" has to be dummer then the average individual.

Religion came about by the misunderstanding of natural forces. Religion will be around as long as they're not proven wrong, and/or it pays the operators, the same as any company or corporation.

Addition- Until it is proven or reasonably shown that a Superhuman being does not exist religion will remain.
The only thing possible the world needs saving from are the ones running it.
Oh lord, save us from those wanting to save us.
I'm not a Theist.

Dave

They were probably aaking a similar question in the mid 1700s, well into the Enlightenment!

There will probably always be those who live in the true Dark Ages, those who cannot accept that the unfeeling Universe has no respect for the minute morsel of organic matter that they are, or the speck of dust that is our home planet.

A smallish terrestrial storm, tsunami or earthquake can wipe them out in a second, why should an asteroid or a potential Xray burster take notice? Can their god(s) save them? No chance if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But, being emotional brings in an emotionless Universe is not comfortsble for some, they need their comfort blanket or dummy.

[:rant1:]  We are but temporary manifestations of the overall Universal Energy! The bill has to be paid some day! Sod-all we can do about it . . .  [/ :rant1:]
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Icarus

Michael Shermers new Book: Heavens on Earth, does a good job of investigating this sort of thing.

Here is a little kernal from the book.

"In his panoramic and illustrated history of imagined places titled; The Book Of Legendary Lands, the late Italian philosopher and novelist, Umberto Eco, reflected on what lay behind human desire....to live someplace else and some time else:  It seems that every culture---because the world of every day reality is cruel and hard to live in--dreams of a happy land to which men once belonged, and may someday return." 

So it is with the quest for heaven and the religions that promises to deliver one to that utopian place.

Gnostic Christian Bishop

I think that supernatural based religions are still what they are, and apparently growing, even though I have seen reports showing them shrinking, because the free thinkers like atheists, skeptics agnostics etc., have not been pro active enough in engaging them is debates.

The religious apologists today are the poorest that I have seen in many years, and I do not see the non-believer debaters getter that much better either.

I hope the free thinking crowd gets better. We seem to know more about religions than the religionists yet cannot seem to capitalize on our knowledge in arguments.

Perhaps the tribalism of the various atheist, humanist etc. is keeping our organizations too small to be as effective as we might be.

Regards
DL 

Tank

Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on March 21, 2018, 12:54:48 AM
I think that supernatural based religions are still what they are, and apparently growing, even though I have seen reports showing them shrinking, because the free thinkers like atheists, skeptics agnostics etc., have not been pro active enough in engaging them is debates.

The religious apologists today are the poorest that I have seen in many years, and I do not see the non-believer debaters getter that much better either.

I hope the free thinking crowd gets better. We seem to know more about religions than the religionists yet cannot seem to capitalize on our knowledge in arguments.

Perhaps the tribalism of the various atheist, humanist etc. is keeping our organizations too small to be as effective as we might be.

Regards
DL

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160422-atheism-agnostic-secular-nones-rising-religion/
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dragonia

This is a huge question...... The reasons for religion continuing to have a firm grasp on people are many and varied.
You really could write a book on why they persist (and I'm sure those books have been written).
Here are a few of my thoughts:

*Fear---- if a person is raised with enough fear of Hell, they may not want to explore the possibility of no god. This is rampant in any religious circle because it's so effective and long-lasting.

*Culture---- once your culture says something is true, and life revolves around the principles of that religion, and it's been in effect for hundreds or thousands of years, it's hard to go against the flow. There's also a thought process that I've found, especially in Catholic people, that they assume the Fathers knew so much more and so much better than we do, about Truth, that they just accept it and go with the flow. Because it's easier and it makes things make sense.

*Community---- we crave some sort of community (most of us), and being raised in a religious group of some sort not only makes us belong to something bigger, it usually provides an immediate circle of acquaintances to draw from for support/ friendship/ inspiration.

*Explanation---- we want so badly for things to make sense, for the world to be in order,  for justice to be served (eventually). Religion solves all of it. Where we came from, where we're going, what our purpose is, how we should behave. It gives us answers, and even though they don't always make perfect sense, it feels good to be able to trust someone who's got everything under control.

For so many people, these are such powerful reasons, even if they don't realize it. But thanks to a cultural shift that is happening, probably due largely to the internet, maybe we can form a new foundation for future generations!
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)

MadBomr101

I agree with a lot of what's being speculated upon here. Religious People are weak and fearful, religious leaders have a vested interest in keeping these people ignorant so they can sell them their religious snake oil. I just can't believe how so many people are so willing to accept the crapola they're being fed.

I know where these people are coming from, I was one of them. I was raised a roman catholic. I grew up eating the cookie and confessing my sins once a week, doing the stations of the cross, I was baptized and confirmed and taught the bible was the inerrant word of god and I bought it all. For years as a child and a teenager, I believed! Hallelujah and Praise Him, I believed!

Then around the age of 18, I started to look at what I had been taught and it began to sound kind of...off. Further consideration led to more critical examination of the religion I'd been raised with which led to agnosticism which eventually led to atheism by the time was 21. It was obvious all this shit was made up and I set it aside easily, secure in the knowledge that there was no truth to any it. What amazes me is how so many people can look at all the same evidence and fail to identify it for the lie it clearly is.

People are asked to believe in magical superbeings in the sky, eternal life after you die, and paranormal horseshit of every kind and they say "Yes, I'll believe it. Just please make me feel special and save me from the finality of death!" This can be excused when one is a child or mired in the ignorance of antiquity but we're all adults and  have science and reason now. There's just no excuse for it to be so ubiquitous anymore.

This is the reason I love animals so much more than people -- People are so damn stupid.
- Bomr
I'm waiting for the movie of my life to be made.  It should cost about $7.23 and that includes the budget for special effects.

Gnostic Christian Bishop

Quote from: Tank on March 21, 2018, 06:30:11 AM
Quote from: Gnostic Christian Bishop on March 21, 2018, 12:54:48 AM
I think that supernatural based religions are still what they are, and apparently growing, even though I have seen reports showing them shrinking, because the free thinkers like atheists, skeptics agnostics etc., have not been pro active enough in engaging them is debates.

The religious apologists today are the poorest that I have seen in many years, and I do not see the non-believer debaters getter that much better either.

I hope the free thinking crowd gets better. We seem to know more about religions than the religionists yet cannot seem to capitalize on our knowledge in arguments.

Perhaps the tribalism of the various atheist, humanist etc. is keeping our organizations too small to be as effective as we might be.

Regards
DL

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160422-atheism-agnostic-secular-nones-rising-religion/

Interesting reading. Thanks.

Regards
DL

No one

Humans need to feel like they belong, like they matter. Being an inconsequential cling on on the asshole of existence, isn't a viable alternative.

Dragonia

Quote from: MadBomr101 on March 21, 2018, 03:02:28 PM
I agree with a lot of what's being speculated upon here. Religious People are weak and fearful, religious leaders have a vested interest in keeping these people ignorant so they can sell them their religious snake oil. I just can't believe how so many people are so willing to accept the crapola they're being fed.

.....

This is the reason I love animals so much more than people -- People are so damn stupid.

I think that a blanket statement like "Religious People are weak and fearful" does ZERO good in trying to explain religious belief. It's very offensive to current believers, thus shutting down any meaningful interaction. It's also fairly offensive to past believers, even though I realize you're lumping yourself in with them (Although I'm not sure I would lump you in with True Believers, as you abandoned your faith when you became an adult and didn't seem to enter the stage of Contiencious Acceptance, based on what you said).

There are MANY strong-minded, bold, courageous people that accept Christianity and live by it. Yes, there are weak, fearful, stupid ones also. But people run the gamut of personality in Christianity, exactly like they do as Atheists, or most other beliefs. You find all sorts, in all beliefs.

There's something deeper and more intricate that happens in a person's mind when they believe in something. Something far less understandable and more complicated than just being weak and fearful.

I really hate it when people just brush off deeply held beliefs by an insulting, demeaning blanket statement. I guess it just makes life easier for you to make sense of.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)

MadBomr101

#11
Quote from: Dragonia on March 22, 2018, 01:28:11 PMI guess it just makes life easier for you to make sense of.

There's probably some measure of laziness to my attitude. I can't go around trying to understand what's going on in the head of each individual believer Believer A may be a lovely human being while Believer B may be an irredeemable asshole. I'm not interested in what their individual qualities as people may be, I'm trying to deal with them collectively as grown adults who believe in fairytales. I don't care who they are as individuals. That's beside the point.

My impatience whith people of faith is drawn from a lifetime of experiences with them. I'll allow that maybe I could be more tolerant of them but the aggravation is justified given the foolishness and hypocrisy they exhibit in so many aspects of their behavior. They also insist on forcing their faith on all the rest of us. There's over 300,000 Xian churches in America. I can't go to the store for popsicles without passing one. They seek leadership roles in government at all levels so they can legislate and pass laws based on their faith, they want to teach what they believe in our schools as facts, they routinely flout the separation of church and state as a matter of procedure, they mire us in the superstition and ignorance of ages long past and many of them insist on denying science in favor of nonsense.

I'm very much part of a minority population in this country so before you get too red in the face over the harshness of my statements consider that I have to put up with their objectionable antics day in and day out with little or no recourse.   
- Bomr
I'm waiting for the movie of my life to be made.  It should cost about $7.23 and that includes the budget for special effects.

Dragonia

^^^ I understand, I do. Putting up with the loud, obnoxious, condescending, self-righteous, power hungry Christians is maddening.
You said 
QuoteI'm trying to deal with them collectively as grown adults who believe in fairytales
and
Quoteconsider that I have to put up with their objectionable antics day in and day out with little or no recourse.

I agree again, that no, for the most part, there is little to no recourse. So we focus on what we can do, how we can vote, who we can have a conversation with, things that we DO believe in, and we take power from those things, working in our small part to change the world.
Instead of letting the assholes get under our skin.

But I know: it's way easier said than done.

And it's hard to understand why "they" just can't see reality.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)