Author Topic: Living with the results of abuse.  (Read 1371 times)

Papasito Bruno

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2017, 11:43:02 PM »
Hello Dave,

I read the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" when I was around 10 or 11. One of my older sisters had read the book for school, and one day I was at home looking in the family bookshelf for something to read and she said, "Here, read this", and she tossed the book at me...it's a great book", she said, "and anyway your going to have to read in couple years for school so you might as well get it out of the way".

I remember being just totally enamored with the story. I think it was one of those "Ah-Ha" moments of my youth when I realized that there was more to life than the childish toys and games I enjoyed.

Anyway I've read it numerous times in my life, in fact my sister was correct I did end up needing to read it again in a couple years for a literary class, teacher made me read it again, not sure she actually believed that I had read it on my own, anyway I gladly read it again.

So many parts of the book stand out to me, but I remember this part quite well. Atticus is describing the courage of Mrs. Dubois to Scout and he say's real courage is "When you know you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what."

I hope you don't mind me finding relevance to what you so honestly wrote and that quote from the book, but what you wrote took courage, more courage than many folks might realize, like the type Atticus referred to, "Real Courage"... so I just want to thank you for sharing something so deep and personal, for allowing yourself to open up about the type of wound that never heals.

I hope you know that you have not only my deepest respect, but also my admiration and appreciation. Appreciation especially for what motivates you for your volunteer work.

I also think it speaks volumes about our little commonality here at HAF, that something so traumatic and personal such as this could be shared on an open forum.


(((HUGS)))
I'm truly sorry, but I can't keep explaining this simple thing to you over and over again hoping that you'll finally understand something so simple and obvious.
I'm not the "Dumb-Ass Whisperer".

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Dragonia

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 04:51:14 AM »

----------------------------------------------------

There is a well known saying, "Forgive and forget". Another goes, "Time cures all". Neither are relevant to victims of child abuse. You can never forget, the results live with you, conciously or unconciously, every day of your life, waking or sleeping.

.....

Wow Dave, drinking or not, your post took courage and was no doubt difficult to write, as I know the pain can stay sharp over the years.
Thank you for the insight and the compassion that it may inspire when we are faced with possibly odd or reactive behavior.
There are a thousand things I  want to say, but they all sound trite, so I'll just say I'm glad I'm here with you and I think you're great.  :hug2:
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Dave

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 08:31:36 AM »
Thanks people, your acceptance is appreciated.

After almost 70 years the reactions and emotions are still strong but, somehow, "normal" - like a pain that is never going to go away it becomes part of your being. One grows to be a little objective about it - there are sayings like, "You must abide thst which you cannot cure."

I am thankful that something in my make-up, despite the years of depression, has never caused me to become dependant on any substance, though I smoked up to the night of my heart attack one cannot "lose oneself" in nicotine! Deep inside there is a strong coping and survival principle that has retained an outward view.

In answer to AoD's question: memory suggests it was a local Catholic priest, there are heavy hints in my account. This is reinforced by a memory of my asking where Father X was and my mother replying, angrily, "He's been sent away because he likes little boys too much." 

I do not think this experience was the sole seed of my atheism and aspiring humanism, though it probably reinforced my inquiring and analytical traits . The humanism came a bit later, a sort of recognition.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 09:53:44 AM by Dave »
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Dave

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 10:36:38 AM »
Exploring this further: I find myswlf with an understading of the "repressed personality", where that is caused by a deepset but denied need to express the softer emotions. The denial may be due to a kind of fear of the vulnerability that was oart of the original experience. It may be due to a seething anger over the mistreatment, an anger that may be triggered by any event that causes a "flashback", especially in the unconcious. "I don't know what came over me..."

My father never once showed me any affection, ckme yo thinknofbit nrither did my mother - though she showed little anger either. They did, hiwever, obviously track my interests and give me very appropriate - and sonetimes expensive - presents. Displaced affection. How iften, dince, have I wanted to say, "Give your child a hug instested of, or as well as, that pile of material stuff." How often have I heard thise same parents ssy, "But we gave him/her everything and this is our reward?" as the ever angry child rejects them.

How often fo I feel a vicarious joy when I see a parent splashing through the puddles, or having a gentle snowball fight with their kids, or inventing stories with them . . . That is when I cry.

How angry do I feel when a young girl, beautifully dressed and coiffured, standing at a gate asks, "Will you talk to me?" as I pass. I, of course, cannot as a single male stranger of (then) 54? My strong need to answer her need and having to refuse it (mostly for my own protection) invokes anger in me still.

This is a kind of repression that was only balanced by being given a baby and her bottle to hold in perfecf trust, then turning the Argos catalogue toy section into a story with "morals". "Look, that girl had ten teddies, do you think she is lucky or just greedy?" then discussing those two qualities in a light way. I think, "Would you rather have one toy and a hundred hugs or a hundred toys and one hug?" might have got in there as well in some form.
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Dark Lightning

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2017, 12:34:21 AM »
That was a tough read, Dave, and a lot tougher to live through, methinks. :hug: Sorry to see that this happened.

AngelOfDeath

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2017, 02:11:00 AM »
 How does a person know if there is no memory of the actual events?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 11:25:27 PM by AngelOfDeath »

Sandra Craft

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2017, 03:54:13 AM »
Going back to your original post:
Quote
There is a well known saying, "Forgive and forget". Another goes, "Time cures all". Neither are relevant to victims of child abuse. You can never forget, the results live with you, conciously or unconciously, every day of your life, waking or sleeping.

This touches on something that has always ground my gears -- the easy and facile way too many people dismiss any abuse, including childhood abuse.  One also hears "just get over it", "concentrate on the positive" and, my personal dis-favorite, "pretend it didn't happen".  This all too often said to people who were not only abused as children but often had to actually live with their abusers for years.

I'm thankful most people these days know better than to say such things to soldiers with PTSD (tho it took long enough), I just wish they'd pick up a clue when it comes to child abuse.  I understand that part of it comes from feeling uncomfortable about the subject and wanting to get away from it as quickly as possible, but it seems to me a few seconds of applied thought should yield a more sympathetic get-away line that that.
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Magdalena

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2017, 05:59:52 AM »
...
"concentrate on the positive"
...

"Concentrate on the positive, at least you didn't get pregnant."


Dave

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2017, 06:45:22 AM »
this is pure curiosity so don't take it the wrong way.  How does a person know they were sexually abused if there is no memory of the actual events?

Not going to go into detail on this, PM me if you like, but there are typical "symptoms" that are indicative. For a long time I did not link these to certain memories, as decsribed, nor understand why those mrmories were so important. It was not until I was sbout 40 that things started linking, for no apparent reason - in those days child abuse was not something discussed openly.

When there was more public discussion of the effects I could tick boxes from my own experience. I was very careful to be sure that what memories there were came first, thst they were not false. There is always a chance that the remembered actions of the priest were entirely innocent, I think I used the term "circumstantial" before, if I did not it applies. As I said, I am of an analytical nature, can remember taking things spart, to "see how they worked" from a very early age. I am well aware of the "false memory syndrome", my memories are like snapshots, not really detailed, though constant in what detail there is. From what I understand FMS centres on a traumatic, but false, event, there is no such single event in my memory, just peripheral ones. But, when "grooming" was defined, publically, not so long ago, they fell into that slot and fitted very well.

But, deep down, there is a child that is still hurt and confused and never stops asking questions. You can learn to live with it, if you are "lucky", but you are also always aware of it, as aware as a sufferer of, say, a seriously arthritic knee that is beyond normal pain relief. Keep the joint still, or your mind occupied, and it fades into the background, only to flare at the smallest excuse.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Dave

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2017, 01:00:34 PM »
If anyone should want to read further about the subject the following, not too long, paper covers it quite well. I think the only aspect missing is a mention of high-risk activity: climbing, caving etc, and taking extra, maybe unnecessary, risks within those activities. They cannot list the mix of symptoms, within the psychological/behavioural groups, that might be unique to the individual. This is a generalisation of the situation, needs a whole book to cover it in detail!

https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/effects-child-abuse-and-neglect-adult-survivors
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hermes2015

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2017, 01:14:35 PM »
If anyone should want to read further about the subject the following, not too long, paper covers it quite well. I think the only aspect missing is a mention of high-risk activity: climbing, caving etc, and taking extra, maybe unnecessary, risks within those activities. They cannot list the mix of symptoms, within the psychological/behavioural groups, that might be unique to the individual. This is a generalisation of the situation, needs a whole book to cover it in detail!

https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/effects-child-abuse-and-neglect-adult-survivors

Dave, I tried it, but the link does not work for me.

Dave

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2017, 01:42:38 PM »
If anyone should want to read further about the subject the following, not too long, paper covers it quite well. I think the only aspect missing is a mention of high-risk activity: climbing, caving etc, and taking extra, maybe unnecessary, risks within those activities. They cannot list the mix of symptoms, within the psychological/behavioural groups, that might be unique to the individual. This is a generalisation of the situation, needs a whole book to cover it in detail!

https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/effects-child-abuse-and-neglect-adult-survivors

Dave, I tried it, but the link does not work for me.

Hmm, still works for me even off your quotation. Can't think why an Aussie doc like this eould be blocked - let's see if another route works.

Try putting the following into your search engine and pick the one titled "Effects of child abuse and neglect for adult survivors"

CFCA Resource Sheet— January 2014
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hermes2015

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2017, 02:24:42 PM »
If anyone should want to read further about the subject the following, not too long, paper covers it quite well. I think the only aspect missing is a mention of high-risk activity: climbing, caving etc, and taking extra, maybe unnecessary, risks within those activities. They cannot list the mix of symptoms, within the psychological/behavioural groups, that might be unique to the individual. This is a generalisation of the situation, needs a whole book to cover it in detail!

https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/effects-child-abuse-and-neglect-adult-survivors

Dave, I tried it, but the link does not work for me.

Hmm, still works for me even off your quotation. Can't think why an Aussie doc like this eould be blocked - let's see if another route works.

Try putting the following into your search engine and pick the one titled "Effects of child abuse and neglect for adult survivors"

CFCA Resource Sheet— January 2014

Thanks. For some reason it suddenly started working. Must have been a temporary glitch in my connection.

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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2017, 11:41:01 PM »
The link works for me.

Thanks for posting it, Dave. I think it's important to gain understanding why some people who have gone through abuse and neglect (a form of emotional abuse?) behave the way they do.
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Re: Living with the results of abuse.
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2017, 02:27:08 AM »
...
"concentrate on the positive"
...

"Concentrate on the positive, at least you didn't get pregnant."

Exactly.  "It could have been worse", etc., while technically true, is neither comforting nor helpful.
Sandy

  
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