Are Christian Morals Superior?

[Asherah]

Over the weekend, I was talking with my mom, who is a very strong Christian. We were talking about morals. I tried to tell her that I don't need god to be moral and I don't need Christianity. I know not to cheat on my husband. Why? Because I love him and I don't want to hurt him. Why don't I murder the next person who cuts me off in traffic? Because I would go to prison and more importantly, murder is wrong because I would be harming another human being. But, she said that I believe those things because I was raised with Christian morals. If I hadn't been raised with those morals, then who knows what I would think, she said.

She also basically argued that Christianity has brought about a great moral system in our world. Cultures who embrace Christianity....at least at some time in the past...are reaping the benefits of living by Christian morals. She points to cultures who never embraced Christianity, such as tribes in Africa and tribes in New Guinea, who have horrible tribal practices that are inhumane and cruel. She says they were never introduced to Christian morals and therefore, they are very backwards. She talked about how when the tribes in New Guinea were introduced to Christianity, they learned to forgive one another, instead of seeking revenge (usually murder), and these tribes were civilized and learned to live in peace with one another.

Europe, Scandinavia, America, etc. were all (at one time or another) heavily influenced by Christianity and so they are civilized societies operating under a moral code that helps them thrive. She said that America was founded by (mainly) Chrisitians. So, her point was that, Christian morals have changed the cultures in which most people have embraced Christianity.

When I say Christian morals, I'm talking about forgiveness, patience, kindness, self-control, selfless giving, charity, caring for orphans and widows, etc. If a Christian is living a good life, then they usually display these kinds of attributes...not always, but usually....at least in my experience. I have to admit that I didn't know how to respond. She is right that I am heavily influenced by Christian morality and I want to follow that moral code.

So, I was wondering out of those here who operate by a moral code that is good (what most consider good...not murdering, not committing adultery, giving to the poor, etc..), can you honestly say that there has been no Christian influence on you? No parent, Grandparent, Great Grandparent, friend, etc who influenced you or had at least in indirect influence?

In addition, I'm just curious if there are cultures who have a strong moral code that allows them to thrive as a society in which that society was not affected by Christianity? And, just interested in everyone's thoughts in general.

Note: If you bring up the Inquisition and the Crusades, please address the objection that those movements were politically motivated. Many Christians say that god had nothing to do with it.

[Stevil]

When I say Christian morals, I'm talking about forgiveness, patience, kindness, self-control, selfless giving, charity, caring for orphans and widows, etc.

Catholics are Christians.

Catholics believe it is immoral to:
- have IVF treatment
- live as a happily married gay couple
- for a happily married gay couple to adopt orphan children
- teach sex education
- use contraceptives
- advance science through stem cell research
- teach religious beliefs other that Catholicism
- divorce

Catholics believe women should not be priests, men within the church should not report to women.

[xSilverPhinx]

When I say Christian morals, I'm talking about forgiveness, patience, kindness, self-control, selfless giving, charity, caring for orphans and widows, etc. If a Christian is living a good life, then they usually display these kinds of attributes...not always, but usually....at least in my experience. I have to admit that I didn't know how to respond. She is right that I am heavily influenced by Christian morality and I want to follow that moral code.

I don't see why Christians have to have a monopoly on those, they're not specific to that religion. Other religions also stress that those are positive things.

So, I was wondering out of those here who operate by a moral code that is good (what most consider good...not murdering, not committing adultery, giving to the poor, etc..), can you honestly say that there has been no Christian influence on you? No parent, Grandparent, Great Grandparent, friend, etc who influenced you or had at least in indirect influence?

Sure, culture and Christinaity in the case of the Weestern world are really intertwined. Society and evolving culture also have an influence on religions and they in turn influence societies.  

In addition, I'm just curious if there are cultures who have a strong moral code that allows them to thrive as a society in which that society was not affected by Christianity? And, just interested in everyone's thoughts in general.

Smaller tribal groups linked by kinship (about 150-ish) can thrive in without the Big Brotherish side of religious morality. Nowadays the healthiest societies are among the most secular, and not the religious (which tend to be worse).

The main point is that Christianity does not have a monopoly on commonly percieved (and that provide a cultural/evolutionary advantage) "good" morals such as don't kill, don't steal, don't harm etc...

[The Magic Pudding]

Note: If you bring up the Inquisition and the Crusades, please address the objection that those movements were politically motivated. Many Christians say that god had nothing to do with it.

I'd agree god had nothing to do with it but Christianity did.  Thinking you do something for a higher power helps you overcome your squeamishness.  Gays, sorry we're vilifying you, but it's in the rules.  Teenage rape victim, you'll have to keep it, life is sacred.  We're not enslaving Africans the way we used to but it's been decreed god doesn't like condoms and parents die, too many children are born.  That's OK though because the church thrives when people suffer.

Christians may think their book is good, I don't think it's good enough.

[ThinkAnarchy]

When I say Christian morals, I'm talking about forgiveness, patience, kindness, self-control, selfless giving, charity, caring for orphans and widows, etc.

Catholics are Christians.

Catholics believe it is immoral to:
- have IVF treatment
- live as a happily married gay couple
- for a happily married gay couple to adopt orphan children
- teach sex education
- use contraceptives
- advance science through stem cell research
- teach religious beliefs other that Catholicism
- divorce

Catholics believe women should not be priests, men within the church should not report to women.

Also, aren't there Christians in many African countries, preventing the population from using condoms to help slow down the spread of Aids in that region?

Assuming that is correct, I wouldn't consider it to be the moral high ground here.

[Tank]

The issue is that God did not create the Bible nor write a single word in it. Any moral guidance that was in the Bible was created by the people/men who wrote it. Thus the moral guidance in the Bible was simply a codification and recording of what people felt was good/moral behaviour at the time.

There are things in the Bible, Slavery for example, that have been eradicated, or at least legislated against, in all civilised societies as human moral behaviour evolves.

While there are exceptions to what you and I would call acceptable behaviour there are many many tribes that behave in ways infinitely better than we do. An example would have been Tahiti when Columbus reached it. A veritable Eden destroyed by Christian teaching.

I was raised in a Christian environment. My Children were not. They are all fine examples of human beings. No superstition required. It appears that what is good survives in humans, or not, depending on the social norms they experience as a child.

Your Mum does have a point in that you were lucky enough to have been brought up in an environment that has produced a thoughtful person who respects others and does no harm. It just goes to show that the people who wrote the Bible did get some good stuff in and that the good has remained in many Christian teachings while the bad has mostly been discarded by most Christians.

[The Magic Pudding]

An example would have been Tahiti when Columbus reached it. A veritable Eden destroyed by Christian teaching.

"Caught between the twisted stars the plotted lines the faulty map
that brought Columbus to New York"

I like that song, it doesn't matter that CC never went to New York.
I suppose Barry Columbus may have gone to Tahiti and caused a ruckus?

I think I'm going to come off second best if people start requiring factual correctness from my posts, did you mean Cuba or Cook?

[Asmodean]

China and Japan are cool countries, and they are not Christian.

"Christian" morals are only superior when observed through christian glasses, just as "muslim" morals are superior to a muslim and my morals are by far superior to me.

[Tank]

An example would have been Tahiti when Columbus reached it. A veritable Eden destroyed by Christian teaching.

"Caught between the twisted stars the plotted lines the faulty map
that brought Columbus to New York"

I like that song, it doesn't matter that CC never went to New York.
I suppose Barry Columbus may have gone to Tahiti and caused a ruckus?

I think I'm going to come off second best if people start requiring factual correctness from my posts, did you mean Cuba or Cook?

Bugger! Cook Doh!

[Sweetdeath]

China and Japan are cool countries, and they are not Christian.

"Christian" morals are only superior when observed through christian glasses, just as "muslim" morals are superior to a muslim and my morals are by far superior to me.

This is how i feel. That a christian perspective is only a personal one; just like the typical christian's view of god only reflects their own personal beliefs.
I don't understand why they dont get that a Jewish person, Muslim , etc feels their own beliefs are correct, which is why no country should ever be forced to accept them.

I'm really sick of those brainwashed handing me meaningless pamphlets. It's annoying, nd insulting.
They dont know a thing about my life, but they want me to accept their beliefs? Piss off.
I'm sorry, but soliciting religion is fucking irritating and should be illegal. If your god is so great, you should let people be, and live your own damn lives without trying to convert everyone. Do it in private for fuck's sake.

Bringing up my annoying Catholic coworker Jessica. Her husband is muslim. For some reason, she felt the need to rant at me during lunch, saying "my husband really wants me to convert to Islam. He says 'i just want you to be able to enter paradise, honey...' "
So according to her husband, muslim.is the only true religion. She feels Catholics are right.
They are both dellussional idiots.

[Too Few Lions]

I was raised in a pretty Christian-free environment, and don't consider those values you speak of to be inherently Christian. Like others have said, plenty of other philosophies and religions have promoted the same values. Plus your mum is neglecting to mention certain less pleasant but still very inherent Christian values such as intolerance towards other faiths and non-believers. Europe (and subsequently the west) only became Christian because they outlawed the worship of any other god under the death sentence.

It's worth remembering that Europe wasn't the pleasant peace-loving tolerant continent it is today when Christianity ruled supreme, that was a time of intolerance, ignorance, witch hunts, pogroms and the afore mentioned inquisitions and crusades. I would argue Europe (and the west in general) has become the civilised advanced peaceful societies they are today in spite of Christianity, not because of it. Christianity ruled over 1300 of the most barbarous years in Europe's history. We began along our current path with the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, both of which challenged and eroded the power of the Church and the Bible. We can trace important core values of western society such as democracy, tolerance, reason, rationality and science back to ancient Greece and Rome rather than to Christianity.

[ThinkAnarchy]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the morality of circumcision on infant boys yet. The religions without morals cut off the clitoris, the religions with morals slice the foreskin and peel it back.

How can this practice be considered morally superior in todays society?

[Whitney]

Real christian morals are horrible...the watered down kind that liberal christians follow are okay but only because they were influence by cultural changes.

Any moral system that calls for doing good because if you don't you will be hurt isn't superior.

[Asherah]

There are things in the Bible, Slavery for example, that have been eradicated, or at least legislated against, in all civilised societies as human moral behaviour evolves.

I brought up this very thing to my mom and she said that biblical slavery wasn't cruel. They had slaves because the slaves had a debt to pay off and they treated the slaves decently. And, I said, "So, slavery is okay as long as the slave has a debt to pay and the owner treats them nice? Why don't we do that nowadays?" and she said, "Because people go and file bankruptcy." But, I should have really pressed her on that. Because, even if people couldn't file bankruptcy, we wouldn't keep slaves because forcing someone into slavery, no matter how "nice" the conditions might be, is wrong!!!

[Whitney]

There are things in the Bible, Slavery for example, that have been eradicated, or at least legislated against, in all civilised societies as human moral behaviour evolves.

I brought up this very thing to my mom and she said that biblical slavery wasn't cruel. They had slaves because the slaves had a debt to pay off and they treated the slaves decently. And, I said, "So, slavery is okay as long as the slave has a debt to pay and the owner treats them nice? Why don't we do that nowadays?" and she said, "Because people go and file bankruptcy." But, I should have really pressed her on that. Because, even if people couldn't file bankruptcy, we wouldn't keep slaves because forcing someone into slavery, no matter how "nice" the conditions might be, is wrong!!!

Also, indentured servitude is not the only form of slavery okayed by god in the bible.  It says it is also okay to take the virgin women from conquered tribes as wives and that's like sex slavery.  The general position of women in many parts of the bible is subservient to men and imo another form of slavery.