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Religion => Religion => Topic started by: AngelOfDeath on December 14, 2017, 06:20:57 PM

Title: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 14, 2017, 06:20:57 PM
Just some quick thoughts to throw out there.



-I don't much like the bible.  One problem with it and why it's so easy for xtians to find a bible verse for about every one of life's situations is simply because there is so much content to it.  It just goes on and on and on.  I'm also not a fan of how matthew, luke, and mark all read nearly identically.  Isn't it like the same thing repeated 3 times?


Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Magdalena on December 14, 2017, 09:36:38 PM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 14, 2017, 06:20:57 PM
Just some quick thoughts to throw out there.

-I really don't like the human species in general
-I don't believe in forgiving or 'turning the other cheek'
-in a practical sense I don't have a problem with abortion even though I think it's disgusting
-in a practical sense I also don't have a problem with eugenics.  I might even be a supporter of it.
-I don't much like the bible.  One problem with it and why it's so easy for xtians to find a bible verse for about every one of life's situations is simply because there is so much content to it.  It just goes on and on and on.  I'm also not a fan of how matthew, luke, and mark all read nearly identically.  Isn't it like the same thing repeated 3 times?
-I already mentioned this before:  I hate xmas, and the holiday season in general

I'll add more items as I think of them.  The list of reason to not be a xtian is gonna be a lot longer than reasons for it

(https://media.giphy.com/media/Hq4DYXhDkEvHW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Magdalena on December 14, 2017, 09:37:23 PM
 :notsure: I think this is an excellent opportunity to take advantage of the: Add To Ignore List Option, and the, Hide messages posted by members on my ignore list.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Biggus Dickus on December 15, 2017, 03:25:17 AM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 14, 2017, 06:20:57 PM
Just some quick thoughts to throw out there.

-I really don't like the human species in general
-I don't believe in forgiving or 'turning the other cheek'
-in a practical sense I don't have a problem with abortion even though I think it's disgusting
-in a practical sense I also don't have a problem with eugenics.  I might even be a supporter of it.
-I don't much like the bible.  One problem with it and why it's so easy for xtians to find a bible verse for about every one of life's situations is simply because there is so much content to it.  It just goes on and on and on.  I'm also not a fan of how matthew, luke, and mark all read nearly identically.  Isn't it like the same thing repeated 3 times?
-I already mentioned this before:  I hate xmas, and the holiday season in general

I'll add more items as I think of them.  The list of reason to not be a xtian is gonna be a lot longer than reasons for it

I don't understand, you say you don't have a problem with abortion, yet you find it disgusting?

I personally believe that abortion care is a positive social good, and I also think it's time more people said so and announced themselves to be not only pro-choice, but pro-abortion which is my public stance on the issue.





Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 15, 2017, 07:48:18 AM


The procedure itself is rather ... uh, unappetizing.  Ever see the alien movies?

Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: No one on December 15, 2017, 12:53:42 PM
It's one thing to speak freely, and rustle the plumage of some delicate little dove. It is entirely something different to purposely choose the language of an intolerant, narrow minded asshat!
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Biggus Dickus on December 15, 2017, 02:01:01 PM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 15, 2017, 07:48:18 AM
Quote from: Papasito Bruno on December 15, 2017, 03:25:17 AM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 14, 2017, 06:20:57 PM
Just some quick thoughts to throw out there.

-I really don't like the human species in general
-I don't believe in forgiving or 'turning the other cheek'
-in a practical sense I don't have a problem with abortion even though I think it's disgusting
-in a practical sense I also don't have a problem with eugenics.  I might even be a supporter of it.
-I don't much like the bible.  One problem with it and why it's so easy for xtians to find a bible verse for about every one of life's situations is simply because there is so much content to it.  It just goes on and on and on.  I'm also not a fan of how matthew, luke, and mark all read nearly identically.  Isn't it like the same thing repeated 3 times?
-I already mentioned this before:  I hate xmas, and the holiday season in general

I'll add more items as I think of them.  The list of reason to not be a xtian is gonna be a lot longer than reasons for it

I don't understand, you say you don't have a problem with abortion, yet you find it disgusting?

I personally believe that abortion care is a positive social good, and I also think it's time more people said so and announced themselves to be not only pro-choice, but pro-abortion which is my public stance on the issue.

The procedure itself is rather ... uh, unappetizing.  Ever see the alien movies?

Anyway I won't go too deep into my views on it right now--don't feel like being called a nazi and a racist, lol.  And mag might come unglued and start pulling her hair out if she read it.  Maybe one day we'll get into a good discussiion about it

Almost any surgical procedure would seem "unappetizing" to those not accustomed to such sights. Both my children were born via C-Section. I missed the first birth of my daughter unfortunately, but was there in the operating room for my sons birth...usually they don't bring the father's in until just before they actually remove the baby from the uterus, but our doctor was kind enough to allow me to observe practically the entire procedure starting with the incision into the abdomen, then the incision into the uterus, followed by one into amniotic sac ...I imagine someone who is not used to seeing such things would find it unsettling to say the least. I was on the other hand enthralled with the entire procedure, especially when they pulled my beautiful boy from my wife's uterus.

I'll tell you what is disgusting...ever see what a piece of lead shrapnel can do to a human body, or an IED? Some bullshit "Alien" movie ain't got nothing on that....my thought is you've probably never witness an abortion first hand anyway, so why even portray the procedure as disgusting in the first place?

Anyway you don't need to respond to this.




Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 15, 2017, 06:07:34 PM
Quote from: No one on December 15, 2017, 12:53:42 PM
It's one thing to speak freely, and rustle the plumage of some delicate little dove. It is entirely something different to purposely choose the language of an intolerant, narrow minded asshat!

who is the delicate little dove?
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 15, 2017, 06:11:20 PM


Well, regardless of IEDs (I'm thinking you're a combat veteran?), abortion is the ending of a human life.  A lot you probably get hung up on "the definition of a viable human life" or some such thing.  It is what it is, and it is killing.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Tank on December 15, 2017, 07:35:45 PM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 15, 2017, 06:11:20 PM
... A lot you probably get hung up on "the definition of a viable human life" or some such thing.  It is what it is, and it is killing.
Well as you're a man and will never have to face bringing a dependent parasite into the world your opinion is moot. And you don't have kids so you don't have a clue what it's like, you really don't. While all abortions are failures in some form or another until they are considered the woman's choice, and hers alone, women will never have the body autonomy enjoyed by men. Equality can not happen until then. And regards you not making a good Christian you could have fooled me. Mike pence would be proud of your opinion. You need to learn to walk in other peoples shoes if you are to become a better human being.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 15, 2017, 09:00:40 PM
It's just the cards they are dealt from birth...
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Bad Penny II on December 16, 2017, 01:00:19 AM
I don't think abortion is very nice, I wouldn't recommend it as a contraception method.
As I understand it the fetus is vacuumed out and disposed of as medical waste usually is.
I think there are strong arguments for both sides, even if they are emotional.
I fall on the accepting it side of things, I won't use the word "pro" in this instance.
To tell someone they have to grow a thing inside them, accept damage, that offends me.
Of course the male right to a opinion is limited, though if you are a male in your child making years, do your best not to cause an unwanted pregnancy.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Icarus on December 16, 2017, 07:06:35 AM
I think that we could get into a spirited argument about the worth of Planned Parenthood.  I must refrain from the exchange because I am a stubbornly dedicated ZPG guy.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 16, 2017, 07:32:51 AM
 Everything is coercion in this system.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 16, 2017, 07:35:23 AM
I'm a big fan
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 16, 2017, 01:42:51 PM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 16, 2017, 07:32:51 AM
I'm sure we've all been out and about and seen folks and thought to ourselves "oh boy, I really hope they don't breed", or you've seen terrible little children and wished they'd been aborted.  If you've ever felt this way you might be a fan of eugenics.

and

QuoteIt's all about building a better humanity and better society.

Yeah, sure. In case you were drooling on your school table during your history lessons, the Nazis (in relatively recent history!) wanted to better their society by killing off a lot of people they thought were less than human, you know.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Tank on December 16, 2017, 01:55:15 PM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 16, 2017, 07:32:51 AM
...  If you've ever felt this way you might be a fan of eugenics.  ...
I wasn't, but the idea is becoming attractive.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 16, 2017, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: Tank on December 16, 2017, 01:55:15 PM
Quote from: AngelOfDeath on December 16, 2017, 07:32:51 AM
...  If you've ever felt this way you might be a fan of eugenics.  ...
I wasn't, but the idea is becoming attractive.

:snicker:
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 17, 2017, 11:56:27 PM

Why not make the science better in any way we can?
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 18, 2017, 12:02:11 AM
Too bad Jesus didn't leave us with anything to go on.....
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2017, 12:45:35 AM
Dude, I like science. I studied biology at uni. I am not a fan of eugenics. Quite frankly, I find your assertion that "If you're as big of fan of science and biology as I am it isn't a big leap to become a fan of eugenics" nonsensical.

It's an ethical issue, not a scientific one.

(It's almost like you're the caricature creationists refer to when they say that "Darwinism" will result in things like "Social Darwinism", which supports eugenics.)
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 18, 2017, 01:12:30 AM

It's got a bad rep from the ways it's been implemented in the past.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2017, 01:19:36 AM
And who gets to decide who gets to breed or not? You? People who think like you?

What happens if you yourself are put on the list of those who should forcibly commit genetic suicide?
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 18, 2017, 01:36:46 AM
 these are all questions that'd have to be addressed.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2017, 02:02:15 AM
Genetic diversity is a good thing, which is one reason why it seems like such a dumb idea to cull a population's genetic potential.* Human beings already have little genetic diversity compared to many other animals, most likely due to a near extinction which resulted in a genetic bottleneck in the past. We (obviously) didn't go down an extinction vortex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_vortex) then, and now with our very large global population such an event seems unlikely, but should something happen in the future to drastically lessen our numbers, well, who knows...   

* For instance, sickle cell anemia in Africa. People who are heterozygotic (have one allele out of two) for this hereditary condition survive malaria better than people who have normal red blood cells. Their red blood cells have an odd shape. This is not a 'normal' state, and these peoples' red blood cells carry less oxygen which make them more vulnerable to hipoxia, but while the person with normal red blood cells is getting infected with malaria, those with sickle cell anemia are surviving and passing on their genes.

(https://myhealth.alberta.ca/Health/_layouts/15/healthwise/media/medical/hw/h5551158.jpg)




I think you simplify the issue too much, then come waving an easy solution to the what you see as the problem. Let's just not let the intellectually and physically able, those with genetic defects, those that don't look a certain way, etc. pass on their genes in any shape or form for the betterment of society. You see yourself as one who gets to decide how to better society even though you have no clue as to what really constitutes a healthier society, as if having a higher frequency of intelligence genes in a population would solve a crisis. You base your assumptions on evolutionary theory but you are ignorant in the science.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 18, 2017, 02:22:33 AM


I'm not at all ignorant of the science.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2017, 03:08:27 PM
Can't reply to this now, I'm at the lab and don't feel like typing a lengthy reply on my cellphone, but will do so later.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2017, 06:16:24 PM
Ok, let's do this. *cracks knuckles*

You consider yourself to be knowledgeable yet you do not seem to know what fitness is. Either you haven't been doing your homework or haven't been paying attention.

Recusant posted the following on your evolution thread:

Quote from: Recusant on December 18, 2017, 12:32:12 AM
All that evolution requires is a population of organisms that are fit enough to reproduce. In the case of the human species, perfect recovery from injury by individual organisms is superfluous to requirements.

QuoteIn evolutionary terms, fitness has a very different meaning than the everyday meaning of the word. An organism's evolutionary fitness does not indicate its health, but rather its ability to get its genes into the next generation.

[source (https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#b5)]

If you click on that little source at the bottom, you will be taken to the following:

QuoteMISCONCEPTION: The fittest organisms in a population are those that are strongest, healthiest, fastest, and/or largest.

CORRECTION: In evolutionary terms, fitness has a very different meaning than the everyday meaning of the word. An organism's evolutionary fitness does not indicate its health, but rather its ability to get its genes into the next generation. The more fertile offspring an organism leaves in the next generation, the fitter it is. This doesn't always correlate with strength, speed, or size. For example, a puny male bird with bright tail feathers might leave behind more offspring than a stronger, duller male, and a spindly plant with big seed pods may leave behind more offspring than a larger specimen — meaning that the puny bird and the spindly plant have higher evolutionary fitness than their stronger, larger counterparts.

which is followed by

QuoteMISCONCEPTION: Natural selection is about survival of the very fittest individuals in a population.

CORRECTION: Though "survival of the fittest" is the catchphrase of natural selection, "survival of the fit enough" is more accurate. In most populations, organisms with many different genetic variations survive, reproduce, and leave offspring carrying their genes in the next generation. It is not simply the one or two "best" individuals in the population that pass their genes on to the next generation. This is apparent in the populations around us: for example, a plant may not have the genes to flourish in a drought, or a predator may not be quite fast enough to catch her prey every time she is hungry. These individuals may not be the "fittest" in the population, but they are "fit enough" to reproduce and pass their genes on to the next generation.



In my post in this thread, I mentioned sickle cell anemia (with a picture and everything  ::)). PEOPLE WITH THIS PHENOTYPE ARE NOT HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS! But...BUT! They are fitter than people without this condition in areas with high rates of malaria infection because they have higher survival rates and make more babies and the frequency of sickle cell anemia in that population grows.

Sexual selection too. Do you think for instance, that a peacock's massive colourful tail helps him survive? Of course not. It helps him get laid and pass on his genes. The bigger and brighter a peacock's tail, the fitter he is, even if such a thing makes it more difficult to escape from predators.

Now that you hopefully have a somewhat clearer idea of what fitness is in the evolutionary sense is, you could comment on why you think selective pressures are not acting on modern human beings, a bit more knowledgeably.

You keep mentioning how you think the population (in general) is becoming a lower IQ society, but have you ever heard of the Flynn Effect? Intelligence is a complex, multifactorial inheritance process that is not yet completely understood, but IQ tests have to be adjusted by around 15 points every generation or so, so that the average remains 100 points. So no, the population in general is not getting dumber, it is getting smarter...or at least people are better able to take IQ tests.

I suggest you educate yourself on multifactorial inheritance.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on December 18, 2017, 06:42:50 PM
A more Machiavellian observation would be that IF people are getting dumber then it will be easier for the intelligent to rise to the top, to acquire political power, and to accumulate wealth.  The dumb will be their servants.  I'm inclined to think that people are not getting dumber IQ-wise, but if they are, that benefits me.  The actual problem, I think, is that people are not being taught to think critically, so they are more likely to be manipulated by new forms of propaganda and subliminal persuasion. 
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: xSilverPhinx on December 18, 2017, 09:15:12 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 18, 2017, 06:42:50 PM
A more Machiavellian observation would be that IF people are getting dumber then it will be easier for the intelligent to rise to the top, to acquire political power, and to accumulate wealth.  The dumb will be their servants.  I'm inclined to think that people are not getting dumber IQ-wise, but if they are, that benefits me.

I think Dumb Trump sort of refutes that. :lol: The US hardly seems a technocracy...

QuoteThe actual problem, I think, is that people are not being taught to think critically, so they are more likely to be manipulated by new forms of propaganda and subliminal persuasion.

I think that's one of the problems. Critical thinking is hard, it requires energy, and sometimes it's just easier to swallow whatever pre-chewed filth you're fed.
Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: Icarus on December 19, 2017, 01:28:41 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on December 18, 2017, 06:42:50 PM
.  The actual problem, I think, is that people are not being taught to think critically, so they are more likely to be manipulated by new forms of propaganda and subliminal persuasion.

Bruce, critical thinking is one of the keys to our eventual survival.  Absence of the propensity for critical thinking is too often equated with diminished mental capacity.  I do not think that diminished capacity is the case.  Almost all of the ...fill in the blanks for certain societies... Rural Alabama, Arkansas, or whatever isolated society that you choose.....ignorant hillbillies, are more than capable of analytical thought. Their brains are intact, their societal influences influence their manner of thinking.  They have been conditioned to believe in whatever the local community chooses to believe whether rational, practical, true, or not. 

It is a great philosophical dilemma to decide whether or not we, who believe ourselves to be more rational, are our brothers keepers, or obligated shephards.

Title: Re: reasons I likely won't make a good Xtian
Post by: AngelOfDeath on December 19, 2017, 05:06:39 AM
realistically, though,  I don't give that much thought to  it