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"Reasoning and Thoughts"

Started by susangail, March 24, 2008, 05:16:01 AM

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susangail

Someone I know on myspace posted this on their blog. He's a very strong Christian but he's normally not obnoxious about it. Well he posted his opinions on certain issues and asked what people thought about it. I was going to post my views, but he knows me as a Christian and I'm not ready to get into all that yet. (I'm a chicken...)


WAR

War IS ugly, but words don’t solve everything.  Just look at the pre-WWII negotiations.  As long as there is sin there will be war.  So don’t waste your time.


IRAQ

 First of all, we must consider why did we go to war against German during WWII?  After all, it was Japan that attacked us.  It was most likely because they were against our allies, they were a threat, and they had a dictorial tyrant running their country.  Sound fimiliar?  This is why we went to war against Iraq.  Just like in WWII, problems in Iraq today are left over from a previous war in Iraq(1991).  We should have finished the job during our first fight with Sadaam.  Also, Al Queda declared war on America and it’s allies back in 92’  So, they pretty much started the fight.  We never harmed them and yet on 9/11 they decided to provoke us.  You may not know this but Sadaam is responsible for over 2 million deaths. He used chemical weapons to achieve his goals, and I think that is the terrorist in Iraq may have gotten their hand on these weapons, it could spell disaster for America.  The only fault I find with Bush is that I don’t think he used enough force.  For me the surge came way too late.  Reports today indicate that the surge IS working.  Al Queda is on the run all over Iraq.  The only problem is thieir unstable goverment.  You need to understand that you can’t create a new nation in just 5 years, heck we didn’t even have a stable goverment till after the war of 1812, nearly 30 years after the revolutinon.  Ending I’ll say  PATIENCE, we are winning, give it time, and GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS!!!!


HOMOSEXUALITY

Well what can I say?  I have been recently presented with this issue in the liberal thoughts of one of my friends.  First of all, I am not homo-phoic nor do I hate these people.  I feel that they are every lost.  The Bible teaches that their way of life is in direct confritation with God’s original plan.  Off the top of my head there’s about four versus that are based upon this subject.  Leviticus 18:22, 1 Corithians 6:9, Romans 1:26,  1 Timothy 1:10.  Some versions of the Bible may include the words catamites or sodomites.  Catamite is pretty much just another name for homosexual; or it can describe a relationship between a boy and a man or a girl and a woman.  Now sodomy may be something you are fimiliar with.  The practice of sodomy is very perverse and is the only option that intimate homosexual couples have(if you know what I mean).  Yet there is good news.  Christ died for them, just as he did for all sinners.  I just want people to understand what they are dealing with because ignorance is a killer.

 
ABORTION

It’s murder.  Every form of human life was designed by God, and ending that life is murder.  The mother may have some condition where if she has the baby, her life may be jeopardized.  In this case, I would say you would have to be one heck of a selfish person to choose your life over a baby’s life.  Maybe the mother can’t afford to have a baby.  Give it up to adoption.  We should never stoop so low that we are killing baby’s before they even have a chance to live.  I’ll be the first one to tell you that evey person born has a purpose, no matter how long they live.  Here’s a little evaluation.  A mother has tuberculosis, her husband has syphilis, her first born is blind, her second child died, her third child is deaf, and the fourth child has tuberculosis.  She is now pregant with a fifth child and considering abortion.  Would you advise her to abort the baby?  If you did, you would have just killed one of the greatest musicians ever...Beethoven.  Let’s give them a chance...



So I thought his arguments were interesting and I was wondering what you all thought: about his arguments, some good responses could be, and/or about the issues themselves.
When life gives you lemons, make orange juice and let the world wonder how you did it.

tacoma_kyle

#1
The Beethoven argument has been recycled a tone. I recall Dawkins outlined it in The God Delusion. I dont remember in exact, but I recall it fell along the lines of being stretched by a good amount, based off history. Possibly just a= metaphor or partial.

Iraq, I basically agree more than disagree (simply put).

Abortion-blow it out your ass. A cell is a cell.

Homosexuality-People can do whatever they fuck they want with themselves. Mutual agreement? Go for it!




Here is a counter abortion argument: You succeeded in brainwashing X number of people. If not, could one of them succeeded Einstein (so to speak)?

It works both ways. My way just didnt sound good because there is no 'record' of such. Aside from Einstein certainly NOT being religious.
Me, my projects and random pictures, haha.

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o22/tacoma_kyle/

"Tom you gotta come out of the closet, oh my gawd!" lol

SteveS

#2
Here's my two cents on the abortion issue:

QuoteEvery form of human life was designed by God, and ending that life is murder.
Yikes - okay, so does this guy eat?  Everything he eats, animals or plants, would qualify as a living thing, and ending the life thereof would qualify as murder.  What a strange view.

Quotehe mother may have some condition where if she has the baby, her life may be jeopardized. In this case, I would say you would have to be one heck of a selfish person to choose your life over a baby's life.
So - bringing a motherless baby into the world is somehow better?  This is ridiculous --- a baby is a potential life.

QuoteMaybe the mother can't afford to have a baby. Give it up to adoption.
This sounds reasonable - I'm with him here.

QuoteWe should never stoop so low that we are killing baby's before they even have a chance to live.
I can't help but wonder if he's ever had a wet dream --- if so, did he just kill thousands of babies before they even had a chance to live?

QuoteA mother has tuberculosis, her husband has syphilis, her first born is blind, her second child died, her third child is deaf, and the fourth child has tuberculosis. She is now pregant with a fifth child and considering abortion. Would you advise her to abort the baby? If you did, you would have just killed one of the greatest musicians ever...Beethoven. Let's give them a chance...
This account is historically inaccurate, which is what Dawkins objected to.  There's plenty of biographical information out there about Beethoven, and this pregnancy is not accurately portrayed in this oft repeated and deeply flawed argument.  Dawkin's retort was that although you would have had no reason to abort the preganancy, in 1889, of Clara Hitler, had this pregnancy actually been aborted we would have saved the world from Adolf Hitler.

One final comment,

QuoteI just want people to understand what they are dealing with because ignorance is a killer.
Oh, physician, heal thyself!  :wink:

Will

#3
War: this will exist as long as there aren't enough resources to go around.
Iraq: Same
Homosexuality: if you quote bible verses about gay people you're a homophobe.
Abortion: It might be murder, but I can't bring myself to say that because it *might* be murder that a woman should lose the power to make life altering decisions about her child, the child inside her.

The Beethoven thing always makes me laugh. It's an appeal to consequences fallacy. One could just as easily ask "what if Hitler had been aborted?"
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

jrosebud

#4
Homosexuality:  The Bible also forbids things like eating shellfish in Leviticus.  Apparently, that rule is out, but the one about homosexuality is still in...

One question: can animals sin?  There are *many* species that have documented cases of homosexual experimentation and life partners.  Arguing that it's unnatural (which your xian friend is not) is bunk.

Also, there is nothing in the Bible that discourages Lesbian sex.  As it doesn't waste semen (sing with me now: "Every sperm is sacred.  Every sperm is great.  If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate."), God doesn't care.  Or, at least, he doesn't include it in *the Word.*

Why waste time solving real problems when you can fret over what two consenting adults do with their own bodies?  Silly Christian.
"Every post you can hitch your faith on
Is a pie in the sky,
Chock full of lies,
A tool we devise
To make sinking stones fly."

~from A Comet Apears by The Shins

tacoma_kyle

#5
Montey Python fuckin rocks!

I cant ever get enough of 'I'll bite your head off!' Was it head? Leg? I dont remember but hilarious!
Me, my projects and random pictures, haha.

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o22/tacoma_kyle/

"Tom you gotta come out of the closet, oh my gawd!" lol

susangail

#6
Here's what I think...

WAR: War is ugly, however necessary at some times. I don't feel this war is necessary. We were led to believe that the invasion of Iraq had something to do with 9/11. I've done a lot of research and from what I've read, they had nothing to do with it.  Intelligence found no evidence of WMD (which was another reason they said we were going over there). Now I am seeing that we went over there to over throw a bad dictator. Okay, I do admit that Saddam was a horrible man who abused human rights. However, human rights abuses (as horrible as they are) are no reason to start a war. Hitler was a different situation. He was killing millions, we had to get involved and we were almost too late.

HOMOSEXUALITY: The only argument given here is that the Bible says it's wrong. the verses in the Old Testament aren't usable for this argument because they are from the Law of Moses and that law is not valid anymore as said in the New Testament (by Paul I believe, in Romans). And the New Testament arguments are, in my opinion, mistranslations. In the original Greek, it never uses the word 'homosexual' but in SOME English translations, it does. The man-to-man activity it talks about could be many things other than homosexuality. I also wonder that if homosexuality is such a horrible 'sin' than why didn't Jesus even mention it? (hmm...)

ABORTION: Like most Christians, the argument that ending a life given by God is murder. The aborted 'life' is not an actual life but a potential for one. Should a woman risk her life for a potential life? That should be her choice. If the mother and father both have diseases that could be passed on to a child, is it fair to give life to a child that could live its years agony and perhaps have their life cut short (such as a child born with AIDS)? Personally, if I had HIV/AIDS and I was pregnant, I would abort the baby(though I've heard they have some sort of treatment that can help prevent the child from getting it, but it was just an example). I don't like the idea of abortion as birth control however(though rape and incest is completely understandable). I don't think aborting a baby out of inconvenience is a good reason. Adoption is always an option.


I am only 15 so I may not know enough to understand completely, but I still like to have my own opinion  :D
When life gives you lemons, make orange juice and let the world wonder how you did it.