Do you miss Saddam Hussein?

[Recusant]

I think life was not so good for non-Sunni/baathist groups - ask the "Marsh Arabs". But he did have a modern liberal attitude towards women (ofvthe right denomination or bank account size).

Sykes and Picot had a thankless job of trying to forge one country out of a mess of tribal warlords, the West tried the same thing in Afghanistan and most Asian and African countries with, historically, somewhat less than 100% success. Saudi Arabia had a natuve sttong and cgarismatuc over-lord who united the country. Having achieved a DIY job there it worked better.

Much of today's violence in thought and action against us from the Near/Middle East and Africa is due to the (European) West's imperial policies. Then the US added in their pennyworth and made all kinds of enemies for themselves. None of them seemed to be able to recognise and really utilise the local mindset and tried to force centuries of deeply instilled tradition and thought into a modern democratic mindset. They are still making the same mistakes IMHO.

Sorry, just realise I ranted on and reiterated much of what you said, Icarus! 

Thank you for the subtle correction, Dave. I've been making the mistake of referring to the Marsh Arabs as "Swamp Arabs" for years, and haven't yet managed to always use the correct term, even after reading about them and watching a couple of documentaries about them. 

[Magdalena]

I get my info from wikipedia.

I just wonder though I honestly do.

Saddam did not have a great track record for world peace. He was definitly in the league of Pol Pot in terms of Human rights abuses.

What would he have done if he was left to continue? Just be a big meanie as always?

Are you serious?
Recusant just gave you a 151 page report. That should keep you busy for a while. 

~I think you're just trolling.

[Dave]

I think life was not so good for non-Sunni/baathist groups - ask the "Marsh Arabs". But he did have a modern liberal attitude towards women (ofvthe right denomination or bank account size).

Sykes and Picot had a thankless job of trying to forge one country out of a mess of tribal warlords, the West tried the same thing in Afghanistan and most Asian and African countries with, historically, somewhat less than 100% success. Saudi Arabia had a natuve sttong and cgarismatuc over-lord who united the country. Having achieved a DIY job there it worked better.

Much of today's violence in thought and action against us from the Near/Middle East and Africa is due to the (European) West's imperial policies. Then the US added in their pennyworth and made all kinds of enemies for themselves. None of them seemed to be able to recognise and really utilise the local mindset and tried to force centuries of deeply instilled tradition and thought into a modern democratic mindset. They are still making the same mistakes IMHO.

Sorry, just realise I ranted on and reiterated much of what you said, Icarus! 

Thank you for the subtle correction, Dave. I've been making the mistake of referring to the Marsh Arabs as "Swamp Arabs" for years, and haven't yet managed to always use the correct term, even after reading about them and watching a couple of documentaries about them. 

I think I first "met" a mention of the Marsh Arabs in Gavin Maxwell's "Ring of Bright Water".  One day I will read his , "A reed shaken by the wind". Very strange man in some ways, Maxwell.

PS: just bought the Kindle version of, "A reed shaken by the wind"

[Ecurb Noselrub]

He kept Iran at bay.  When we removed him, it allowed Iran to grow in power.  An argument can be made that the world (not Iraq, but the rest of us) were better off with him.  He was a nasty guy, but apparently that's valuable in the ME. 

[SisterAgatha]

Based on what I have read (including from your fellow atheist Chris Hitchens) I will try to give the "pro-war" side of the story.

Saddam did not do 9/11 but he showed an unrepentant hostility for the west ever since the Gulf war truce happened (the Gulf war technically never ended until Saddam crawled away to his spider hole.)

He tried to murder Bush senior (GWB's daddy true, but still a former president of the US of A!),was a big sponsor of the second intifadah (Palestinaiins blowing themselves up at Jews) and repeatedly tried to shoot down American and British planes in the no fly zones. Coincidentally those no fly zones were the only thing stopping him from committing a massive genocide against Kurds or shiiites. Read sometime about how he repressed the 1991 revolts abasing him!

To those who say WMD were bunk that is only partially true. He apparently had a massive WMD stockpile and program through the 80s and up until the Gulf war including some nasty stuff! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_biological_weapons_program

The main reason he did not have the weapons Bush said he did was because of the massive UN sanctions (unreplicated today) and the devastation following the first Gulf War. From what I understand, Hussein wanted to restart the program after the sanctions were lifted, and already had the scientists and blue prints ready to make them again.

To those who say Saddam had no connection to terrorism, you are sadly mistaken. Saddam played host to several major terrorists (including one of the original bombers of WTC in '93.) Look up Abu Nidal. He was the FBI's most wanted terrorist before Bin Laden came on the scene.

Saddam had  extensive ties to terror groups, but Al-Qaeda was not one of them. It was mostly Shia extremists he disliked, and Sunni ones he was fine using and financing so long as they carried out his aims.

The whole "Secular Saddam" thing is a bit overplayed. Some say ISIS is just a natural outgrowth of his regime https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/23/opinion/how-saddam-hussein-gave-us-isis.html

[Recusant]

To those who say Saddam had no connection to terrorism, you are sadly mistaken.

I don't recall anybody here saying that, SisterAgatha.

[SisterAgatha]

It's just so difficult to impinge him still being alive and in control.

I find it unlikely he'd be "tamed" and become like Muammar Qadaffi.

I think he finally would be assassinated and the whole country would go to Hell anyway.

By the standard of bad leaders he was defiantly a problem child.

Its my big "what if" of history. What would have happened if he hadn't been deposed almost 12 years after being kicked out of Kuwait?

[No one]

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

[Dave]

It's just so difficult to impinge him still being alive and in control.
...

"Impinge" 

Gadafi "tame"   

Your crap gets crappier by the day Sister Troll.

[Dave]

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

Or in a circus.